Jot invasion 6/20

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
Disoputlip
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Postby Disoputlip » Thu Jun 22, 2006 6:43 pm

One of my conserns is that a few of the items are doable before the zone is done.

The split should go to the group. The bigger split the better. This was also the reason wrist razors got nerfed in stats a while back.

I also think it ruined the old jot invasion that a few items always was done without a group.

You can't avoid the rich in getting richer, but group-splits gives a far better division of loot.
Malia
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Postby Malia » Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:02 pm

the devices fixed the twinking... you cant teleport on or even exit jot at all without smitting and you need a group for that. That was plenty of a fix, no 2people are gonna get in and be able to do it. Muspel invasion needs this btw.. cuz yes 4 item in muspel (marble bracer, energy mesh, signet ring, and roc headdress) can be 2maned once invasion loads.

The shouting is good too it forces you to do more of the grid mobs *which is my favorite part of any grid zone invasion btw*
Dugmaren mutters in a surly voice 'Got any new strategy or going to continue with the "throw bodies at them til they get bored"? '

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Malia
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Postby Malia » Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:04 pm

Btw.. would like you to notice 1 other thing about your precious jot invasion revamped...

Its been up for 3 days, i tried 2 days ago to do it, no one has even bothered to form or try for it since 2 nights ago. That right there has got to be a HUGE RED FLAG that theres a problem.
Dugmaren mutters in a surly voice 'Got any new strategy or going to continue with the "throw bodies at them til they get bored"? '



Dranth group-says 'i started drinkin when i found out galzar would be here'



Nerox says 'careful she goes from 0 to bitch in .00000001 seconds'



Mugo ASSOC:: 'ah got it on my gaytimer now :P'
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Postby Tasan » Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:38 pm

Marthammor wrote:Overall the zone hasn't changed a whole lot from what it used to be, or at least I tried not to change it too much from what it used to be. I had to take into account the power of players now, and the power of the players back then when doing things.


Game OVER. This is the one problem that ruins this place. "Fixing" zones that aren't broken to make them "on par" with how eq is now? There cannot be such a thing. The advancement of every mud depends on newer content to drive a thirst for doing new things. You don't go back and change the older content to appease some ideal level of power. Now those people that are new to the game don't have a jot invasion to do. Most won't stick around to see what it's about since it is now at least 2 progression levels higher than it was.

The progression from a wipe was fairly straight forward. You started off on BGR, Elder Forest and I wish I knew for the evils, built a decent full set of equipment for that progression. Then you moved onwards to the smaller zones: IC vault, Crypts, SH, Citadel. You reached another plateau of equipment and you were the first to attempt Jot/Brass/TF/MD/SF. If you were lucky, sometime during this plateau you would get to try invasion. Invasion was the coolest thing around because it yielded difficult fights(2nd gate was always monstrously fun), really decent equipment and prestige, not in the form of a useless number, but from people saying "wow, a twilight, cool!". After that plateau you tried Avernus/Tiamat.

When you change invasion to take into account equipment from SpoB/Izan/BC/Tiamat, you are destroying part of the progression. Invasion should have stayed where it was in the progression, even if you wanted to make slight changes to the eq/fights. Updating a zone to be more colorful, tell a better story and involve a player more isn't a problem. Making it much more difficult/time consuming to justify new stuff _is_.

Marthammor wrote:Now, I got to ask: How long did the first jot invasions take?
How long were both regular jot and invasion taking before rogue sneak/fold were used to bypass the grids?
How long were they after sneak/fold?


Regular jot back before sneak/fold was a 3-3.5 hour zone when you first attempted it, that came down to 2-2.5. It yielded a LOT of equipment for a zone, and thus it was fairly important in the progression. This is one of the fun things about it as well; even if you weren't getting top-end gear for the entire zone, people could still walk away with something decent.

