Fix this?

[Thilindel]

<492h>
<P> esc d
You stop trying to hide.
Why? You are not fighting anyone.

<492h>
<P>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since you can flee when not fighting, why doesn't it just let you move the way you planned to escape? OR If it's going to force you to stand there, why does it break hide? You didn't do anything.

[Ambar]

ESCAPE
Applied Skill

Syntax: escape <direction>
Class/Level: Rogue 1st, Bard 15th, Battlechanter 15th

Escape is similar to the retreat command, but it allows the rogue, if
successful, to escape a battle, choosing the direction he flees in, even
if the rogue is "tanking." If the rogue is unsuccessful, or there is no
exit in the direction, the rogue will flee in a random direction.


Basically you attempted an action that is used in battle .. why wouldn't it break hide?

Hide and escape already oober, why try to beef them up even more??

[Thilindel]

It doesn't make sense to break hide because aren't in battle, you aren't doing the command. But, what about this part - If the rogue is unsuccessful, or there is no exit in the direction, the rogue will flee in a random direction.

Just doesn't make sense.
same goes for retreat:
<492h>
<P> You stop trying to hide.
You're not fighting anything to retreat from!

Before it was fixed, you'd lose moves draging something in a direction that wasn't an option. Now you don't lose moves when draggin' something north when exits are E-W.

Hide's file says it's broken when you enter a command. That's rather general, but entering a command is walking while sneaking and hidden. Either way, something's not right. The point is, fully, ESCAPE EAST. I'm not fighting. OK. Now why the heck didn't I just walk east? Either way that's the direction and intent.

[Arilin Nydelahar]

Yeah no reason to escape, but you still attempted the skill, and it still does a base skillcheck. Personally I couldn't care if it breaks hide. You work around it really. It's not a deal breaker, just watch for it?

[Sarell]

The point is, fully, ESCAPE EAST. I'm not fighting. OK. Now why the heck didn't I just walk east?

Good question, why didn't you just walk east? Perhaps trying to notch the skill without using it properly like people use to do before this was fixed, they'd just escape everywhere instead of walking for a few days. That's why it is, how it is. Anyhow, I agree with Ambar, if I try to swing a sword at someone who isn't there I should also mess up my hide. Just don't do it? The skill as it currently is, is much more practical and useful in playing a rogue than how it used to be, which was more how you are describing.

[Birile]

Maybe next time don't try a battle command when you're not in battle? I mean, honestly, the general consensus is rogues are overpowered and many consider them a little (or a lot) broken--and you want more hand-holding for the class for when YOU make a mistake? Come on.

How about just saying, "Wow, that was silly of me to try to escape when I'm not fighting" and move on.

[Botef]

Learning how to deal with all the little quirks like this is what makes Rogues so much fun!

[Sarell]

I'll tell anyone in game who wants to know why escape is more useful to a good rogue the current way than the old way. For 5K.

[Solak]

5K times touches, kisses?

[Thilindel]

I found it funny that some screwy things selectively get fixed, while others designate malfunction as 'feature'

Dragging stuff out of the room, as I said earlier, would eat moves when you couldn't move the direction you attempted to drag. It was fixed. Yes, you tried to move, blah blah, was the old argument. Now it's this. So, I'm just addressing the logic behind one thing that was fixed vs. this point being escape/retreat breaking hide..when the direction isn't available.

Why is it you escape randomly when you attempt to escape in a direction that isn't available? You DO move. Now escaping while not fighting (my idea is you spam directions and you see an agg walk in and are typing _too_ fast in escaping before mob actually spots you) is quirky cuz you stand still and not only that, break hide. Now you're vulnerable and your intent was to move towards another room. Anyhoo, I've not at all asked to make rogues 'stronger'. The idea with the energy drain vial is just to make solo'g or xp'g more enjoyable. Not everybody is gonna quest khanjis. It's a khanji that's broken (you could say), not the rogue.

[Birile]

It's a khanji that's broken (you could say), not the rogue.

I agree with the first part of this statement and disagree with the second part.

