Fumbling in water rooms

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Thilindel
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Fumbling in water rooms

Postby Thilindel » Fri Mar 04, 2005 3:04 am

The other post got me thinking: It strikes me as odd that a weapon fumbled in a water room, in which isn't too deep, or you couldn't _stand_ in it, is permanently lost. I mean, if a halfling is able to stand in the water room, then he fumbles..so what? I totally feel that the weapon shouldn't be gone, just flagged HIDDEN. This just seems straight up common sense. Maybe to teach the fumbler a lesson, have 'search' command in water room eat hps, cuz they're holding their breath whilst searching. Opinions?
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Postby selerial » Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:06 am

I think random chance item destruction is a non-fun action and it doesn't really train a person in anything worthwhile. No-drop weapons have "protection from duckponding", as well as float weapons, which still leaves a number of weapons at the mercy of an effect as powerful as disintegrate - except it's called fumble and anyone can do it.

In my "perfect world" I'd picture that any room with water deep enough to cause your weapon to sink would also have a room below the surface that you could swim to to retrieve the item. If, on the other hand, you have a thin layer of swift moving water.. well, a 10 lb non-floating sword isn't really going to travel very far in those conditions. I think that hiding the item within a random room in or around the water (ie: within one room of the fumble either way) would make sense.

As sort of an aside, I think that there also should be some sort of "ground rules" for mid-air rooms as well. While the mud doesn't technically have any death traps, I do believe there are a few mid-air rooms with no ground below. Never having fallen from one of these rooms I can't say if it would generate an unretrievable corpse, but judging from the help file for fly, it seems it may. Be that the case, it's really a misrepresentation to say that such rooms are anything other than death traps, in so far as that if you manage to fly in to one and lose your aerial motivation, you will die and be un-CRable. I can also say that I've seen a weapon dropped from such a room during combat (a fumble), it appeared in locate object in some room that was clearly not accessible by PCs. My thought is, in the spirit of both "no death traps" as well as sensible fumble management, that players and items dropped from such rooms should land somewhere that makes sense for the location of the mid-air room, most likely within the same zone if possible, or somewhere in a logically surrounding zone if not.
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Postby Llaaldara » Fri Mar 04, 2005 5:26 pm

Thil,

You're just talking about rooms you don't need a raft/boat in? or those too?
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Postby Thilindel » Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:12 pm

just ones you can literally walk in, er without a raft/levitate. I imagine if you need a raft, there's quite a ways a weapon or something would drop. If you did need levitate, they could still make it flagged HIDDEN, but that'd give a good use for waterbreath eq :P

While back, I saw Kavik drop all.ruby in seelie (while he was CR'g himself) and he dropped all those seelie swords and 2 of whatever those quested ruby warrior rings are. Now it does seem rings that are dropped would be quite hard to search out, but still, if you can wade thru water, then you SHOULD be able to search for stuff in that room.
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Postby rer » Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:25 pm

I agree with you ThRil. If you can stand in the water, it stands to reason that you can see and/or feel the bottom with relative ease.
Thilindel
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Postby Thilindel » Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:33 pm

rer wrote:I agree with you ThRil. If you can stand in the water, it stands to reason that you can see and/or feel the bottom with relative ease.

Hey, now I'm a cheap thRil :P
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Postby Duna » Fri Mar 04, 2005 8:18 pm

Thilindel wrote:
rer wrote:I agree with you ThRil. If you can stand in the water, it stands to reason that you can see and/or feel the bottom with relative ease.

Hey, now I'm a cheap thRil :P


but it's better to be a cheap thRil than an expensive one, right? :)
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Postby rer » Fri Mar 04, 2005 9:17 pm

Duna wrote:
Thilindel wrote:
rer wrote:I agree with you ThRil. If you can stand in the water, it stands to reason that you can see and/or feel the bottom with relative ease.

