alignment

[kiryan]

donating to your favorite god could shift your alignment and serve as a plat sink as well as getting rid of the TP/AKO alignment parties that really serve no purpose except to punish certain classes and making neutral alignment harder to keep.

Why does it take a conscious effort to maintain neutral alignment while you basically can not change good or evil without at least a couple hours of directed effort? if your gonna allow alignment to shift so easily perhaps neutral should range from -550 to 450...


I recognize that there are benefits for being neutral however the most compelling reason to be any given alignment is eq (cept for classes with alignment restrictions).

[Ambar]

As I see it, you should have to pay attention to alignment. As I see it, you should pay attention to what kind of mobs you kill, else why even BOTHER having alignment restrictions?

I see this plat sink alnog the same lines of the buying stats ...

No

[Birile]

As I see it, you should have to pay attention to alignment. As I see it, you should pay attention to what kind of mobs you kill, else why even BOTHER having alignment restrictions?

I see this plat sink alnog the same lines of the buying stats ...

No

I disagree, it's not even close to the idea of buying stats. I mean, gimme a break. This is actually a good opportunity to, say, allow an evilrace character to RP that he's neutral or good aligned. It's almost impossible otherwise for an evilrace (or goodrace evil aligned) to shift alignment. You claim that you should pay attention to the mobs you kill. Yeah, well, take one of your evilrace characters, go to someplace like SF or CC and zone there non-stop and see how far your alignment shifts. Yeah. Thought so.

I personally prefer to keep my characters neutral, so this doesn't really apply to me personally, but it's still a great opportunity to allow this sort of RP atmosphere. And sinking plats is always good, isn't it? I don't mind the current -350 to 350 range being neutral, I don't think it needs to be expanded, so I suppose I disagree with Kiryan there.

[Ambar]

I know a snake who took his alignment to gold aura

my position still stands

thanks :)

[Birile]

I know a snake who took his alignment to gold aura

my position still stands

thanks :)

And that's wonderful. I'm happy for him. I'm saying, he probably put in an insane amount of time to get that alignment shift, and praying to the god of your choice isn't necessarily a foreign concept on Muds. Besides, it's not like I'm saying I should be able to fork over 10K plat to go from -1000 to 1000. Maybe just move the align 10 points per 1k plat given as tribute to the proper god or something. If people wanna do that, why should anyone complain?

[Grizz]

I suppose if you liken this to RL(bear with me here) if you are feeling guilty that you are a bit too evil, you go to church and confess and that makes you feel a bit better about yourself.

I don't see this as being a bad thing. Just make it expensive to do it this way. Though when you stop to think about it, the money that you are paying tribute with is probably money you took from the good/evil mobs that you killed. Does that even things out?

[Arilin Nydelahar]

It's a cop out :P If you want your alignment to change, you work at like anything else on this mud. The whole idea of paying cash for it just seems bogus, it's to easy.

There's enough crap in the game to spend cash on, make a rogue(if you don't already have 3 of them like some), buy crap from the auction and hand it out to noobs, there's tons of other things you can realistically spend cash on. But if someone who's evil race wants to change alignment that bad, or someone who's just evil align wants to change well then they have to work on it, or they should have thought about the alignment option when they rolled the char if given the choice.

[Gurns]

Maybe just move the align 10 points per 1k plat given as tribute to the proper god or something. If people wanna do that, why should anyone complain?

Because it cheapens gameplay, and reduces the need for grouping/interaction with other players. If you care about your alignment, there are ways to move it. To move it off -1000 requires more effort than to move it from anyplace else, and it's easier with a group. Money, on the other hand, is simple to get. Even I could get 1K in a few days of soloing (and not extraordinarily long days), and my mud knowledge, my skills, and my equip are not the best.

So, instead of actually having to know what to kill to move my align, or get together a group of people to do it, I could just endlessly kill certain mobs. IMNSHO, the mud should encourage learning the mud and interacting with players, and not mindless, rote "powerups".

[Nurpy Fuzzyfeet]

I got from 1000 alignment to -500 in about 3.5 hours. Its easy.

If you are evil going good its a bit harder til you find the right mobs, then its not too difficult if you are determined.

Going good from evil is SUPPOSED to be hard, and going evil from good is already easy enough.

No =p

[Treladian]

I'm going to again put forward the suggestion to make certain quests cause alignment shifts. I mean, helping that priest of Cyric murder several people is probably going to leave more than a few splotches in your karma (and would also probably get many neutral clerics excommunicated in PnP) while going out of your way to help lift a curse from someone without a promise of reward (speaking in character obviously) would probably shift you more towards birds spontaneously singing when you're around. Obviously longer quests would have more of a shift and most quests wouldn't have any at all. Introducing a few quests that do nothing except produce an alignment shift would also be viable if some of the items were !rent to prevent hording and be much harder to repeat than just dumping money somewhere.

[moritheil]

I suppose if you liken this to RL(bear with me here) if you are feeling guilty that you are a bit too evil, you go to church and confess and that makes you feel a bit better about yourself.

I don't see this as being a bad thing. Just make it expensive to do it this way. Though when you stop to think about it, the money that you are paying tribute with is probably money you took from the good/evil mobs that you killed. Does that even things out?

Grizz, that thinking sort of skirts around the good/evil question. Does feeling better about yourself make you a better person?

Donating money may make you feel better, but I don't know about the wisdom of implementing a system wherein someone who goes and slaughters thousands of innocents can donate a portion of the proceeds to restore their align. That doesn't speak of "good" to me. YMMV.

