Post areas that need a second glance...

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
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Post areas that need a second glance...

Postby Gormal » Fri May 12, 2006 9:36 pm

Since dragon changes, beholder changes, psionicist changes, and Shev's underwear going without any changes; many fights/rewards still need a little tweaking. Here's a thread to post any you can think of.


I'll start:

Muspel dragon cavern rewards
Chlora armor
Infernos armor
Scour
Gythka/eel skin boots
Gith
Clouds dragon portal
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Postby Glorishan » Sat May 13, 2006 3:58 am

Gwark fight. Possibly Islie too.
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Postby Gukov » Wed May 17, 2006 12:08 am

This doesn't relate to object/rewards changes but it's certainly an area that needs to be looked over...

I've recently had the opportunity to spend a fair amount of time in drider caverns and have found it to be absolutely riddled with grammatical problems both in echos as well as descriptions. Normally I'd ignore something like this if the errors weren't so freaking abundant. Please run this zone through MS word or something so that it doesn't look like a 5th grader wrote it.

hugs and kisses,
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Postby Marthammor » Wed May 17, 2006 6:03 am

Problem with just loading a file up in word to check spelling and grammar is that all the spell checking and grammar checking stuff catches all the ansi codes as errors. The only real way to do it that I've found is to walk through the entire zone, cut and paste every description into word and check that way, which is really time consuming. When I first started out checking zones, I'd do this until people started complaining that I was taking too long to check over their zone, so I quit.

I've been meaning to try to put together some triggers to automatically stick stuff into word as I walk around, but just haven't done it yet.

Oh, and yeah, we'll check out those areas that were listed.
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Postby Disoputlip » Wed May 17, 2006 11:44 am

Yath Oloth: The dracolich fight simply isn't woth it.
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Postby Yasden » Wed May 17, 2006 12:09 pm

Marthammor wrote:Problem with just loading a file up in word to check spelling and grammar is that all the spell checking and grammar checking stuff catches all the ansi codes as errors. The only real way to do it that I've found is to walk through the entire zone, cut and paste every description into word and check that way, which is really time consuming. When I first started out checking zones, I'd do this until people started complaining that I was taking too long to check over their zone, so I quit.

I've been meaning to try to put together some triggers to automatically stick stuff into word as I walk around, but just haven't done it yet.

Oh, and yeah, we'll check out those areas that were listed.


From my experience, it was easier to proofread/spellcheck descriptions, THEN go back and add the ANSI to them. Of course, that only applies to the original implementation. What you could do is just set up a small zMUD alias (using the FOR option) to goto every room in a particular range, and in each room do a "look room" or even stat each one to catch the extra descriptions. Then you can just take that log and open it in Word. The same could be applied to .mob .obj .soc and .qst too, using the right stat commands I'm sure. :)
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Postby Marthammor » Wed May 17, 2006 1:19 pm

Personally I write everything I do in word then copy/paste it into the proper file because I just suck at spelling and grammar :P.
Not everyone has word though so they often do their writing in notepad or worse yet, TE. *shiver*
Making up an alias/triggers/whatever to check stuff is on my list to do, it just always seems to get bumped down, hehe.

As for the above mentioned areas, all those have had tweaks done to them so hopefully the risk/reward is on par now. If not, report back and we'll do some more tweaking. I dunno if there will be a news entry with them when they are put in, but I'll try to get one to let you guys know.
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Postby Malia » Thu May 18, 2006 8:22 am

Lets see a couple of areas that i have done and think the rewards need to be reworked.

Lizardmarsh: Zone was alot of fun great idea and good smitting along the way. You can find better rewards rolling a noob and doing quest in scarsdale. Rewards ansi is cool just utter junk that no one would even remotly wear. Love to see the items just get reworked and even be on par with say Ohp, or Tower of the elementalist, or something similar, the end fight is a freaking lich after all.

Clouds: Clouds was one of the best zones till eq changes. Its done now just for 2 items basicly, storm and an item for a quest. Over half the zone is skipped because the rewards are so lame. The smitting in this zone is fantastic but rewards for doing it are utter junk. I know it was mentioned today that clouds might have been looked at so I will lead it again and make more comments.

Jot: I dont know what i want done with this, the zone itself is the epotimie of what we all learned to zone on. It is one of the best zones in the game. Atm its only done for rares, or on rare occasion Invasion loads. I have a couple of ideas for jot to maybe change up some of the rewards or add some new ones. Maybe have 4 diffrent jot's load + invasion. Less over all items per jot but better rewards. This way there is a % chance at boot that one of 4 will load making the zone kind of fresh again so it gets done more. I think more old school leaders learned to lead on jot then any other zone. Long live the race to the tree!