Hey, now I'm a cheap thRil :P


but it's better to be a cheap thRil than an expensive one, right? :)


That depends... is he getting a share of the profits??
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Postby Llaaldara » Sat Mar 05, 2005 8:57 pm

Thilindel wrote:just ones you can literally walk in, er without a raft/levitate. I imagine if you need a raft, there's quite a ways a weapon or something would drop. If you did need levitate, they could still make it flagged HIDDEN, but that'd give a good use for waterbreath eq :P

While back, I saw Kavik drop all.ruby in seelie (while he was CR'g himself) and he dropped all those seelie swords and 2 of whatever those quested ruby warrior rings are. Now it does seem rings that are dropped would be quite hard to search out, but still, if you can wade thru water, then you SHOULD be able to search for stuff in that room.


That's a cool idea. That fumbled/dropped items would then become hidden within the room instead of gone forever. Means if it happens during a battle, you can't just pick it back up cuz you can't search it out.

SWEET!

Make it so! :D
Boboloppe
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gotta disagree

Postby Boboloppe » Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:01 pm

it's not that hard to use a cursed or float weapon in a water room I'd rather see coder time speant on things that will have a bigger effect on the mud.
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Postby teflor the ranger » Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:19 pm

Llaaldara wrote:
Thilindel wrote:just ones you can literally walk in, er without a raft/levitate. I imagine if you need a raft, there's quite a ways a weapon or something would drop. If you did need levitate, they could still make it flagged HIDDEN, but that'd give a good use for waterbreath eq :P

While back, I saw Kavik drop all.ruby in seelie (while he was CR'g himself) and he dropped all those seelie swords and 2 of whatever those quested ruby warrior rings are. Now it does seem rings that are dropped would be quite hard to search out, but still, if you can wade thru water, then you SHOULD be able to search for stuff in that room.


That's a cool idea. That fumbled/dropped items would then become hidden within the room instead of gone forever. Means if it happens during a battle, you can't just pick it back up cuz you can't search it out.

SWEET!

Make it so! :D


ThRilindel it is!
Thilindel
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Re: gotta disagree

Postby Thilindel » Sun Mar 06, 2005 7:56 pm

Boboloppe wrote:it's not that hard to use a cursed or float weapon in a water room I'd rather see coder time speant on things that will have a bigger effect on the mud.


When you pond that rare-load or dragon fight only weapon, maybe you'll eat those words. It's stupid to lose a weapon forever in a room you can STAND in.
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Postby Ambar » Sun Mar 06, 2005 10:08 pm

Had to love the tell I got a couple years ago ...

"Ambar, I fumbled your skullsmasher on our way to SG....it sunk"

(it was reimbursed later .. the room was incorrectly flagged as water)

dunno if I agree with EITHER option, can we have SOME challenge in the game? :( we keep making it easier and easier and we keep asking for more and more silly things ... soon there will be nothing to EVER fear, no eq loss fear, no skill involved at all ... just a mechanical game ...


watch the room, watch your weapon .. or .. yeah curse it ....
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Postby Thilindel » Sun Mar 06, 2005 11:05 pm

But it's not really 'silly' when logic dictates that a weapon cannot just disappear when it's only fallen three feet away. Unless you're a vertically challenged anklebiter - a.k.a. "halfling" :P
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Re: gotta disagree

Postby kiryan » Sun Mar 06, 2005 11:53 pm

Boboloppe wrote:it's not that hard to use a cursed or float weapon in a water room I'd rather see coder time speant on things that will have a bigger effect on the mud.


The point is that its freaking wrong to fumble and lose your gythka forever in a room described as a small stream no more than 12 inches deep.

And fudge, if I pitched doombringer into the ocean you can guarantee id pay hundreds of thousands of plat for a search team to find that sucker. And we would find it.
and tonights winner in the Toril EQ lottery is demi belt and skull earring!
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Re: gotta disagree

Postby teflor the ranger » Mon Mar 07, 2005 1:47 pm

kiryan wrote:The point is that its freaking wrong to fumble and lose your gythka forever in a room described as a small stream no more than 12 inches deep.


