Archery damage

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Gukov
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Archery damage

Postby Gukov » Mon Jul 20, 2009 3:17 am

I'm playing my first char that uses archery, and it seems that my melee damage, unhasted with a basket hilt primary and biting duergar axe offhand, does more damage than archery with fire plane bow and vrock arrows.

Wondering what other people's experiences are with archery... seems like it could really use some positive damage modification. Haven't done much testing tho, just reaction from xping.
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Re: Archery damage

Postby Desirsar » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:53 am

Would be nice that it was a completely viable option in the right situation other than the expensive of replacing arrows. Logically, the best bow from a given zone's drops in the hands of a ranger should deal the same amount of damage over time as the best melee weapon from the same zone in the hands of the same ranger (assuming the zone has a high end drop of each, and equal, max skills for said ranger.)
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Re: Archery damage

Postby Thilindel » Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:55 pm

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=20809

Even though Shev replied, it's another prime example of rangers being sharted on
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Shevarash
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Re: Archery damage

Postby Shevarash » Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:57 pm

Check the news - I undid the majority of the negative modifiers applied to archery damage. Since I didn't know exactly where they were set before I took my best guess at the new values though. I am more than willing to listen to feedback and adjust if needed.
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Re: Archery damage

Postby Ragorn » Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:48 pm

Upgrade Rangers.

y'know, for old times sake
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Re: Archery damage

Postby Thilindel » Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:21 am

There have been so many threads about upgrading rangers..wowza. So much would be in line in game with things that have been brought up:

Nature sneak
more melee damage than f'g rogues
better offensive spells where globe won't block every damned thing they cast..
trip rather than bash
upping rescue above the 1% success rate cap *halo*
and . . .etc.
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Re: Archery damage

Postby Pril » Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:40 pm

Thilindel wrote:There have been so many threads about upgrading rangers..wowza. So much would be in line in game with things that have been brought up:

Nature sneak
more melee damage than f'g rogues
better offensive spells where globe won't block every damned thing they cast..
trip rather than bash
upping rescue above the 1% success rate cap *halo*
and . . .etc.


add trap
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Re: Archery damage

Postby kanenan » Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:30 am

The thread that never ends!

-Grey Elves have Perma Outdoor Sneak.

-Lessen the amount of +hit gear rangers need for melee, keeping on par with the archery requirements of the stat as well as in theme with the master swordplay of bladesong rangers. This could create much more crit/proccage and gives us the options in the midst of battle. Please.. Allow us to DUAL WIELD windsong with procs in offhand. Please. It's restricted enough to not break the game, only certain races can use it, and truly.. BS swords are better anyhow, and a rogue can dual jaris. Nuff said.

-Give rangers Entangle (Druid 9th) at 10th circle, perhaps a quest to get it? Perhaps Flameblade or a single target blind at 9th circle?

-Bashing is for warrior types, it's what rangers fall into, tripping is for thieves and scoundrels! Up rescue notch/dodge cap. Honestly, a chance for failure on ranger bash is fine, I've tanked endless hours of Pship xp etc and rarely failed a bash.. the rescues however and hits landed on me could cause very grievous situations.

-Trap will be cool when it works.
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Re: Archery damage

Postby Pril » Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:26 pm

Maybe give rangers same bash bonus when they dual wield that pallies get when they 2h?
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Danila group-says 'afk, machine gun in backyard started shooting cats'

Danila group-says 'afk a sec, 3 horned monkeys trying to steal hose'

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Re: Archery damage

Postby Botef » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:41 pm

half-orc dire rangers please, blind/hex/mounted combat ftw -p.s.
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Gukov
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Re: Archery damage

Postby Gukov » Fri Jul 24, 2009 12:56 am

If the thread turns into a huge 'change this class' thread I doubt anything will get done...

It would be nice if archery damage were at least to fall into some happy medium between hasted and unhasted melee damage, particularly with relatively top end equipment. It's easy enough for an archer to have their attacks broken by being engaged as well.
Adriorn Darkcloak
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Re: Archery damage

Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:44 am

kanenan wrote:-Grey Elves have Perma Outdoor Sneak.

-Lessen the amount of +hit gear rangers need for melee, keeping on par with the archery requirements of the stat as well as in theme with the master swordplay of bladesong rangers. This could create much more crit/proccage and gives us the options in the midst of battle. Please.. Allow us to DUAL WIELD windsong with procs in offhand. Please. It's restricted enough to not break the game, only certain races can use it, and truly.. BS swords are better anyhow, and a rogue can dual jaris. Nuff said.

-Give rangers Entangle (Druid 9th) at 10th circle, perhaps a quest to get it? Perhaps Flameblade or a single target blind at 9th circle?

-Bashing is for warrior types, it's what rangers fall into, tripping is for thieves and scoundrels! Up rescue notch/dodge cap. Honestly, a chance for failure on ranger bash is fine, I've tanked endless hours of Pship xp etc and rarely failed a bash.. the rescues however and hits landed on me could cause very grievous situations.

-Trap will be cool when it works.


I agree with almost everything Kanenan has said, especially the bold part. I've said for years and years that the melee engine is messed up, because you get, as a ranger anyways, too many rounds of 2hits and 1hits even when hasted and with 31hitroll. That's garbage. Our dodge skill is also horrifically maxed at 60. Up it to 75 or 80 please. Rescue, meh...up to you guys.

