Jot Invasion Fri 8/24

Feedback, bugs, and general gameplay related discussion.
Ifin
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Jot Invasion Fri 8/24

Postby Ifin » Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:48 am

Jot Invasion is up. The last few invasions like maybe 8 of them haven't even been even attempted b/c of perceived time and also because of past crashes.

Supposedly it's been changed, but we still don't know if we're going to wind up spending 8+ hrs for total zone, or 3 hours and then crash and we get nothing.

Willing to try to get people to do Invasion just to re-evaluate its time and stuff, but can we get some reassurance that zone will be reset if we've invested time into it?

Not even sure can form w/that, but it's Friday, can split up into 2 days as well if people want to give it a go. Then we can either applaud the effort or complain some more.
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Postby Dalar » Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:11 pm

8+ hours? Jesus way to kill the zone.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
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Postby Tasan » Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:02 pm

Dalar wrote:8+ hours? Jesus way to kill the zone.


Way to chime in months later and not even in the thread where we complained.

Go back to whatever the hell you were doing and stop trolling if you can't even keep up with things.
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Postby Dalar » Sat Aug 25, 2007 7:33 am

Tasan wrote:
Dalar wrote:8+ hours? Jesus way to kill the zone.


Way to chime in months later and not even in the thread where we complained.

Go back to whatever the hell you were doing and stop trolling if you can't even keep up with things.


I apologize for not being cool enough to play this great game.
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.

Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
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Postby Drogga » Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:13 pm

congratulation ifin on the great lead i heard :P

people got scared of jot invasion before because of the rumor that it took 13hrs to finish it :P perhaps it is just some competency problem before :P
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Postby Cap'n Touk » Sat Aug 25, 2007 2:10 pm

We did the zone in 6 hours, and ya, props to Ifin for leading and solo chanting the entire thing. There's a niche of players who enjoy 6 hour zones.. I'm not one of them, some suggestions / things I heard floating around if you want to change it again.

Lower grid - seriously you're in a zone that's going to take 5+ hours, you have a killer group.. and you're fighting 1 mob at a time? Change the feel back to how it was, massive, scarey, reasonable chance you're going to spank fights. Make everything 3-5 mob groups instead of 1-3, then double the # of mobs, then remove the stupid shout procs!

Sirthon's an easy fight and the volcano was just runs. *shrug*

Upper grid was more enjoyable, mage camp went down fast, Thrym was standard just bigger, I hear you removed archers in castle, didn't see any - if so that's a great change.. would just have been annoying. 2nd gate was a LOT of fun - kudos, Loki was good.. just did 'm in runs.

That last little room after Loki is just an annoyance really. Seriously, been in the zone forevah, killed EVERYTHING out there.. just took out the king's throne room, but oh no, there's 3 more mobs that think they're gunna take you out? Puh-lease, just annoyance factor.

Overall - lower grid was a grind, upper grid was fun, entire thing was good just too long for my tastes.

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Postby Malia » Sun Aug 26, 2007 1:52 am

I agree with touk. Most of the lower grid is just an anoying grind. Pointless smitting for no reason other then mobs shout and you gotta kill everything.

I agree with his suggestion, especaily after doing muspel invasion today with some of those fights. Really increase the total number of mobs in jot invasion decrease the number of beards total just add alot more soldiers and mercs to make grid more packed and more dangerous. Will increase the number of challening fights and take out the shouting so you dont have to go to every room of whole zone and kill every stinking mob. Only shouting i actualy really like is gong before loki. Makes it a bit more challening and its 1 big fight again.

Doing this will decrease the grind of first grid without increasing the twink factor. I look forward to feed back and trying again if changes go in...

Again add soldiers and mercs, decrease beards or leave same and dont increase them.
Remove shouting from sirthorn and glammad and anything on grid that calls for more besides the gong that is used to protect loki.
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Postby muxxissinix » Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:29 am

The first grid is about 150 rooms where the mobs wander and you need to try to clear it totally, you spend about 3.5-4 hours if you do a good job clering the grid.
Please check a map of Jot and undestant this is a big waste of time, if grid is like GF you can clear it easily and not worrie about doing the grid again checking for the mobs that wander in a huge open grid.

I like Jot invasion, is a really enjoyable zone and is sad to see how people turn it down and say : "I don't have time for do the zone", or "I am glad I didn't join you guys", or "I am so not going again to Jot Invasion".