"Oh noes! It is lost foreber!"

"Dude. It's like, sticking three feet out of the water."

"I'll neber have another like it again!"
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answer me this

Postby Boboloppe » Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:41 am

how many really good weapons are actually not flagged cursed or foat.

btw gythka is float
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Llaaldara
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Postby Llaaldara » Wed Mar 09, 2005 6:44 pm

tic tac tic tac tic tac

I just like how a person couldn't just instantly pick up their weapon again that fell in water, and that they'd have to search around for it. I thought the idea was kinda realistic and neat and could be applied to all weapons, even those flagged as float.

*shrug*
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Postby Llaaldara » Wed Mar 09, 2005 6:49 pm

PS. I always thought the float flag was retarded. Even the most powerful fantasy sword I can think of, Excalibur, didn't float. It sunk, but when it fell in a stream you could still see where it was. It wasn't gone forever to the lady of the lake retarded like we have here.

Teflor's humor isn't that far off from the absurdity we have here.
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Re: answer me this

Postby kiryan » Wed Mar 09, 2005 7:38 pm

Boboloppe wrote:how many really good weapons are actually not flagged cursed or foat.

btw gythka is float


what exactly are we arguing here. are we arguing whether it should happen or whether specific items can or can not be lost?

if i pitch any weapon even a crappy one or drop any piece of eq in a small stream, i should be able to reach down and pick it up. in deeper water I should be able to get a mage to find it or whatever.

if you fumble crap in a fight and it crashes you shouldnt lose it either. it wouldnt matter if it was flagged float then would it.
and tonights winner in the Toril EQ lottery is demi belt and skull earring!
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Postby Vahok » Wed Mar 09, 2005 10:16 pm

Ambar wrote:Had to love the tell I got a couple years ago ...

"Ambar, I fumbled your skullsmasher on our way to SG....it sunk"

(it was reimbursed later .. the room was incorrectly flagged as water)

dunno if I agree with EITHER option, can we have SOME challenge in the game? :( we keep making it easier and easier and we keep asking for more and more silly things ... soon there will be nothing to EVER fear, no eq loss fear, no skill involved at all ... just a mechanical game ...


watch the room, watch your weapon .. or .. yeah curse it ....


110% agree. Pay attention to leader during water rooms, look yourself if needed. I'm all for idiot proofing things since I am an idiot but damn...
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Postby rer » Wed Mar 09, 2005 10:22 pm

Yeah, last time I checked, water rooms were flagged water... So, it is easy to check...

However, it is not realistic that if you drop a 4 foot long, 20 pound sword into a stream, it would be lost forever.
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Postby Ashiwi » Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:07 pm

I'd be all for removing water rooms... and adding real threats to PC equipment.


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Postby selerial » Thu Mar 10, 2005 5:55 pm

A different thought occurred to me, but it's sort of hard to justify in terms of "reality", such as this mud is.

What if you fumbled your weapon in to your inventory, but had a random, relatively high percent chance (or even 100%) of it becoming hidden? Then, you'd have the basic effect of not being able to use your weapon but it wouldn't be *too* hard to retrieve after the battle (put all bag, search bag).

Naturally, this idea has a major flaw in that it upgrades a fumble from "no weapon for a round or two" to "no weapon for the rest of the fight", and it also negates the chance that a mob can pick up the weapon and use it against you, which is presumably a gameplay element that is intended to stay.

So, it's just an idea, but maybe someone can run with it to make it more reasonable.
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Postby kiryan » Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:13 pm

unless there is something magical going on, nothing is unfindable. however, dropping something in the ocean may take some more time and be more expensive to find than something in a pond.
and tonights winner in the Toril EQ lottery is demi belt and skull earring!

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