I disagree however with spells. We should get no more damage spells please. Our damage is based on our weapons, not on a spell. Casting a spell for 2 rounds means 2 rounds less damage. Giving us haste to quest at 50 would be better. Feel free to delete call lightning and control weather, as these are more druid-type spells/skills, not ranger. That and they are crap. Delete wind too.

The spell OR skill that we really need is remove poison, which is something that rangers would have figured out how to do in nature with different natural poisons or whatnot.
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Re: Archery damage

Postby kanenan » Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:20 am

Firstly, this is a thread about archery damage, but as you know.. anything that has to rangers usually gets all the EXACT SAME requests.. I think I've covered them to prevent more pages than necessary of hijacking.

It is extremely difficult to talk about archery when rangers went for such a LONG time without it. For me.. I didn't mind as I rp'd swords rangers years before I ever discovered this game. So in essence we need to discuss everything that needs a nudge before we discuss archery.

I will comment on it, tonight a Scorx group formed up. 6 rangers. Each with BS swords. When asked in gsay, only one ranger said they were going to arch.
Something really really needs to be done to archery to make it something people want to use. These guys all had warbows/magma bows. So why wouldn't they want to unleash a flurry of arrows on the dragon?

Really it's gonna take a breakdown/reworking if what Eilistraee posted in a different ranger thread is true : the knobs are broken and/or don't work. Although I do know Shev has been twiddling with the dials very recently. In my own case with a 6/6 ironwood bow or 0/6 kirin bow, firing tb/sm arrows.. it just isn't attractive to me and only do so if the enchanter asks me to or if we're up against a dragon.. and more and more I don't even do that vs dragon. It's a safety net to at least be visibly doing Something when your globe falls mid-fight, forcing you out of melee. But then you can't fully take advantage of it because you are cursed wearing alot of +hit ( 35-39 is the magic number ) and archery demands Wisdom and Damage Roll.

Nog I agree with the above Adriorn.
I was looking at Dire Raiders spell list and druid spell list for a good amount of time, we all know call lightning is about as useful as .... . It was an idea at least to give us something practical, entangle being the most especially b/c we do get TVP which is a blessing and they sorta make sense together.
I overlooked slow poison for sure. That would be very nice indeed.

Although we get natures blessing, it isn't enough. Perhaps double/triple it's effects? That would allow us to wear some more damage gear. It would make the spell mean something. Hell I would trade control weather and call lightning for that. I have one spell that control weather is affected by. Can you guess it? Call @#$^!!&!& Lightning. I've used call lightning to clear rooms full of kobold babies. Man I ever glad I got that spell.. I can see how it may have been intended to be used with outdoor sneak and tvp.. but the cast time is so long you are aggrod before you cast.. It's not even useful in trollbark.. where almost** every other ranger skill is actually useful.

While we're here and now that we have a good disarm skill... has anyone thought about replacing dust devil?
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Adriorn Darkcloak
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Re: Archery damage

Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:17 am

You know why people weren't arching at Scorx Kan? Because if you misfire you basically lose your arrow in that fight. Which goes back to another big problem with archery. Good arrows cost good money. Losing them because you misfire one into some random mob, or because it sinks, or because leader forgets to go back or can't go back to get them really blows. Why wasn't this made automatic is my question. I don't have to clean and sharpen my swords every 2 fights, so wtf do I have to manually collect arrows?

Btw, it's not slow poison I want, it's remove poison. But I guess you could add slow poison at low level and remove poison a little higher.
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Re: Archery damage

Postby kanenan » Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:07 am

Yeah Adriorn, that needs to be considered as well.

I've lost plenty of quested arrows to misfire, especially when it was (re?)introduced.
Even now I feel like a gimp when I have to ask the zone leader to backtrack or wait while I find misfired ammo. Sometimes the group is moving fast enough that I'll sacrifice 200 p or w/e on some raven fletched just so we can keep moving and so I don't blush on the real life side of the screen.
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Re: Archery damage

Postby Delmair Aamoren » Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:00 pm

Having only played a ranger in the early years of toril/sojourn, i'm not sure i'm qualified to add my opinion here, but i'm going to do it anyway. There are a lot of comments above that i agree with, and a few i don't. First, archery does need a tweak. Give it a little more dmg, and for gods sake fix the loosing arrows scam. Wherein it applies a great plat sink, its crappy to make the rangers be the source of money leaving circulation.

As far as changing their spells, i think they have it pretty darn good as it is. I can see very little use for call lightning, but there are a couple small instances where its useful. Remember, you're not an invoker, you're a ranger. The utility spells you have are the bread and butter. Barkskin/natures blessing/pwt, etc. As for upping natures blessing, maybe a little, but 2-3 times would be silly.

Skills? yes, give them trip. Bash doesn't make as much sense. Dodge, they should be masters of dodge and parry. Just don't give them defense as high as warriors or any shield skill whatsoever.

That being said, i'm not sure they need their hit/dam increased all that mightily. I think their potency comes from number of attacks, not huge damage with each attack. decreasing weight so u can dual windsongs would be a great example of how to fix this. bloodstone swords were a great addition to help exemplify this. I remember the days of old with dawns fire proccing doom all over the place. This wasn't a great thing, but i liked the idea of a sword that proc'd a druid spell. How about instead of blur, a sword is created that proc's like 3-4 flame blade spells?

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