Dragon Zonelet in muspel: Seriously Needs to get looked at, only reason you remotely think about it is for the scale, the arrows, bow, mask, dagger are basicly junk and sit in storage for fighting 3dragons all at once and then another bigger dragon for end fight. Again i know this has been mentioned just adding my thoughts on it, I will lead it again and give you my thoughts if you have changed it.

Citidel: Think this could be a great little zone if reworked also. Make guardian at each staircase so that you cant just run to top for end mobs. Make the zone !fold or !summon so you cant sneak in and fold to each guardian and move on. Having to fight through each lvl to get to top for a decent end reward would be cool and be nice to have and older zone done again.

Ice prison: Zone is definately diffrent. I really enjoyed fighting in it, its challenging. 1) End rewards have never been found because no one has figured it out, if this is the case please let us know so we can keep experimenting. 2) its just a zone for 1 quest piece and quest mob. if this is the case maybe adding on to this zone would be good, its a shame to see someone do work on a zone that gets done so rarely.

thats all i can think about, its 1:20 am here so not entirely awake. Thanks for looking at these =)
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Postby Malia » Thu May 18, 2006 5:04 pm

Well its booted since last you posted marth, I dont see any changes to the stats infact as i looked at the stats i just wanted to pond all the stuff. Curious if the changes have been moved over already or do we need to revisit the zones to get the upgraded eq. I personaly hope we need to revisit the zones to get the changed eq. But i also want to be sure that changes are moved over before we waste our time on stuff. Thanks for looking into this Marth.
Dugmaren mutters in a surly voice 'Got any new strategy or going to continue with the "throw bodies at them til they get bored"? '



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Postby Dalar » Thu May 18, 2006 5:12 pm

Waterdeep. Remove all the useless spam.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
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Postby Marthammor » Thu May 18, 2006 8:47 pm

I didn't adjust gear, just fights.
I made a request for a news entry when the files are put in, but I'll post here as well when I know they are in.
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Postby Malia » Thu May 18, 2006 9:20 pm

DOH! I didnt want the fights changed or made easier, game has to many things being made easier and is losing alot of the challenge lure. But would like to see the reward for doing the tougher fights more worthwile. Fighting 4 dragons for all pond eq kinda sucks, and fighting through a bunch of stabbers, to fight through gate, to do a lich fight then 6 !bash casters for pond eq sucks too. Leave the fights up the eq make it worth doing these zone.. not easier, no one will do em if the eq isnt worth it...

Please help me out here.. trying to bring more value to the current zones then lessen the value of them =(
Dugmaren mutters in a surly voice 'Got any new strategy or going to continue with the "throw bodies at them til they get bored"? '



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Postby Thilindel » Thu May 18, 2006 9:22 pm

Gwark's ring offers no reason to go out of your way to visit that area. :( He didn't seem any different either.
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Postby Gormal » Thu May 18, 2006 9:38 pm

Leave things difficult. Make it worth our while to attempt them.
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Postby Sarell » Fri May 19, 2006 12:49 am

I lead the dragon zonelet in musp a few weeks ago. It didn't take too long, was a really good, enjoyable, but hard fight. It would be nice to have one or two of the rewards from it made not junk. Maybe even just make each of them random load, say 40% and up them a bit. You could get lucky sometimes and unlucky other times!
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Postby Marthammor » Fri May 19, 2006 11:59 am

I didn't make anything super easy guys. Just hopefully more inline with what they were when the zones were evaluated before all the mob races changed.

The dragon zonelet in musp isn't hard from what I've seen, just time consuming because of the stratagy used. There is little risk to anyone other then tanks unless you happen to be unlucky and catch a proc because the dragons don't track and you can safely flee out.
The mask of night from there however could use some love I guess, so gimme some ideas for stats you'd like to see on it. I don't play any of the classes it can be used by, so dunno what they would find useful.
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Postby Malia » Fri May 19, 2006 2:07 pm

I like Sarell's idea better. Instead of having scale + 4 items load that we all storage anways. Have scale + 1 useful item but have it random of the 4 that load.

So say if it was arrows, make em top rate arrows since the other 3 items dont load. Also make it more then 4, maybe 6, since thats 2 rounds of firring.

If its the dagger, give it some proc loving, and make it !drop. Its a great dagger sat wise but its got !proc and its !float and dropable, who wants to use that? (btw its got great ansi!)

