Warrior Upgrade

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rer
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Warrior Upgrade

Postby rer » Tue Nov 16, 2004 7:46 pm

It seems like most classes have some kind of class specific quest, whether it's spell, skill or eq. Warriors are the only ones I can think of without such a quest. Just minor examples are as follows (only one-two per class, I am purposefully leaving off many of them...)

Vokers: Many spells and eq (seelie staff?)
Chanters: Many spells
Mentalists: Many spells and eq (elementalist staff)
Necros: Lich
Illus: Shadow Walk
Shamans: Many spells, totem
Clerics: Ress
Bards: Ress Song
Anti/Pals: Un/holy avenger
Druid: Moonwell
Battlechanters: Songs
Psionicists: Psi skills
Rangers: Bows
Rogues: Khanjari's

The point here is that every class but warrior has some class specific quests that either make the character complete or better. Can we get something specific to warriors? A level 45 Quest Skill (Berserker Rage - similar to Khanjari rage, but lowers AC?, or Iron Will - similar to Death Pact?, something?) or some kind of kick ass shield (improves regen rate or has fireshield, or something) that was warrior only (not anti/pal or ranger-able). I just think something to really make warriors complete would be cool. Maybe just make Headbutt a quest skill, but upgrade it back to where it was, with chance to KO for minor para? I have lots of ideas to make warriors better...
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Re: Warrior Upgrade

Postby Birile » Tue Nov 16, 2004 9:56 pm

rer wrote:Can we get something specific to warriors?


You mean like the myriad of amazing quested weapons that can only be wielded by warrior classes? Sure, there's no khanjari for warriors out there, but damn, come on!

I'm not saying I don't think each class should have quested skills--frankly, I think most of every class's high-end skills that are already given to them should be quested, but that's just me. Frankly, I would be glad you don't have to do a quest to get your skills like many of the other classes do.

And on another note--please wait for the melee changes to go into effect (whenever that will be). Adding skills to melee classes at this point could muck up the work that's already been done in this area to date!
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Postby rer » Fri Nov 19, 2004 5:38 pm

Hrm.... didnt know about the coming melee changes.

My point is, it's way to easy to play a warrior. No quested warrior only items are going to make the class any cooler. Just setup a good rescue trigger, and learn how to bash/spunch. I dont think warriors need something like a khanjari, i was just making a point. There is nothing out there that is specific to strictly warriors (ie: not usable by rangers/pals even). To add to Gurns point, we have to do something to keep players engaged, something that's mentally stimulating. Give us a new skill, or make headbutt more powerful again, but make us have to quest it. Shit. Dont make headbutt more powerful, but make us have to quest it! For crying out loud, warrior exp is pretty easy, quests are non-existant, and a warrior can really play decently well with crap eq. Put some challenge into the class!
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Postby kiryan » Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:27 pm

shouldn't there be some "starter" classes that aren't very difficult and perfectly suited for a brand new player?

I typically suggest caster classes since they are less eq dependent, but just a thought.
and tonights winner in the Toril EQ lottery is demi belt and skull earring!
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Postby Dalar » Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:47 pm

I hate the fact that casters only need hp/save gear but melee need hp/save gear AND hit/dam gear. Fix that!
It will be fixed in Toril 2.0.
Aremat group-says 'tanks i highly suggest investing 20 silver in training weapons from cm to cut down on the losing scales to shield'
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Postby Kifle » Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:37 pm

Dalar wrote:I hate the fact that casters only need hp/save gear but melee need hp/save gear AND hit/dam gear. Fix that!


Hitter's shouldn't really be allowed hp gear imo...makes rogues way to easy to play. With evasion + khanjari (or even better, 2khanjaris) area fights are not that scary..especially when you can just escape/hide :)
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Postby rer » Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:51 pm

Having a starter class isn't a bad thing, but being able to turn that starter class into a character that's still fun to play in 6 months when you've learned the mud better would be a good thing too...

It would be really cool if there was some badass, really difficult quest at like lvl 45 or 50 for warriors. Doesn't even necessarily have to give something like Khanjari from the eq perspective, or Dscales from the skill/spell perspective (pointing out the ones that are overpowered...)

I'm just saying, having something more to look forward to as a warrior would be really cool.
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Postby Delmair Aamoren » Sat Nov 20, 2004 9:25 pm

What you mean warriors don't have anything cool? look at all the spob heart items. Not to mention, even tho you claim they have no "cool, warrior specific quests" look at the groups. Warriors are chosen before rangers, antis, and paladins. now there MUST be some reason for that... No need to widen the gap.
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Postby Vahok » Sat Nov 20, 2004 11:27 pm

I think I get Rer's point. Warriors have NOTHING to look forward to after level 40. Throw a dog a bone. We aren't asking for more skills to take away from other classes. We aren't asking for some weapon that will blow all other weapons away (we got Khanjari for that!). Also, using SPOB heart items as example of something cool for is wrong...aren't all heart items cool? Basically, we have quest envy!!!
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Postby Drache » Sun Nov 21, 2004 12:04 am

How bout having a L48 quest for group rescue? It would be like hitall. You have chance to rescue several or all in party, like in Spob, or wherever else there is hell when casters are area'g and groups walk in. Only catch is there would be the lag as if it were normal rescue. Comparing warriors to rangers is bad, but Rangers outrightly suck vs. warrior. I don't know of a leader who would ditch a warrior to have a ranger. Rangers need to be looked at before warriors, imho. So I would hope this is the 'bone' possibly in which you seek :P

It would basically be a full taunt. As in, 'hey, you little fags! Why pick on a caster when I'll beat your asses!' That should get them rescued heh
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Postby Birile » Mon Nov 22, 2004 7:19 pm

Drache wrote:How bout having a L48 quest for group rescue?


