Lucky token

[auslyx]

From what I hear, dying obviously sucks, but failing ressurrection sucks worse. What if there were a quest available for an item that made res failure virtually non-existent? Dying is bad. The XP loss is worse. Failed res would just suck.

[rylan]

Thats a pretty cool idea.

[Ashiwi]

Because there are supposed to be consequences for dying. Nobody likes them, but you're not supposed to like consequences, are you? There's very little challenge left in the game, as it is.

[Lenefir]

When you have exp enough to be like imaginary level 60 or higher losing exp to a failed ress is hardly noticable, and some don't even care leaving their corpses to rot because they find the resurrection fatigue boring (just noticing some corpses at the same obvious spot day after day after day (but of course they might be corpses after a failed resurrect))...
When you're lower level and straining hard to come to a zoneable level, trying hard to get your skills maxed up and get your quest spells, losing exp to a failed resurrect is nothing but time consuming imho. For some classes getting exp back is easy to the point of people whining about it, for other/most classes it's nothing but tedious, boring, and wasted time. And I really find it annoying to lose maxed skills when you die and lose a level :(

So... if I could choose between doing a quest that for one single time, or a couple of times, would allow me to get a failsafe resurrect or to spend that same time doing exp I personally would prefer the quest.

[Birile]

From what I hear, dying obviously sucks, but failing ressurrection sucks worse. What if there were a quest available for an item that made res failure virtually non-existent? Dying is bad. The XP loss is worse. Failed res would just suck.

Um... let's just make it easier and say you get all of your exp back as soon as you loot up. I mean really, guys, yeah it sucks to fail a res--especially for some classes--but it still happens relatively rarely, even for races with less than good con or people who rolled a crappy con. Are we really that desperate to make the game this much easier? Besides, the people who really truly need this--new lowbies--would probably have a difficult time doing this quest, and if the quest were easy enough for a lowbie to do, it would just be twinked by everybody and their brother and when it came time to res you would hear cries of "Oh shit, I left my token on my thirteenth alt, res me later." :roll:

If ya wanna put some sort of level restriction on this type of thing so that it wasn't useable once you hit level 20 or so, then it would eliminate the total twinkiness of it, I suppose. But much higher and I don't see this as a good thing at all.

[Sesexe]

From what I hear, dying obviously sucks, but failing ressurrection sucks worse. What if there were a quest available for an item that made res failure virtually non-existent? Dying is bad. The XP loss is worse. Failed res would just suck.

Auslyx,

It's an interesting concept you have there, but unfortunately it's not really needed and would be entirely to twinkable. If there was an item that made sure a player didn't fail ress, it would have to be something that is used up when you are ressed, or players would just use it over and over and over again. Why is that a bad thing? Well it's just like Ashiwi said, you have to have consequences for dying. Years ago on a previous incarnation of this MUD, if you failed a ress, you also had a chance to loose a constitution point permanently. Well that feature was pulled out and now we are left with just an exp loss.

Your idea has merit tho, but it sounds like you haven't had this problem of failed ress just yet. To be honest, once you play this game for a period of time, you'll learn where to exp and how to exp best. In this day and age the players here are all about maximizing their exp gain when they do exp. This often results in small groups. I digress. My point is, soon you'll learn how to exp like a pro like the rest of us and a failed ress becomes nothing more then a minor annoyance. This is especially true because not too long ago the exp tables were changed, so that exp from 46th to 50th is a big crunch compared to the other levels. So leveling up it it's not a big deal, and then when you're 46+ you're zoning anyways, and then again, it's not really a big deal either (unless you're an enchanter, in that case everything I said is mute).

[kiryan]

whats ress fail percent, like 6% for some races, 4% on average?

its already trivial.

[auslyx]

well, what if you were to wear the token while being ressed and it's used regardless. like a cost of admission? I heard of maxxer? an invoker by the inn who was saying he'd failed 3 resses and was not level 50. From what i've seen you lose almost 1/4 a level, which is huge. Do you feel if you quested a token (just sticking with that word for a lack of understanding what eq slots are called) that would be consumed only if you are afraid of fail is too much? I find it hard to level, let alone find someone willing to group with me. I don't even know anybody who does ressurrect actually.

Oh yeah, isn't the consequence of death having to re-establish your skills and spells so a considerable time slow, I see this to be a problem if you are in a group? I just learned you lose xp even when ressed, so failing just seems extreme?

[Artmar]

I find it hard to level, let alone find someone willing to group with me. I don't even know anybody who does ressurrect actually.