The bow, its human only, how many people really play ranger, there are very few, and how many of them actualy play human ranger? boggle. So remove the human only flag and make the bow on par with Imix bow, and since only 1 of the 4 items would load, that would put it on par with rare from clearning fp (id rather clear fp the the dragon zonelet for sure)

Mask of night used to be spify. Id suggest giving it some hp and some ac and make it decent tank gear. Again since only 1 of the 4 would load it could be a little spifier for sure.

again we dont want things toned down or made easier (except maybe chp) we just want rewards to balance with the fights. No fun doing fun fights like that for utter junk that no one uses. How does toning down the fight for useless eq help?! Make it at least decent eq even by midlvlers so that the zones get done more regularly, leave the challenge or even increase it but make the eq fun to get.
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Postby Gormal » Fri May 19, 2006 7:25 pm

Mask of night was downgraded because it had infra when all the sweeping changes were made. I'd say make it on par with sabertooth almost. I also like the idea of the random loading items, tho I don't see the rope loading often anymore.
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Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Fri May 19, 2006 8:26 pm

Malia wrote:The bow, its human only, how many people really play ranger, there are very few, and how many of them actualy play human ranger? boggle.


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Postby Gormal » Sat May 20, 2006 5:44 pm

I wrote the bow so I feel obligated to defend it. The point of it was to give human rangers something when it was only windsong and swiftwind out there. If its hitdam got upped to be on par with warbow, and the missile shield popper increased, it'd be a great weapon.
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Postby Malia » Mon May 22, 2006 12:26 pm

- Per player's requests, a few fights in various zones have had adjustments made to them
in an effort to improve risk vs reward.

I dont think any player that posted asked for the fights to be changed. Infact we all made a point to say please dont change the fights. Totaly frustrated about this. All this does is cut the balls off the game even more and makes those zones even more obsolete, now there is no challenge and no eq, instead of just no eq. Sigh, I just want the zones to be fun again. I dont mind tough fights infact i love hard zones, but at least make it worth our while. But dont dg the fights unless its chp =)
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Re: Post areas that need a second glance...

Postby Marthammor » Mon May 22, 2006 1:27 pm

Gormal wrote:Since dragon changes, beholder changes, psionicist changes, and Shev's underwear going without any changes; many fights/rewards still need a little tweaking. Here's a thread to post any you can think of.


I'll start:

Muspel dragon cavern rewards
Chlora armor
Infernos armor
Scour
Gythka/eel skin boots
Gith
Clouds dragon portal



I took the post as asking for fights and/or eq to be adjusted. After I adjusted the fights, you guys said you didn't want fights adjusted...
I haven't gotten to the eq adjusting that was posted further down in the thread since then. Will likely get done within the next four days when I get some time off from work.
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Postby Malia » Mon May 22, 2006 4:50 pm

Thanks for your hard work marth. I guess there are certain fights that i think need adjusting, like maybe scour, but rest just need eq to be brought into balance with the fight =)
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Postby Gormal » Wed May 24, 2006 9:36 am

I guess we should've been more specific in what part of each fight needed to be changed. Overall though, upgrade the eq or leave it as it is. (preferrably the first option).

Scour fight could use a little downgrading as a fight perhaps unless you make tit ring good again, since the other 3 items are all quest stuff. \

Chlora armor could take a boost, as could infernos.

Muspel red dragon cave rewards could all be increased to not suck, maybe using the afore-mentioned random rewards idea.

Gythka stats could be restored to their original hitdam and dice now that the beholder increased the difficulty. Eelskin boots fall under this as well.

Clouds: Upgrade clanhall eq so there's more rewards than stalking gaunts and storm bracelet... and downgrade the vortex mobs so we can do it again and leave those rewards the same.


Malia's were pretty well explained.
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Postby Marthammor » Wed May 24, 2006 1:41 pm

Okay, here's what I'm planning on currently following your guy's suggestions:

Scour: Drop the sv_spell from the ring and add a few ac (around -5ish). The fight was already downgraded and I really don't want to take it any lower. (btw, anyone from the group that done it last night have any comments about the difficulty?)

Was already planning on doing something with Chlora and Inferno armor. Likely more ac to represent it being made from dragonscales, and a bump in one of their other bonus's.

Red dragon area in muspel: I like the idea of the random rewards. Should allow for some decent upgrades to the items.

Gythka is an already powerful item with the major para proc, but yeah, will look at its dice at least to reflect it being a 2hander. Dunno what I'll do about eel skin boots yet. They just don't seem like they should be 3dam, they have a decent amount of sv_bre already, and have a prot as well. Maybe some more ac, but dunno.