Invasion took upwards of 6-8 hours I believe to start with(2nd gatehouse was usually the key time point, you win with a few casualties or you die horribly and have to regroup). Over time it was whittled down to 4-6 pretty regularly. This was more due to people(and leaders) having done it and knowing what to expect than it becoming "easier".

Marthammor wrote:Every zone takes longer to finish when they first come in.. the fact that invasion is a random instance makes it seem like its taking forever to get completion times down, at least that’s how I see it. Perhaps I'm wrong?


This is where I'm not sure what you are expecting to get for a response. The collective response to this is "Why change a randomly loading zone to be undoable except by planning?". I believe the consensus is that the zone shouldn't have been made more time-consuming or difficult because it is random load. I do not believe people want to have a quest installed to be able to pop invasion at anytime they want.

Part of the mystique and allure of the zone was that it loaded so rarely that you were lucky to be there for it. That is why people raced to it. We are talking about a zone that on previous incarnations it was ok to have 2 full groups in the zone at once. 2 groups that raced to the waterfall and hence claimed palace or thrym. And this was by all means OK for this zone. Then we had Cyric come and nix that idea(after folding came in) and now we have these changes to further detract from the experience that was.

You are hearing the opinion of the older folks that still remember those days, and remember that THIS instance was one of the reasons you played as much as you could, and this is why we ran to the tree at crash/boot. The race was part of the fun, now there is no race. There isn't even much fervor about doing the zone at all. Really sad in my eyes.

If I've missed what the consensus is I apologize.

Also Marth, thank you for the information and the willingness to listen.
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Malia
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Postby Malia » Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:11 am

Another day goes by and no one cared to do your new jot invasion. Just figured id point that out.

If i sound bitter its because I most definately am.
Dugmaren mutters in a surly voice 'Got any new strategy or going to continue with the "throw bodies at them til they get bored"? '



Dranth group-says 'i started drinkin when i found out galzar would be here'



Nerox says 'careful she goes from 0 to bitch in .00000001 seconds'



Mugo ASSOC:: 'ah got it on my gaytimer now :P'
Marthammor
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Postby Marthammor » Fri Jun 23, 2006 1:46 pm

Mkay, so..
How’s this:
1) Remove the frost giants on the upper and the small part of the lower grid and let the fire giants roam the entire upper and lower grid areas. (Leave the three giant patrols?)

2) Remove the area where the giants are fighting each other.

3) Return Glammad back to his former location, leaving his calling in place.

4) Leave the !teleport objects as is.

5) Thrym and mage camps will stay as is.

6) The boulder throwing giants will be removed from normal and invasion both.. was a failed attempt at trying to mimic what giants would do in battle.

7) The wagon fight stays as is, but either remove the patrol group, or provide a way to prevent the group from loading and showing up.

8) The calling gong before Loki stays.

9) Sirthon's calling stays.

10) The zone remains rare loading.

I think that takes care of everything you hated about it as well as cuts the time down.

Thoughts?
Malia
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Postby Malia » Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:01 pm

Let me know when those are in place and I will start looking for invasion again.

Thank you.
Dugmaren mutters in a surly voice 'Got any new strategy or going to continue with the "throw bodies at them til they get bored"? '



Dranth group-says 'i started drinkin when i found out galzar would be here'



Nerox says 'careful she goes from 0 to bitch in .00000001 seconds'



Mugo ASSOC:: 'ah got it on my gaytimer now :P'
Marthammor
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Postby Marthammor » Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:21 pm

When I get those changes done, I'll be sure to get a news entry put in as well as a post probably in this thread.
These changes likely won't happen for a few weeks, but will start working on them right after I finish helping get most of the kinks out of a new zone that is almost ready to go in.
Gormal
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Postby Gormal » Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:26 pm

Where oh where has my worried valkyrie gone?
Marthammor
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Postby Marthammor » Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:00 pm

Guess I should ask.. Those proposed changes seem ok to everyone else?
Open to comment n stuff before I actually do them.