Thanks.
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Postby Marthammor » Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:08 am

Thanks for the suggestions and feedback.
I think the shouting was the original plan to make the zone more difficult and combat having a rogue sneak through and then fold the group to the final fights. Then the idea of the !teleport devices were introduced, and the shouting wasn't removed which made things more annoying then needed.
We'll defiantly be taking a look at the lower grid and coming up with a solution. From the sounds of it, most everything else is ok.
Still open to other suggestions and feedback, of course.
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Postby Ifin » Sun Aug 26, 2007 8:13 am

Castle is perfect. 2nd gate is probably best fight in zone. Except the last treasure room - it's just an annoyance like Touk said.

Thrym camp is good. Maybe make fire giants !load there so we don't have to deal with that sidetrack. For entry thrym gate, if you want to make just a tad interesting, remove a warrior and add a mage - an illu (as imho they more most interesting mages). Otherwise after that it's just normal Jot for one piece of invasion eq.

Mage camp, is fine. If you're going to fix grid then you can maybe add 2 wars to fight to make earning the eq more interesting. And change a mage to illu.

IMHO, Sirthoin shouting is fine. I can think of a strategy a good group can use to speed him up. Might leave this so it's a bit dif. from Musp Invasion.

Wagon fight risk vrs. reward might be a bit off. Might think of either changing the eq or moving a more worth it eq there.

So the main problem is Glammad.

Basically the 1st 3 hrs was boring, long, to clear grids, and the only point was to do Glammad. There's no real other way except clearing grids of black & reds for him.

So like Ross said (except for Sirthion suggestion cuz I think we can try something), add more f/g's to grid, more warriors than beards, depending on density can change to either come to combat or not, and make Glammad !shout. Then a group can fight way to Wagon/Sirthoin (apply strat)/Upper Grid.

Or leave lower grid like it is, add a waterfall fight similar to 2nd castle gate fight, and Glammad !shout. Something along those lines.

I think 4 (great group) - 6 hrs (decent group) is good time for Jot Invasion which could be achievable w/these changes.

If Jot Invasion loads again, might do an abbreviated form changes not withstanding, but these changes need to be made.
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Postby Latreg » Mon Aug 27, 2007 3:32 pm

glad it got done, I'd go next time, depending on when it loads.....speaking of which what about a force load 1x month on a weekend, something we could plan for, or 1x per 2 months, anyone think the odds of it getting done durning the week are better than 20%?
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Postby grundar » Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:30 pm

see the whole point is for it to be rare, if it starts loading on a set date then it becomes not so rare and gets nerfed.

however i agree with latreg that it should load on fridays or saturdays, so if it can at all be done, why not add an extra chance for it to load if mud's time = fri|sat %d %m %y

balance this so it doesnt load more often than it does now
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Postby torkur » Wed Aug 29, 2007 5:26 am

I didn't get to go due to work (like most people), but a 6 hour zone that is "rare" seems a bit extreme... unless you want it to be done extremely rarely almost always on a weekend. Be better if you could pop it somehow or if it was a 3-4hr zone you could attempt depending on the evening.

Point being, how many times you see BC/Magma done during the week? They're not even rare and can be planned for, yet are done 1x per month or less.
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Postby Kegor » Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:19 am

Well with boots times lasting for days as they do, and the zone being more difficult, there are much better chances of being able to save it for later and gather a group at a more opportune time. In this instance it loaded on a friday and was done on a saturday. Even if it had been during the week, I'm sure it would have been done as the "evening zone" the following day. I see nothing wrong with this at all, even though I wasn't online to join that group. I would think it would be in the best interest of all to make it a 3-4 hour zone, but if the zone creator (or in this case the zone editor) decided to make it 5-6, that's just the way it is.

