another use for money

[irta]

I was thinking another way to create more of an economy on the mud is to allow people to go to a trainer, give him a buttload of money and he'll train you rather then doing conventional xp. By buttload, I'm thinking 100k to level 46 (and probably not allow training beyond that point). This will allow active players who hate xping to get their xp another way. Also, people will need to sell items at auction to raise the 100k, thereby creating an economy.

the Irta

[Dalar]

*gets out some popcorn and waits for the idiot police*

[Gura]

not even gona go there lol

[Yayaril]

8)

*Comes riding in on a motorcycle with a flashing red and blue light and siren*

In the name of the idiot police, I arrest you!

*Claps a pair of manacles around Dalar's wrists and chains him to the end of the bike. With a earth-shaking rev, Yayaril takes off on the bike, dragging Dalar off behind him*

[mynazzaraxxsyn]

Nice one Yay, I'd like to see that again in slow motion this time please.

[moritheil]

I was thinking another way to create more of an economy on the mud is to allow people to go to a trainer, give him a buttload of money and he'll train you rather then doing conventional xp. By buttload, I'm thinking 100k to level 46 (and probably not allow training beyond that point). This will allow active players who hate xping to get their xp another way. Also, people will need to sell items at auction to raise the 100k, thereby creating an economy.

the Irta

I know of few people who would sell a 100k item to get level 46. Even the heavily overinflated gythka auction capped at under 100k.

You're suggesting that people will want to quest hard for months, chasing lots of rareloads and checking for reboots, only to turn it all in for xp which can be done at any time. Do I understand correctly?

[irta]

I know of few people who would sell a 100k item to get level 46. Even the heavily overinflated gythka auction capped at under 100k.

You're suggesting that people will want to quest hard for months, chasing lots of rareloads and checking for reboots, only to turn it all in for xp which can be done at any time. Do I understand correctly?

You sound as if you think doing lots of zoning and questing hard isn't fun. ;)

The reality is you earn 100k. What do you do with it? At least to some, an appealing option is to buy a new high level character to play with. Sure, timewise you may have spent more time raising the cash then it would have taken you to xp, but that was time spent having fun, something that isn't true about xp most of the time for a lot of people.

Not that I'd be adverse to have the figure be lower. I mentioned 100k for the simple reason that in most cases earning the 100k is more time consuming then xping. This would probably be true for 50k as well.

the Irta

[Thilindel]

Exp'g sucks! Make a shrine that costs someone 'x' to raise a level! *nod me* but mega leveling is way too powerful to me :P Allow a player to buy a level once per mud day, week, whatever. It'd be a different avenue. Lots of nights, people keep playing to 'just hit that next level'. *cheer* Irta for such an unorthodox, but intriguing idea.

[Bilraex]

there are enough plvld lvl 50 noobs who dont know where BG is already, lets not add to that population

[irta]

there are enough plvld lvl 50 noobs who dont know where BG is already, lets not add to that population

While a couple people might conceivably give a friend a 100k to give them a high level character to try out, I think by and large most people are going to spend this money to new characters for themselves

[moritheil]

I know of few people who would sell a 100k item to get level 46. Even the heavily overinflated gythka auction capped at under 100k.

You're suggesting that people will want to quest hard for months, chasing lots of rareloads and checking for reboots, only to turn it all in for xp which can be done at any time. Do I understand correctly?

You sound as if you think doing lots of zoning and questing hard isn't fun. ;)

The reality is you earn 100k. What do you do with it? At least to some, an appealing option is to buy a new high level character to play with. Sure, timewise you may have spent more time raising the cash then it would have taken you to xp, but that was time spent having fun, something that isn't true about xp most of the time for a lot of people.

Not that I'd be adverse to have the figure be lower. I mentioned 100k for the simple reason that in most cases earning the 100k is more time consuming then xping. This would probably be true for 50k as well.

the Irta

Uhhhh

Teach me how to earn all this mad cash! I have never earned 100k and probably never will - the highest I ever got was like 60k, and that was back when plats were nearly worthless so people would pay steep prices for my spare gear.

Zoning and questing are the ultimate fun. I'm not sure that trading off the results is fun too, though. ;)

Bilraex does make a decent point. Let's have the autoleveler, if it goes in, take you to a decently high level, but not 50 or 46. Perhaps 35 or so. Of course, this just makes the cost even less worth it. You should get it pro-rated for levels you already earned, too.

[irta]

Uhhhh

Teach me how to earn all this mad cash! I have never earned 100k and probably never will - the highest I ever got was like 60k, and that was back when plats were nearly worthless so people would pay steep prices for my spare gear.