OMG Implement this just so I can laugh at the dumb warriors in a group who keep rescuing each other accidentally and then proceed to curse each other out while the group spanks from the mass rescue lag! AFK popping popcorn. :lol:
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Postby Artmar » Mon Nov 22, 2004 8:21 pm

Hmm, what about berserk, then?
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Postby Drache » Mon Nov 22, 2004 8:40 pm

Birile wrote:
Drache wrote:How bout having a L48 quest for group rescue?


OMG Implement this just so I can laugh at the dumb warriors in a group who keep rescuing each other accidentally and then proceed to curse each other out while the group spanks from the mass rescue lag! AFK popping popcorn. :lol:



LOL Hey Einstein! You'd be able to set your values for your rescue list. Yeesh.
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Postby Birile » Mon Nov 22, 2004 9:25 pm

Drache wrote:
Birile wrote:
Drache wrote:How bout having a L48 quest for group rescue?


OMG Implement this just so I can laugh at the dumb warriors in a group who keep rescuing each other accidentally and then proceed to curse each other out while the group spanks from the mass rescue lag! AFK popping popcorn. :lol:



LOL Hey Einstein! You'd be able to set your values for your rescue list. Yeesh.


Scenario:

10 mobs in a room.
3 warriors in the group.
Warrior 1 is tanking Mobs 1-3
Warrior 2 is tanking Mobs 4-5
Warrior 3 is tanking Mob 6
Mobs 7-10 have just switched target.

Assuming each warrior has the ability to group rescue, how does setting any sort of value keep the warriors from attempting to rescue each other once they type the group rescue command (or use a trig based off switch target)? I don't have a warrior so maybe I don't understand and there's some trick to it. Explain?
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Postby Disoputlip » Mon Nov 22, 2004 10:30 pm

You wrote bow next to ranger, that is why i say:
There already is multible quests resulting in items for warriors.
Some race specific items: Grey, Barbarian, Dwarf are also available.

In regards to skill then I think it would be ok if they made a headbutt quest.

But the title of the thread, "upgrade warriors" does not really fit when you already need 2 or 3 warriors to do a zone
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Postby Drache » Mon Nov 22, 2004 11:55 pm

Well, Birile. It could be coded similar to how mobs are agg to alignments, for example. You can tog to rescue clerics, whatever...or just where questing rescue would make it lag free. What is uber-annoying is when you rescue someone, and pre-type bash to keep mob from switching again, but yet they can switch w/o lag. Rescue should not have lag. That's the idea I felt is so simple. At higher 40's a warrior most certainly is a Master, and shouldn't be as limited as a newer warrior. Limitations being that both low and high level warrior can only attempt one rescue per round. A higher warrior can toss himself in a rumble without much regard. Considering a player you just rescued can be immediately switched to again by same mob that just switched (no lag) the rescue should be on the same scale.
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Postby rer » Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:23 am

Diso, good point.

Not really looking to upgrade warriors, just looking for something fun beyond level 40. So, as Vahok mentioned, just looking for some kind of cool skill - doesnt have to be a Meteor Swarm type skill that roXors, but there is definitely nothing questable that is strictly "Warrior" only. At least, not that I've seen... I haven't seen something that's Warrior/Barb/Gnome/Halfling only, which is really about the only way for an item to be goodrace and not usable by rangers or paly's... Not trying to "widen the gap" Dartan, just trying to give something fun to the class. It's boring as hell sometimes.

Make Headbutt a quest skill.
Give Berserk (similar to Khanjari Rage, but only usable 1 or 2x per week).
Flag an item !Pal !Ran, Warrior-Only (shouldnt even be Khanjari or Seelie Staff power, but an ac5 badge would be cool as hell, for example)
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Postby kiryan » Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:52 am

In one sense, warriors gain a little power every level vs a lot of power every 5 levels (for a caster). You may not have much to look forward too in terms of new skills after 40, but there is quite a bit of gain in warrior power between 40 and 50... Extra hps, better skills, harder to hit...

I can see where Rer is coming from, and its a great observation.

However, I would find it very hard to make any weapons warrior only... I can see justification for making some swords ranger only or anti/pal only, but if a basic warrior can wield it why wouldnt anyone else with that weapon skill? There are no "special" requirements or really any special training for being a warrior like there are for other classes... I can see racial justifications, but I can't come up with any reason that any given weapon would be warrior only.

I have long wondered why fighters run out of movement so quickly. It seems they should have an innate ability somewhat equivalent to fly (without being able to pass !ground or water) to traverse long distances without getting tired... Maybe a check every room against a new skill to cost 0 movement?
and tonights winner in the Toril EQ lottery is demi belt and skull earring!

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