In that case don't you think it would be rather hard for you to quest for such a "token" (or that you might die trying to get one)?
Consequently, if you were able to group more, you would find out that losing 25% of xp, while can be a pain, is not THAT terrible (that of course depends on your class/level - but for low to mid levels you're likely to get that XP back in time you would lose finding a resser/getting ress/waiting out ress fatigue)

Oh yeah, isn't the consequence of death having to re-establish your skills and spells so a considerable time slow, I see this to be a problem if you are in a group?

You have to remem your spells whether you got ressed or not. Actually, the time delay is greater if you DO get succesfully resurrected, due to a fatigue affect.

Things were different when there was a possibility of losing con due to failed ress, but now you're losing only time (and remember that questing would take time as well)

In short, i don't see a reason to introduce this "token" idea. It is not really needed (and dying IS supposed to hurt, you know)

[rylan]

I think if it cut your chance of res failure in half then it would still be sought after by lots of people, and the chance to fail res is still there. If the 'quest' item or whatever had to be worn as mention, and is transient then it poofs upon res because it hits the ground... hence only good for one use so you have to do the quest again.
Actually I wouldn't mind even if it was an item that you bought from your guildmaster for a certain amount of money... with higher levels costing more.

[auslyx]

I'm glad you guys can see what I'm saying. I was thinking a bit further about it. What if when you know you will be ress'd you go the a church or 'pray'? whatever command and have a Tithe that you can call up. Pay xx coins and you are 'spiritually blessed.' Then you just have an aura rather than something you wear. I just say this because the invoker Maxxler? said he was 50th level but when I saw him and his corpses that failed, he was only 48th level. That is days of exping. I'd really love seeing a safer way to do things. I understand Atmar's thinking about the quest idea of the token, and I imagine people would feud in order to quest so the aura idea seems less invasive. Thanks for you guy's input! When I get further into levels, I imagine I'll understand better but at this point, I'm very afraid of hitting high levels because when I wander around, some mobs almost kill me on the first hit. Hard to explore, but this mud sure is detailed! I'm very glad it was recommended.

[Sesexe]

Going to a church and praying or paying a tithe..

I kinda like that idea. It's a sort of a throw back to the old generic mud way of getting restored to life after you died and became a spirit. ;)

Wondering something now. What if instead of using it for a successful ress chance increase, you could drag your failed-ress corpse instead to this 'church' and pray for a blessing on it to receive a chance to ress the corpse again, but the chance at successful ressing a failed ressed corpse would be at an even more increased chance of failure and still random? What if you paid for a blessing the chance the re-ress would fail would be reduced? What if the cost to enchant your corpse was dependant upon the corpse level? So low levels were paying low money, and high levels are paying higher amounts of money?

*scratch*

EDIT: I suppose instead of level based, it could just be experienced based. So.. 1 exp = 1 copper? or 1 exp = 1 silver? or 1 exp = 1 g?

[auslyx]

That idea sounds great to me. I alread have some gold but can't seem to buy items well because you are clueless at shopkeepers. I assume the money would be way better invested in keeping my exp!

[Ashiwi]

Okay, now there's an idea I can swing with... paying a hugely exorbitant amount of money to an NPC priest to ress a failed corpse.

[Birile]

Maxxler? said he was 50th level but when I saw him and his corpses that failed, he was only 48th level. That is days of exping.

It's not fair to bring up Maxler... he's... "special" if ya know what I mean. :lol:

[Sesexe]

Btw, just to make clear what I was suggesting when going to this 'church':

Option 1
Pay for a blessing on your failed ress corpse so that a PC can attempt to re-ress you at an increased chance of failure again. A standard rate for this. 100p? Normal failure is 6% chance, this would be 12% chance to fail the re-ress from a player?

Option 2
Pay a mob to re-ress your failed ress corpse at some rate that makes the more exp the corpse contains, the more money it costs (100p - 1k? or 5k?). Normal 6% chance of failure.

Option 3
Option 1 + Option 2 = 3% chance of failure? Cost min 200p?

[Birile]

Btw, just to make clear what I was suggesting when going to this 'church':

Option 1
Pay for a blessing on your failed ress corpse so that a PC can attempt to re-ress you at an increased chance of failure again. A standard rate for this. 100p? Normal failure is 6% chance, this would be 12% chance to fail the re-ress from a player?

Option 2
Pay a mob to re-ress your failed ress corpse at some rate that makes the more exp the corpse contains, the more money it costs (100p - 1k? or 5k?). Normal 6% chance of failure.

Option 3
Option 1 + Option 2 = 3% chance of failure? Cost min 200p?

I still think all of this makes this game even easier than it already is. It's far too easy for high-level experienced players to use any of these ideas in a twinky fashion. Plats--especially 200???--are nothing to high-level players. I really think if any of these ideas were to be implemented they should be exclusive to very low-level characters, as it is the newbies who have the most difficult time getting a res or finding exp groups since they lack connections on this MUD.