Zoning and questing are the ultimate fun. I'm not sure that trading off the results is fun too, though. ;)

Bilraex does make a decent point. Let's have the autoleveler, if it goes in, take you to a decently high level, but not 50 or 46. Perhaps 35 or so. Of course, this just makes the cost even less worth it. You should get it pro-rated for levels you already earned, too.

First off, I'll be happy to teach you, my son. Secondly, since a 100k is decently hard to earn, it doesn't seem unbalancing to let it earn you a level 46 character. Those with less ample funds can buy a 35. I want the 46 as then I can go straight to zoning and questing. With a 35, a lot of xp still awaits which is what I'm trying very hard to avoid as it isn't fun.

I don't think it'll happen too much given the cost, but if people do buy characters for their friends, this isn't going to make them much more noobish then if they spent a few boring days pleveling in DS. And the person who spent the 100k is going to have a vested interest in enlightening these people about the mud.

the Irta

[Sylvos]

Sorry Irta, but the idea is dumb. If you buy a level to 46, you will be a liability and likely get players killed.

You will have no skills.
You will have no knowledge of your class skills.
You will endanger everybody who is with you by your ignorance.

Dying and getting others in your group killed because you have no knowledge of your class or ability to employ your class is not fun.

[Orku]

Yeah I agree, should be no autoleveler what the price is. AS much as i want to be level fifty, i wouldn't use it. I actually enjoy exping, i get to meet people, so running around in DS, or where ever you exp, isn't useless if you make the most of it, witch isn't hard. It gives you friends, and great experiences.

[irta]

Sorry Irta, but the idea is dumb. If you buy a level to 46, you will be a liability and likely get players killed.

You will have no skills.
You will have no knowledge of your class skills.
You will endanger everybody who is with you by your ignorance.

Dying and getting others in your group killed because you have no knowledge of your class or ability to employ your class is not fun.

Compare this to someone who plevels a 46. What's the difference?

the Irta

[Ashiwi]

Sorry Irta, but the idea is dumb. If you buy a level to 46, you will be a liability and likely get players killed.

You will have no skills.
You will have no knowledge of your class skills.
You will endanger everybody who is with you by your ignorance.

Dying and getting others in your group killed because you have no knowledge of your class or ability to employ your class is not fun.

Compare this to someone who plevels a 46. What's the difference?

the Irta

Your way would be pleveling supported by specific game mechanics. It's not like they can stop pleveling from happening without taking drastic measures, but why support it?

[Treladian]

It would be much more reasonable to allow money to be used to buy skill notches above what you can get at a guildmaster. A lot of us know how various skills we have can do, but may not have the time to devote solely to raising it via repetition.

[Sylvos]

Sorry Irta, but the idea is dumb. If you buy a level to 46, you will be a liability and likely get players killed.

You will have no skills.
You will have no knowledge of your class skills.
You will endanger everybody who is with you by your ignorance.

Dying and getting others in your group killed because you have no knowledge of your class or ability to employ your class is not fun.

Compare this to someone who plevels a 46. What's the difference?

the Irta

Well, through pleveling they get at least a basic knowledge of the class, such as how to actually cast certain spells and whatnot.

That little bit aside, there's very little difference. So why should we put in yet another means to have uneducated newbs along in groups who don't do their job, don't know their job and make the trip worse for everybody? As Bilraex said, there's enough of an issue with people who don't know how to play their characters. Let's not hand them yet another way to reach that point.

[Ihazim]

although i think irta's idea is a stretch with the past trend of implemented code, i think she does a good job of highlighting money as it is is 1-dimensional on this mud. Or maybe irta just wanted a way to get some exp with all her money :p. anyways im all for creative ways to spend our money.

[Guw]

How about, after you reach 50 you can buy a notch for 10kp.. maybe a few enchanters would be happy to pay this?

[irta]

Well, through pleveling they get at least a basic knowledge of the class, such as how to actually cast certain spells and whatnot.

That little bit aside, there's very little difference. So why should we put in yet another means to have uneducated newbs along in groups who don't do their job, don't know their job and make the trip worse for everybody? As Bilraex said, there's enough of an issue with people who don't know how to play their characters. Let's not hand them yet another way to reach that point.

I agree with. But, that said, there needs to be a better way then repetetive, mind-numbing xp. One simple idea that would mark pleveled characters of all stripes would be to have who display their playtime. Leaders could then make a more informed decision about whether or not to bring the four hour old illusionist zoning or not. Imperfect of course, what with permaAFK characters and the simple fact that people get up to speed at different rates but a start.

the Irta

[Ambar]

Irta you buy a/an (insert caster type here) , I will buy a warrior .. then lets go to meilich mages and xp there. I promise to bash all targets with my new warrior's skills .... and I will trust your qc to keep me alive ...

