Some mage thoughts

Submit and discuss your ideas for the MUD.
Sesexe
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Postby Sesexe » Tue Dec 14, 2004 8:27 pm

Birile wrote:If you read closely, you would see that the reason I argued that invoker procs should be taken out is that their magic damage is so high in comparison to other classes. Sesexe argued that weapons procced so much more than invoker spell procs did without taking into account the amount of damage that invoker spells do along with the procs. It's folly to say that invoker procs should be left in simply by using the argument that weapons proc more during fights without taking into account the disparity in the damage dealt as well.

A waste of time to compare the two, then? Hardly.


OK Birile,

As of now and taking everything said and discussed here, you're argument has now become: Beceause Invokers do so much more damage then melee, their few procs that are utterly undependable as compared to melee, (making them nothing more then trinkets of amusement to a boring class so that it isn't so static) should be removed and given to Illusionists and Psionics BECAUSE they deal with the mind even though Invoker procs, or spells, have nothing to do with mind attacks.


In other words:
-Invokers do more damage then melee.
-Melee proc more often then Invokers and have far more diverse procs with greater frequency.
-Invokers have procs that have nothing to do with mind attacks.
-Illusionists and Psionics deal with mind attacks.
-Illusionists and Psionics should have the Invoker procs instead.

....I'm at a loss.


If you want to see Illusionists and Psionics get procs added to their spells/abilities (which sounds like an interesting idea), then perhaps you should be suggesting just that very thing?

Instead you appear to be trying to justify your ideas by tearing down another class, even one you don't play. That's like me suggesting new paladin ideas by taking them directly from bards, and saying my reasoning is because elementalists have more embodiments that any other class.



PS. I was comparing proc ratio's between an Invoker and melee. I wasn't the one who wanted to compare damage output between the two. That's your deal, and I still don't understand why you keep wanting to mention it or include it when Invoker procs don't do damage or cause damage related effects atm.
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Birile
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Postby Birile » Tue Dec 14, 2004 10:00 pm

You're right, Sesexe. The only way to major para something is to fell frost it. The only way to blind it is with lightning beam. Those procs couldn't possibly be tailored to any present or future illusionist/psionicist spells or skills. :roll: You oversimplified what I said, but you already knew that.

Too, it is absolutely impossible to give illusionists and/or psionicists any other procs other than those found in the invoker class. Again :roll:

If you read my initial post (and I know you did) you would see that taking procs away from invokers and giving procs to the other two classes were rather separate issues. If you read my initial post, you would also see that I already did suggest giving illusionists and psionicists procs to their skills/spells. I'm not tearing down invokers in order to bolster my argument for illusionist and psi procs at all. Again, it's two separate issues.

Comparing what I've discussed on the subject of invoker procs and the subject of illusionist/psi procs with your statement about paladins, bards and elementalists is just plain silly.

Your comparison of invoker proc ratios in relation to weapon proc ratios was incomplete for the very matter that you did not take into account the other factors of the classes, the most basic one being damage output. Thus, I pointed it out. Yeah, in realtime fight rounds it may take longer to land your proc, but the damage you did in the meantime makes up for the lack of proc. And that's not even taking into account that sometimes melee weapons decide not to proc 'til well into a fight and can be just as variable as invoker procs. So you're right--invoker procs don't cause damage (I never said they do). But the spells they're attached to sure as hell do--and a lot more damage than the weapons that melee procs are attached to, at that. So what's more powerful? A spell that does 10000 damage and doesn't land its proc in 3 rounds of battle? Or a weapon that does 1500 damage (I'm being optimistic) and lands its slow proc in those same 3 rounds of battle?

Given invoker spell damage output, losing their procs are really a rather minor downgrade to the class. I didn't suggest downgrading their damage output because damage spells are the basis of the class. Taking away the procs rather than downgrading their damage seems more viable in the RP sense of the class.
Thilindel
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Postby Thilindel » Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:31 am

Birile says "Too, it is absolutely impossible to give illusionists and/or psionicists any other procs other than those found in the invoker class. Again :roll:"

What I don't get is why psi's can't feeblemind in the first place. They should OWN mobs in that department. What would be nice is if they gained the ability to cause target to virtually be bashed because the target's mind feels 'off balance.' I don't know how fine tuned psi's are with recipient's minds are but given their INT, they should
Birile
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Postby Birile » Wed Dec 15, 2004 3:09 pm

I think psi's do have the ability to bash, FWIW.
Azenilsee
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Postby Azenilsee » Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:05 am

This thread is a waste of time. Like Sesexe said earlier, it's not like you can spam out 30 sandblasts and fell frosts in a single battle, and in a zoning situation the usage of these spells is highly situational. The ONLY time I want my spells to proc is when I do smoke xp, and even then it's only because I want each round to be done faster.

Seriously, pick some other useless class to nitpick on.
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Gura
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Postby Gura » Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:38 am

no thanks. downgrade invokers mightily
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