[moritheil]

It's a cop out :P If you want your alignment to change, you work at like anything else on this mud. The whole idea of paying cash for it just seems bogus, it's to easy.

Agree Arilin!

In other news, the gelugons have taken over the Abyss.

[kiryan]

in what religion is donating monatery wealth not considered to be an act of worship and faith.... in practice and in theory...

you do not need to worry about evil alignment nor do you need to worry about good alingment. it is virtually impossible to accidently go from good to neutral or from evil to neutral.

It is a constant work to maintain neutral alingment that I think is wierd.

I think neutrality would be far less a matter of debate than being good or evil. You do something sefless your less evil, you do something selfish your more evil. You do some good things some bad things people consider you more average mostly a good guy never done anything truly evil.

being neutral should not be such a chore to maintain. In particular, I think its silly that druids shift alignments so easily and have to invest so much in maintain neutrality. THey are neutral by definition, they should have to work hard to become good or evil and certainly not do so by accident.

[mynazzaraxxsyn]

in what religion is donating monatery wealth not considered to be an act of worship and faith.... in practice and in theory...

In Satanism it is not.

[Artmar]

in what religion is donating monatery wealth not considered to be an act of worship and faith.... in practice and in theory...

worship, yes, faith, no, and it's a matter of practice, not theory. If you look at all major religions, you will find that practice of donating money to the church is not present at the beginning, it appears later on.

you do not need to worry about evil alignment nor do you need to worry about good alingment. it is virtually impossible to accidently go from good to neutral or from evil to neutral.

Not really, rather it's hard to imagine accidentally moving upward on alignment scale (evil to neutral/good, neutral to good)

It is a constant work to maintain neutral alingment that I think is wierd.

Maybe a toggle could be implemented that (if turned on) would prevent (or seriously slow) your alignment from shifting upward. (sliding towards evil would still be possible, though.

[fotex]

Well, tithe-ing is already implemented on the mud at any bank, it just doesn't seem to do much besides eat up your wallet. Maybe it could be changed to alter alignment in some way...? :?:

[Salen]

Giving money to a church just to make up for something bad you did doesn't make you less evil.

[kiryan]

worship yes - showing that your obedient / contributing to spreading the religion

faith yes - showing that your trusting in the religion / deity to provide for you, showing that you believe at a complete enough level to give what most people prize above all else away.

matter of pratice yes, its praticed in many religions around the world as a matter of necessity to spread the religion as well as seemingly to buy grace in some churches.

matter of theory yes, its documented in several religious texts in different religions (albeit a lot are similar).

----
Doing bad things doesn't make you evil, wanting to do bad things makes you evil.

if we accept the judeo/christian definition of evil it simply means things that do not involve or go against God... thats one reason why good people who dont accept christ/god go to hell in some Judeo/Christian churches, thats how some wars and killings were justified.

---
regardless why should maintaining a neutral alignment be several orders of magnitude harder than evil or good.

[Artmar]

faith yes - showing that your trusting in the religion / deity to provide for you, showing that you believe at a complete enough level to give what most people prize above all else away.

......

matter of theory yes, its documented in several religious texts in different religions (albeit a lot are similar).

Giving away your wealth (in part or in full) to those in need is called charity, and is something else than the practice of donating to your church. The second one is part of worship, but has nothing to do directly with faith.

Besides, say, you commit a sin, go to the church, donate money to pay for what you've done, and then come out to commit the same sin again - don't you think there's something wrong with that picture? (and that's what we would have here if that "buying align" system was implemented).

Doing bad things doesn't make you evil, wanting to do bad things makes you evil.

So if you want to do good things, but they turn out bad, it's ok? You know what they say: "The Hell is paved with good intentions"

regardless why should maintaining a neutral alignment be several orders of magnitude harder than evil or good.

Here i completely agree. Maintaining neutral alignment should be far easier than remaining good (but still not as easy as staying evil).

[Ashod]

aside from the first few posts shouldn't this be in the general discussion area? :P

[Ashiwi]

Tithing is a normal function of many religions, and fulfilling your bargain with the church does not affect your ratio of good to bad. If you tithe, you're doing what the church requires of you, but if you don't tithe THEN you have to worry about losing points in the hereafter. It's like driving laws... obeying them doesn't make you a good person and in no way adds to some "good driver/bad driver" toteboard, it just means you're playing within the rules and staying out of potential trouble; it's when you start breaking those laws that you start to see results from outside agencies. Hell, the fact that I've never had an accident hardly even affects my insurance costs.

There's a philosophy for you... the state of your soul is like your driving record... you start out with nothing, and you can only go down from there. If you find yourself becoming less than nothing, it takes hard work to get back to a state of nothingness.

[Sservis]

I disagree, it's not even close to the idea of buying stats. I mean, gimme a break. This is actually a good opportunity to, say, allow an evilrace character to RP that he's neutral or good aligned. It's almost impossible otherwise for an evilrace (or goodrace evil aligned) to shift alignment. You claim that you should pay attention to the mobs you kill. Yeah, well, take one of your evilrace characters, go to someplace like SF or CC and zone there non-stop and see how far your alignment shifts. Yeah. Thought so.

Hsievssruk is neutral. He was good for a bit to do some testing, but wandering mobs that occasionally go into his guildmaster room that are aggro good align meant that good align wasn't viable

It is possible.