[irta]

Irta you buy a/an (insert caster type here) , I will buy a warrior .. then lets go to meilich mages and xp there. I promise to bash all targets with my new warrior's skills .... and I will trust your qc to keep me alive ...

As I envision it, you'll pay for one level at a time, and if you're have any sense you'll practice at guildmaster and then minor 1000 rations and such (i.e. same thing plevelers do). This doesn't help with the greater issue of not knowing how to use the character well but neither does pleveling.

[Ashiwi]

Irta, what you're missing is that pleveling is NOT an encouraged thing. Of course we all do it, because we get sick of exp, but it's not something the forgers have ever seemed to want to encourage among the general mud population. Yes it exists, yes we've almost all done it, but that doesn't mean it's condoned, and it certainly doesn't mean the staff would want to foster an environment where it's not only condoned and encouraged, but there is also a method of going about doing it using game mechanics implemented specifically for that purpose.

[irta]

Irta, what you're missing is that pleveling is NOT an encouraged thing. Of course we all do it, because we get sick of exp, but it's not something the forgers have ever seemed to want to encourage among the general mud population. Yes it exists, yes we've almost all done it, but that doesn't mean it's condoned, and it certainly doesn't mean the staff would want to foster an environment where it's not only condoned and encouraged, but there is also a method of going about doing it using game mechanics implemented specifically for that purpose.

Not condoned eh? Let's fix it then. For some ideas off the top of my head

1) if someone more then 10 levels higher then is you in your group, you get nada for xp.

2) a rule that buffing characters more then 10 levels lower then you for the purposes of xp is illegal.

3) if you attack a mob he's worthless xp to anyone more then 10 levels below you (at least until he's fully healed and all negative spells such as blind have worn off)

the Irta

[Ruxur]

irta, you are not allowed to speak in the tird person, that right belongs to the rux!

[Kifle]

Irta, what you're missing is that pleveling is NOT an encouraged thing. Of course we all do it, because we get sick of exp, but it's not something the forgers have ever seemed to want to encourage among the general mud population. Yes it exists, yes we've almost all done it, but that doesn't mean it's condoned, and it certainly doesn't mean the staff would want to foster an environment where it's not only condoned and encouraged, but there is also a method of going about doing it using game mechanics implemented specifically for that purpose.

Not condoned eh? Let's fix it then. For some ideas off the top of my head

1) if someone more then 10 levels higher then is you in your group, you get nada for xp.

2) a rule that buffing characters more then 10 levels lower then you for the purposes of xp is illegal.

3) if you attack a mob he's worthless xp to anyone more then 10 levels below you (at least until he's fully healed and all negative spells such as blind have worn off)

the Irta

1) don't group the person, get the mob to awful almost dead (ie. nearly slain by the force of your blah blah) and flee...let the caster spell it to death.

2) if you make it illegal to stone a n00b or bark a n00b a lot of us would be in tons of trouble because I know lilithelle used to well to various n00bs to barkskin them when she wasn't doing much, as i have had enchanters do to some of my smaller chrs because they didn't know it was me. Also, I can have dscales and bless/armor/bark/etc. but you know what, i don't really kill all that much faster, i just spend less time healing which is almost exactly like watching paint dry. So when you buff a small chr they are still killing by themselves, learning how to play, etc...

3) I know of a few viable instances where there would be a level 50 and a level 40 grouping together on ship exp, in jot or another easier zone where a level 40 chr would still be useful. Also, a level 10 and level 20 chr would no longer be able to kill out at BGR or SSC or wherever you people exp at anymore.

There really is !way to stop pkilling by code. If you try you end up screwing the people that earn their exp as well as those that don't, and i'm guessing that's one reason the gods have wisely chosen not to do this.

Anyway, this topic is beyond any form of becoming a reality, so just think of another way to spend money...there used to be a topic on it with pretty good ideas around here somewhere, just ask mori to teach you the c 'res thread' spell and have a hay day. You threw the idea out, the gods haven't answered yet which should be one sign that it isn't going to happen, but also the players have obviously told you it wont fly...drop it before this turns into some geh flame war.