I'm still not certain why it was changed in the first place. Certainly there are more worthwhile projects that would add completely new content to the mud. I vaguely remember some really cool zones from Homeland. It's been a long time now since they shut down and "merged" with Toril.
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Postby muxxissinix » Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:49 am

A Large Hill Overlooking Utgard
The land gently slopes up to a large hill overlooking the
great Frost giant city of Utgard. The weather is a little less
harsh near the city due to the magic of the king Utgard-Loki.
The huge grey granite walls tower over the surrounding terrain.
Slaves can be seen working the land surrounding the city; carts
straggle back and forth carrying their wares into the city. The
Torvald river snakes around the hill and passes between two large
war camps to the west of here. The hill slopes down to a rocky
strip of land outside an earthen rampart to the west.
Room size: Large (L:37 ft W:37 ft H:500 ft)
Exits: - North - East - South - West
A few scattered blood droplets cover the area.
A small piece of candy lies here. (illuminating)
A small piece of candy lies here.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A member of the Smoking Beard works his evil magic here.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A member of the Smoking Beard works his evil magic here.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A member of the Smoking Beard works his evil magic here.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A member of the Smoking Beard works his evil magic here.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A member of the Smoking Beard works his evil magic here.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A member of the Smoking Beard works his evil magic here.
A member of the Smoking Beard works his evil magic here.
A member of the Smoking Beard works his evil magic here.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A member of the Smoking Beard works his evil magic here.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A member of the Smoking Beard works his evil magic here.
A member of the Smoking Beard works his evil magic here.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A member of the Smoking Beard works his evil magic here.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A member of the Smoking Beard works his evil magic here.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A member of the Smoking Beard works his evil magic here.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A member of the Smoking Beard works his evil magic here.
A member of the Smoking Beard works his evil magic here.
A member of the Smoking Beard works his evil magic here.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A member of the Smoking Beard works his evil magic here.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A member of the Smoking Beard works his evil magic here.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A member of the Smoking Beard works his evil magic here.
A member of the Smoking Beard works his evil magic here.
A member of the Smoking Beard works his evil magic here.
A member of the Smoking Beard works his evil magic here.
A member of the Smoking Beard works his evil magic here.
A member of the Smoking Beard works his evil magic here.
The ghoul of a fire giant soldier stands here.
The ghost of an efreeti mercenary stands here.
A member of the Smoking Beard works his evil magic here.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A member of the Smoking Beard works his evil magic here.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A member of the Smoking Beard works his evil magic here.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A member of the Smoking Beard works his evil magic here.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A member of the Smoking Beard works his evil magic here.
A member of the Smoking Beard works his evil magic here.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A member of the Smoking Beard works his evil magic here.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A member of the Smoking Beard works his evil magic here.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A member of the Smoking Beard works his evil magic here.
A member of the Smoking Beard works his evil magic here.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A member of the Smoking Beard works his evil magic here.
A member of the Smoking Beard works his evil magic here.
A member of the Smoking Beard works his evil magic here.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant soldier participates in the assault on Jotunheim.
A fire giant captain assists Glammad with the invasion.
A fire giant captain assists Glammad with the invasion.
A fire giant captain assists Glammad with the invasion.
A fire giant captain assists Glammad with the invasion.
Glammad Firebeard oversees the assault of Utgard from atop the hill.
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Postby Marthammor » Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:43 pm

I guess thats one way to get the entire grid to one spot...
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Postby Disoputlip » Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:41 pm

giants love candy...
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Postby Drogga » Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:24 am

i agree that a "rare" zone which takes more than 6hrs to complete it is a bit extreme. for me i normally can play up to max 6hrs unplanned session which is also rarely happen. average is like 3-4hrs mudding session.

i agree with ifin. remove glammad shout, add more mobs, reduce beards and somehow try to make the zone between 4-6hrs.
maybe make certain type of mob tracks while the other type dont, this will make clearing the grid slightly easier.

For me any "rare" zone that takes beyond 6hrs is a bit too much unless mud can be up for more than a week which will raise up other problems.

imho
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Postby Ifin » Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:07 am

Rest is fine but Glammad. We found ways to reduce the time and make all the fights interesting except for Glammad since it's ridiculous.

We even cleared about maybe 1/8th of the lower grid (in a line) and complete 2nd grid before that shout was done. Ridiculous? I think so.

I don't think Glammad should be completely !shout w/his current group and the eq he gives. How about to make it a little different than other Invasions, keep # of mobs same, add 2 groups on the grid that Glammad only shouts for. The groups maybe like 3 wars 2 beards, and like the other b&w, don't come to combat. They could be like his Captain's or something.

Think something like that might keep it balanced and make complete Invasion hit the 3.5-4 hr mark w/solid group that it should be.
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Postby sok » Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:09 am

so can i assume that you guys didn't kill glammad?
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Postby Marthammor » Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:04 pm

Ok, so I've finally gotten off my ass and started working on this.
I just want to be sure on some things..