Clouds: Need to re-familiarize myself with the zone again to remember what comes from that clan hall area. I've already downgraded the mobs in the vortex area once, but dunno as anyone's done it since then.

It wasn't really posted (guess it might fall under gith), but I'll also take a look at the githyanki longsword's dice to maybe make it seem more 2handerish.

Lizardmarsh: I don't know the zone at all, but I've asked that the gods from Homeland look at it since they are likely more familiar with it then I am. I haven't heard anything about it yet, so this one may take a lil longer to get something done with.

Normal Jot: Yes, its a classic zone and I'd love to see it done more as well. Unfortunately, its got the problem of a lot of eq from what can be a really short zone. Its also got the problem of most people skipping the grid, which really cuts out a lot of the difficulty from the zone. Also, many of the items are used in quests, so I'd have to upgrade those items as well and so on. I can't just add new items to the zone as that increases the already large amount of eq that comes from there. Granted, most of it currently gets handed down to newbies, which causes the problem of them not seeing the value of items they can get off mobs they can kill themselves...
I suppose one solution would be to permanently remove all the small items not used in quests and then upgrade or clone/upgrade the rest, which puts us back in the loop of upgrading all the items from quests that take those items.

Citadel: So not familiar with this zone, but your suggestion sounds simple enough that even a n00b like me can get it done without any knowledge of the zone. ;)

Ice prison: Its Cyric's zone and only he really knows anything about it, so any changes needing made to it need to be done by him.

Waterdeep: Its supposed to be spammy! I could however get rid of echoes in specific rooms if that helps, like cleric's path, the inn, 1d from the inn, ect. Gimme a list of rooms and I'll try to make it happen.

Gwark: Yer kidding, right?

So, if you've got any other suggestions, please post. I realize I said I'd do eq changes over these three/four days, but gonna put it off till next week to give you guys a chance to post some more, plus I've had some things come up irl that is going to take me away from the computer for a large portion of the time I had set aside to work on this.
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Postby torkur » Wed May 24, 2006 9:52 pm

Was in Maladryn's group last night that did scour. It seemed pretty good, but did have top tier chars like ashantia in group which might screw with balance a lil. I do know noone wanted the tit ring really, so removing the svsp penalty would go a long way to making it used more. Otherwise, seemed like it was reasonable, but we did swamps first and the type of group you take there versus normal ribcage might be a little different.
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Postby Glorishan » Thu May 25, 2006 3:29 am

Marthammor wrote:Gwark: Yer kidding, right?


This is not a matter about which I would joke!
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Postby Marthammor » Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:29 pm

Most of these things are taken care of and will be in soonish. The changes to Lizardmarsh are already in thanks to Vaprak.
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Postby Jhorr » Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:17 pm

Marthammor,

Thanks for your interest and hard work.

Jhorr
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Postby Verarb » Thu Jun 15, 2006 11:36 pm

No Love for my misties :(
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Postby Demuladon » Sun Jun 18, 2006 12:07 pm

Just noting that the ribcage ring now has +ac, not -5ac as mentioned above.
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Postby Marthammor » Sun Jun 18, 2006 1:28 pm

Yeah, that was a typo. I always get the ac on rings mixed up it seems.
There are also a few more changes to the changes I made previously which should be going in soon.
The combat amulet, icicle dagger, titanium ring, umm.. night mask, I think..
have had more changes done to them. (not in yet tho, soon)
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Postby Sarell » Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:26 am

I personally love the spam in WD. Makes it feel like a city! One of the far more engaging, atmospheric zones on the mud.
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Postby Gormal » Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:00 am

I haven't had a chance to check everything out yet, but I like what I've seen. I was wondering if the mask of night could be made usable by clerical types. Not sure why its restricted from that in the first place.

Keep it up!
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Postby Ambar » Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:45 am

Sarell wrote:I personally love the spam in WD. Makes it feel like a city! One of the far more engaging, atmospheric zones on the mud.


Heheh Pat remember the first time you had an elf leave Elfcatraz? Thinking how LOUD WD was? Fun times :)

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Postby Itasha » Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:51 am

/whimper

Pretty please can we get a stable in Menzo??

I want a lizard mount, but not if I don't have a place to keep it. Need a place to keep the little goblins I buy too!

(beg, grovel, plead)
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Postby Tasan » Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:45 pm

Kazgoroth rewards. Please do not retrofit the old items, just copy to new vnums so the new rewards reflect the new challenges inherent in doing the quest. Thanx.
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Postby Botef » Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:52 pm

Slave City amulet/ring might be worth looking at if they haven't already, though I can't say I've heard of any other groups trying turtle dragon/babies since changes beyond the few of us who tried several months ago.
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