Yes, khanjari is broken and I don't recall the Imms ever stating a really satisfying reason as to why its power is still so completely uber all this time after it was put back in the game. It's rather sad that three out of every four rogues (I'm being conservative) are EFHR's--because of an item. Yeah, it's a rather difficult quest, but its power (especially for EFHR's) far exceeds the difficulty of the quest. There is a serious imbalance there.

What I don't get is this: Lilithelle can demonstrate the power of a Druid's or Elementalist's class abilities and those classes get downgraded. Teba can demonstrate the power of a Rogue's Khanjari and the item stays the same. Yeah... okay.

As for rogues not being broken...

Sneak/Hide anyone? This single ability has been the single reason why many zones are !teleport--because the zone creators don't want a rogue sneak/hiding to a particular location (thus bypassing certain aspects of a zones) and then allowing the entire group to be folded/gated to said location.

Peeking into Inventory... Let's see if X rareload loaded! To bypass this single ability, items are now loaded hidden. Yeah, let's change how a LOT of items are loaded into the game rather than changing ONE class feature. Make it a "try once" feature--if you see the item on the first look, great. If not, tough luck, you ain't gonna see it on a second look. Thank you, please drive thru.

Steal... Hey, let's steal Chloracryda's scales! Or let's just make this feature useful for stealing coins and that's it. Or, oh, I know! Let's make Chlora's scales hidden on her and put a bandaid on the problem--works for keepin' those pesky rogues from peeking into inventory, right?? No problem, we have lots of bandaids, we'll use 'em on a case-by-case basis as people realize they can use the Rogue class in even more new and exciting ways!! Too pesky to actually change the cause of the problem... Steal goes against the very nature of the game as the Imms have presented the game to us. Yes, it's in a Rogue's nature, but this feature belongs on a PK mud, not on Toril.

I suppose I could go on, but I won't. I'd also like to point out that I have nothing against any players taking advantage of something that the Imms allow to slip through the cracks and I have to say that I laugh when Imms put a bandaid on a single issue rather than fixing the root of the problem.

The fact of the matter is, no other single class in the game has caused more changes to how the Areas staff operate on this Mud. Zones are created differently. Items are created differently. Items are created in a vain attempt to try to bring other classes in line with a Rogue's power. Because of Rogues.

When a class can alter how a game is created, the class is broken. The Khanjari has exacerbated the issue.

[Thilindel]

I was referring to the melee of rogue being not broken, but the overall class I didn't mean to say wasn't broken. Rereading, that's what I did do. Rogues are uber cheesy. All I remember was ppl were complaining about Khanji's and Shev posted 'he was tired of hearing this "shit"'

[Sarell]

You call them band-aids, I call it depth. *Shrug*

"The fact of the matter is, no other single class in the game has caused more changes to how the Areas staff operate on this Mud."

Ever met Corth? :|

WTF does this have to do with escape anyhow?

I'm still of the opinion that if you a are a twitchy rogue who thinks they should suddenly escape -FROM COMBAT as described in the help file- for no reason then you are going to break hide. As someone who plays several top end rogues, I have to say I would hate it personally, if escape, escaped when you are not in combat.

[Birile]

Ever met Corth? :|

Corth caused a couple changes to Illusionists, big deal. Hardly on par with a mediocre rogue using their basic class skills!

[Sarell]

Ever met Corth? :|

Corth caused a couple changes to Illusionists, big deal. Hardly on par with a mediocre rogue using their basic class skills!

apparently not :P

[Nokie]

I didn't realize that you could notch the escape skill when not in combat! I remember intentionally escaping all the time in combat simply to max out this skill!

[Tanji Smanji]

I didn't realize that you could notch the escape skill when not in combat! I remember intentionally escaping all the time in combat simply to max out this skill!

Same, still dunno why you'd ever need to escape when not in combat aside from setting up a script to practice the skill or move around zones even more freely than you can with the current system. This change isn't needed, isn't neccesary and would do nothing but help sucky rogues pretend to be decent. And as far as khanjari's go, swirling shadows > khanjari for pure style and sexy appeal!