1) More groups of mobs, less single mobs to make things more interesting.

2)Remove Glammad shout and add something else that makes his fight interesting so you don't have to clear the entire zone.

3)Ditch the three mobs after Loki. Just leave the gear on the floor and the quest mob inside the vault.

Anything else?
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Postby bawog » Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:37 pm

Just look at Musp Invasion marthammor, that in and of itself is a blast to zone in. Lots of groups of mobs, tons of walkins etc. Even if there are a shit load of beards, just the possibility of taking ya know 20 giants and a blast. And yea those mobs inside the vault are a real pita, and not really needed. Jot invasion is more of a grind for ehhh decent eq but hasn't been worth doing in all honesty, but with a few tweaks it can be restored to its former glory.

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Postby Malia » Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:39 pm

I would maybe adjust the volcano fight and look at it as reward/fight, persoanly i think that fight is harder then loki for far less eq.
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Postby Ghimok » Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:23 pm

Marthammor wrote:Ok, so I've finally gotten off my ass and started working on this.
I just want to be sure on some things..

1) More groups of mobs, less single mobs to make things more interesting.

2)Remove Glammad shout and add something else that makes his fight interesting so you don't have to clear the entire zone.

3)Ditch the three mobs after Loki. Just leave the gear on the floor and the quest mob inside the vault.

Anything else?


Yes, more groups of mobs, less single mobs. Part of the problem is that there are so many single mobs it takes forever. Plus single mob fights are boring.

See ifin's post above regarding Glammad. Instead of having Glammad shout for all beards in the entire zone, make him shout for 2 mob groups that load on opposite sides of the grid. These groups would consist of 3 warriors and 2 beards, for example. Make them not come to combat or lure so you have to locate them on the grid and smite them. This means you would need to fight some or most of the grid mobs, but not all.

Yup, get rid of the aggro mobs in the vault. They serve absolutely no purpose but to turn an already long zone into a slightly longer zone.

The volcano fight is pretty tough considering that you get an earring that is barely any better than the TTF earring that can be had by a 9 man group in 30 minutes. Adjust the risk/reward on this fight so that either there's better loot, or the fight isn't quite so tough.
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Postby Marthammor » Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:53 pm

Think I've gotten this pretty much taken care of except Glammad's shout. He'll still call in help, just not the entire grid. Going to leave Sirthon's shout and the gong call alone. I think total, there are 66 solo mobs on the grids, and 70 groups of mobs ranging from 3 to 7 mobs per group. The mobs in the vault room have been removed, and at the request of a player, added an upgrade for Glammad's old crown to the new one. Dropped the mob count of the volcano fight slightly. There is more then the earring that comes from that, btw...
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Postby Ifin » Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:19 pm

Thanks Marth for doing the changes, appreciate it. If it works should be about right.

Hope only thing else from the volcano are the potions you mean :p They are pretty badass, but yeah would be more sense if that fight was toned down a bit (but you said you addressed that too so thanks).
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Postby Kegor » Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:24 am

Just wanted to say thank you, Marthammor. You have had a difficult job handed to you here in the areas sphere, with little support from the forger of the sphere. This place would be pretty screwed without you, and we appreciate your efforts.
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Postby Dalar » Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:50 am

Jaznolg wrote:Just wanted to say thank you, Marthammor. You have had a difficult job handed to you here in the areas sphere, with little support from the forger of the sphere. This place would be pretty screwed without you, and we appreciate your efforts.


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Postby moritheil » Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:24 am

Agreed, Marth is keeping the faith alive.
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Postby Marthammor » Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:24 pm

Would like to thank you guys, the players, for continuing to play and provide feedback on how we, the imms, can make your gaming experience better.
I know it's frustrating at times waiting for us to get around to doing something, but we eventually do. If we don't get to something, keep sending us mmails (unless asked to stop) to remind us of something. I know there are a few of you who send me or areas a mmail every few weeks about the same thing. While it fills up the box, it also lets me know its an important subject and gets a higher priority on my seemingly never ending list.
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Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:01 am
Location: brisbane, australia

Postby Sarell » Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:07 am

Perhaps call it a day and put old jot invasion back and put the effort into a new zone. I never saw jot invasion not done until the new one came in. Add a rare ridiculously kick ass potion to Surtur.
Arishae group-says 'mah sunray brings all the boys to the yard'
Shadow Scream

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