[Zoldren]

10 k / skill point, once skill is over half way to max on that skill
100k / lvl past 20th lvl
500 k / lvl past 30
1000 k / lvl past 35
5000 k / lvl past 40-46

would make the cost/reward/earned all even out

[Guest]

Damn...obviously I'm gonna have to hack Zoldren and steal his plats.
I think its dumb to buy experience. But it would be kewl to pay for extra skill notches (which would suck up time in the practise session, too) that you normally couldn't have, to a point. like letting mages have five or ten more dodge points, at HIGH cost, past the 'max'. And make the guildmasters who can do this hard to get too, and questy...
I also think that zones should be worth more xp...cuz its retardly pointless and boring to sit on smoke or ship and kill the same mobs over and over and over and over and over and over....has NOTHING to do with a RP environment. I especially dont see what i could possibly learn after killing WD cappy for the zillionth time, even if i did keep my trophy clear. So make it useful to go to zones. Make trophy more important after you fix zone xp. Personally, my enchanter outta get more than one or two notches for surviving (and helping to keep the whole group alive) a tough several hour zone full of nasty fights with uberpowerful mobs.

[kiryan]

newbiness is definitely not a function of time invested leveling up your char.

How many people can you think of that can pick up a level 50 in any class and play it a week and be better than people who been playing it for months the hard way?

Buying exp with cash is a strange idea. The question is what does it really buy you to imp this? You make money somewhat more valuable to those that are interested in having alts.

Newbies will not be able to use this feature until there is a real economy or an alternative way to produce money other than selling l3wt pieces of gear. Newbie is gonna make what maybe 2,000 plat from 1-35 if they master loot and forget to split? Now do tehy spend that on gear (from a high level player who wants to spend it on exp) or on exp. Wait how many real newbies are there?

I don't see how this idea brings anything to the game.

[Cordan]

I think I have a good comparison to what Irta is trying to suggest.


Paying for training/experience.

I took Karate for several years, paid money to do it, got trained to do many moves (skills), and earned belts (levels).

There are several major differences i suppose, like actually "testing" for a belt, where as in game, you'd simply fork over the cash.

Questing levels has always been a fun idea imho. Pay (enormously) money for training, have training set up like spell scribing is where you can't do anything else for awhile, then have the guild master give you a quest. Lots of quests to set up, for sure, but it'd be neat if it could be done.

[Arilin Nydelahar]

Best use for money = Thanuk's mom.

[Delmair Aamoren]

i like the inference cardolan, and sickening enough even in RL you can BUY levels, as in some people aren't even forced to test... and then look at them in a real life combat situation, or even sparring other well-trained people of their belt.

Anyway, the idea of buying exp is REALLY lame.

If you have that much money spare, perhaps you should be giving more eq to friends and quit being so durn greedy. If you don't have enough friends to give stuff to, go make some. I for one have never had a huge mass of cash, and i've given plenty of things away, i only sell/trade for what i need. once i'm at that point, the rest just goes to whomever is deserving that i happen across first.

I believe money will be more sought after once guildhalls are implimented, also on a personal note, in the past i've heard of a few personal "homes" being implimented. i don't know if this is a feasible reality, but who knows. There has to be a better solution for money.

If you really want to buy levels, buy them with EXP! *nod me*
As it stands now, the lower levels (especially 1-41) are CONSIDERABLY
easier than they used to be. Even without powerleveling it is really pretty simple to level a character up in reasonable time while building those all important skills. Especially with the equipment that is available if you buy some for your new alt. Anyhow, don't make the process any easier than it is now.

[irta]

i like the inference cardolan, and sickening enough even in RL you can BUY levels, as in some people aren't even forced to test... and then look at them in a real life combat situation, or even sparring other well-trained people of their belt.

...

If you really want to buy levels, buy them with EXP! *nod me*
As it stands now, the lower levels (especially 1-41) are CONSIDERABLY
easier than they used to be. Even without powerleveling it is really pretty simple to level a character up in reasonable time while building those all important skills. Especially with the equipment that is available if you buy some for your new alt. Anyhow, don't make the process any easier than it is now.

In reality, it's more like paying for some concentrated training by one of the very best of your class. His pointers are going to be as valuable as mindlessly killing 1,000 ferns without the benefit of a seasoned trainer's wisdom. Of course, this is because xp as it currently stands is a joke in terms of evalulating a character's competence.

the Irta

[Delmair Aamoren]

Yes irta, but believe it or not, muscle memory is a good portion of the reflexes and skills of a seasoned warrior. Your skill needs to go beyond calculating what to do when an attack comes at your head, your reaction needs to be that your arm is already there. And because your body has done it 10000 times before, it's more likely to do it subconciously. And yes, this DOES occur without a seasoned trainers wisdom.

There is a finite amount of information one can recieve and process by just observing. You can read books on many topics, and be very learned in what i refer to as "book knowledge", but after awhile the learning curve tapers off. The only way to truly learn is by doing. Buying is not doing.

I still stand that buying exp is rediculous. Anyone who would even think of such an idea is not the kind of person i'd like to be associated with. I prefer to play with people who enjoy playing the game, not improving their status by buying their way through life. NOBODY likes those people.