[Sesexe]

Btw, just to make clear what I was suggesting when going to this 'church':

Option 1
Pay for a blessing on your failed ress corpse so that a PC can attempt to re-ress you at an increased chance of failure again. A standard rate for this. 100p? Normal failure is 6% chance, this would be 12% chance to fail the re-ress from a player?

Option 2
Pay a mob to re-ress your failed ress corpse at some rate that makes the more exp the corpse contains, the more money it costs (100p - 1k? or 5k?). Normal 6% chance of failure.

Option 3
Option 1 + Option 2 = 3% chance of failure? Cost min 200p?

I still think all of this makes this game even easier than it already is. It's far too easy for high-level experienced players to use any of these ideas in a twinky fashion. Plats--especially 200???--are nothing to high-level players. I really think if any of these ideas were to be implemented they should be exclusive to very low-level characters, as it is the newbies who have the most difficult time getting a res or finding exp groups since they lack connections on this MUD.

Birile. Read it again. 200p for little players, and like 1-5k for highlevel. The more exp a corpse contains, the more it will cost for option 2. Perhaps option 1 the failure percentage isn't high enough? or there could be a level of the person factor added to it, so the higher level the player is, the higher the chance at failure? Or maybe it's just you're level = your % chance of failure on re-ress?

[Ashiwi]

And institute more rust monsters into the game when this goes in.

::nod me::

[Birile]

Btw, just to make clear what I was suggesting when going to this 'church':

Option 1
Pay for a blessing on your failed ress corpse so that a PC can attempt to re-ress you at an increased chance of failure again. A standard rate for this. 100p? Normal failure is 6% chance, this would be 12% chance to fail the re-ress from a player?

Option 2
Pay a mob to re-ress your failed ress corpse at some rate that makes the more exp the corpse contains, the more money it costs (100p - 1k? or 5k?). Normal 6% chance of failure.

Option 3
Option 1 + Option 2 = 3% chance of failure? Cost min 200p?

I still think all of this makes this game even easier than it already is. It's far too easy for high-level experienced players to use any of these ideas in a twinky fashion. Plats--especially 200???--are nothing to high-level players. I really think if any of these ideas were to be implemented they should be exclusive to very low-level characters, as it is the newbies who have the most difficult time getting a res or finding exp groups since they lack connections on this MUD.

Birile. Read it again. 200p for little players, and like 1-5k for highlevel. The more exp a corpse contains, the more it will cost for option 2. Perhaps option 1 the failure percentage isn't high enough? or there could be a level of the person factor added to it, so the higher level the player is, the higher the chance at failure? Or maybe it's just you're level = your % chance of failure on re-ress?

Regardless, plats are relatively easy to come by, many high levels can easily plop down a cool 5k without batting an eye. There's just not a need for this type of thing in the game for high level characters, no matter how you look at it.

[Birile]

And institute more rust monsters into the game when this goes in.

::nod me::

I love you, Ashiwi.

[auslyx]

What's the point of money in the game? Unless you buy potions, is there a point?

[Birile]

What's the point of money in the game? Unless you buy potions, is there a point?

There are many uses for money in this game, one of the latest additions being the auction hall. Buying items such as potions and poisons is another, as are the multitude of quests this MUD offers. But for something which is actually quite powerful--such as tinkering with the idea of resurrection--plats are really quite nominal. :(

[amolol]

i am against this because an item like this would fall only into the hands of extreemly highclass players. like lilithelle and company. dont get me wrong they are all good people but its hard to get the really good items nowadays unless you are extreemly uber. which is the way it should be... but us middle class ppl need some lovin too. so prety much im against this item because it kills the downside of dying and only top line players would do it.

[auslyx]

The focus wasn't on an 'item' at this point. I really like Sesexe's idea of church/prayer and paying for it. Money is useless here except for potions and 'auction', which returns back to the player...again useless.

How come no imms seem to reply to posts? (maybe I'm not familiar with the names and they really are. sorry if this is the case)

[Sarell]

upgrade trophy downgrade exp tables.....


PS, I don't mind the tithe idea for increased succes / % back... donate 1K to your or the clerics god you get all the exp back or soemthing....

[Gormal]

Make the token transient, and make the quest medium difficulty.

[Birile]

How come no imms seem to reply to posts? (maybe I'm not familiar with the names and they really are. sorry if this is the case)

If the Imms feel the need to give details about why they will or will not implement something, or if they think it's an absolutely brilliant/horrid idea, they'll tell you so. That should be distinguished by the fact that they read every post and consider every idea put forth. :)