Oh, and Gormal.. I didn't mess with the valkyrie so I dunno what happened to it unless it was changed before I started changing things.
Malia
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Postby Malia » Sat Jun 24, 2006 1:35 pm

It was changed when Miax still had the mud when you could still sit in the jot tree safely. I miss the valk too gormal! What jot truely needs is a goat protector tho.
Dugmaren mutters in a surly voice 'Got any new strategy or going to continue with the "throw bodies at them til they get bored"? '



Dranth group-says 'i started drinkin when i found out galzar would be here'



Nerox says 'careful she goes from 0 to bitch in .00000001 seconds'



Mugo ASSOC:: 'ah got it on my gaytimer now :P'
Gormal
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Postby Gormal » Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:56 am

In the original invasion, there were no branches on tree, they were part of the difficulty changes put in. They were put in to curb people soloing into Jot and twinking berry/clump/invasion check. A worried valkyrie paces here... or some such. It was awesome to run into her, that was when tree was a safe room. Maybe kill all branches except the ones on astral and make valkyrie load up down from the astral ones. That way you can't scan to see if it loaded, and it looks like fire giants came through Yggdrasil as well as the volcano. Just a little old school flava.
ssar
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Postby ssar » Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:10 am

Yea, bring back the Valkyrie, but add a magical goat follower to it as well.
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Postby Sarell » Sun Jun 25, 2006 8:29 am

If it is !tele, do you really need the calling? Cleaning up stragglers is a pretty dry aspect of zones like the planes and magma.
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Postby Lilira » Sun Jun 25, 2006 3:20 pm

Your God's wrath causes an over-abused joke to scream in pain, and its immediate death.
An ancient over-abused joke is dead! R.I.P.
Your blood freezes as you hear the rattling death cry of the Gormal joke.

Wishful thinking??? Time for something new, I think this one is DEAD.
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Postby Yasden » Sun Jun 25, 2006 3:34 pm

Not dead, just VERY overused. Those of us who started and perpetuated it use it rarely, but it seems everyone else who hears it wants to jump on the bandwagon. Kinda like Danafk. Chalk it up to unoriginality and lack of creative thinking.
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Postby Tanji Smanji » Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:01 pm

The most famous screen capture in the history of Sojourn.
How to go from Waelos to Weylarii.

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Postby alendar » Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:04 pm

The Jokester stands here cackling. <red aura>
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Alendar -= The Black Ash of the Phoenix =-
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Postby Thilindel » Sun Jun 25, 2006 8:08 pm

Lilira wrote:Your God's wrath causes an over-abused joke to scream in pain, and its immediate death.
An ancient over-abused joke is dead! R.I.P.
Your blood freezes as you hear the rattling death cry of the Gormal joke.

Wishful thinking??? Time for something new, I think this one is DEAD.


Surely this joke will rise once again. Everybody knows you don't use Full Tickle to KO something for good!
Marthammor
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Postby Marthammor » Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:33 pm

Good news: Files are ready to go!
Bad news: Gotta wait for an areas and code file move.

Should be within a few days hopefully. Will be a news entry.
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Postby Gormal » Fri Jun 30, 2006 2:24 am

Yasden wrote:Not dead, just VERY overused. Those of us who started and perpetuated it use it rarely, but it seems everyone else who hears it wants to jump on the bandwagon. Kinda like Danafk. Chalk it up to unoriginality and lack of creative thinking.


Unless you're Treladian, its not original.
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Postby sok » Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:25 pm

Marthammor wrote:Good news: Files are ready to go!
Bad news: Gotta wait for an areas and code file move.

Should be within a few days hopefully. Will be a news entry.


eventhough, i have not done the new invasion, let me say thanks for listening to these guys & acting promptly. before gormal, goat, afk name, etc hijackthis thread.
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Postby Xisiqomelir » Mon Jul 03, 2006 5:53 am

Tasan wrote:I'm fairly certain most would agree that Scorps is just about perfect.


Yes!
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