Plane Shift for Shamans!

[Rho]

as the only cleric class without it, it is time we got it!

nuff said.

Rho

[amolol]

i never did see why youguys didnt get it.

[Lahgen]

Shamans are leet enough as it is.

[Ambar]

as the only cleric class without it, it is time we got it!

nuff said.

Rho

Would be easier, but why?

Shaman already get oober spells like spirit walk, group heal, scry remains, ancestral shield, etc

Unless you'd give up one of those spells for pshift

every class has it's niche ...

I'm sure every lich at CR times hates sitting in their guild until they can be transported back in .. but it wouldnt be right to give them planar travel since they have so much else going for them ... (they are a mage class after all .. and every one else has gate/relo)

[alendar]

dont liches get like soul walk and life walk now?

[Birile]

dont liches get like soul walk and life walk now?

Not unless they changed things since I've been away. Pretty sure those are necro-only features.

[Nekelet]

dont liches get like soul walk and life walk now?

No.
Also can't be a target for either.

(unless there's been a recent change)

[Pril]

as the only cleric class without it, it is time we got it!

nuff said.

Rho

The Only cleric class that doesn't get it? Pallies and Anti's don't get it either! And we don't get word of recall! *nod self*

Pril

[Yasden]

I'd rather spirit walk work with a plane or a pcorpse as a target instead of giving them pshift.

[Birile]

as the only cleric class without it, it is time we got it!

nuff said.

Rho

The Only cleric class that doesn't get it? Pallies and Anti's don't get it either! And we don't get word of recall! *nod self*

Pril

N00b, you're not a cleric class. Cleric classes are Clerics, Druids, Shaman and Battlechanters, duh.

[Disoputlip]

Hehe, go to meileich and make a club with the shaman there.

[Pril]

as the only cleric class without it, it is time we got it!

nuff said.

Rho

The Only cleric class that doesn't get it? Pallies and Anti's don't get it either! And we don't get word of recall! *nod self*

Pril

N00b, you're not a cleric class. Cleric classes are Clerics, Druids, Shaman and Battlechanters, duh.

N00b, Paladin's are a mix between the Fighter and the Cleric Class, we get cleric spells up to cleric 7th circle. Go back to singing and prancing.

[Birile]

as the only cleric class without it, it is time we got it!

nuff said.

Rho

The Only cleric class that doesn't get it? Pallies and Anti's don't get it either! And we don't get word of recall! *nod self*

Pril

N00b, you're not a cleric class. Cleric classes are Clerics, Druids, Shaman and Battlechanters, duh.

N00b, Paladin's are a mix between the Fighter and the Cleric Class, we get cleric spells up to cleric 7th circle. Go back to singing and prancing.

N00b, just because you get cleric-ish spells doesn't make you a cleric class. Try wearing cleric-only gear, bish.

[Pril]

as the only cleric class without it, it is time we got it!

nuff said.

Rho

The Only cleric class that doesn't get it? Pallies and Anti's don't get it either! And we don't get word of recall! *nod self*

Pril

N00b, you're not a cleric class. Cleric classes are Clerics, Druids, Shaman and Battlechanters, duh.

N00b, Paladin's are a mix between the Fighter and the Cleric Class, we get cleric spells up to cleric 7th circle. Go back to singing and prancing.

N00b, just because you get cleric-ish spells doesn't make you a cleric class. Try wearing cleric-only gear, bish.

N00b, we get clericish spells and we want more! I say give pallies word of recall and res!

[Rho]

Let's focus again to the original item :)

As for getting these really cool skills/spells . . . I believe all the classes have cool spells like moonwell for example. Nice transport spell that didn't prevent access to plane shift. Resurrect is another example, pretty spank spell that didn't prevent access to pshift. Spiritwalk is nice but requires a body and prevents the wanderlust felt in the hearts of many. Of course granting shamans the spell could add to the body count. A change to make is planar would be a nice adaptation without giving the "plane shift" spell. I just believe it won't take anything from the game but it would provide shaman's an opportunity shared by nearly all caster classes at wandering the realms.

Again, make the change or grant us the spell! :)

[Ashiwi]

So, exactly why is it that shamans "need" the spell?

[Ambar]

So, exactly why is it that shamans "need" the spell?

buahah exactly

they don't :)

I say if ya like pshift .. roll a cleric or druid :P

want ress?? roll a cleric

stop making every class the same :) let each have it's niche

[Rho]

So, exactly why is it that shamans "need" the spell?

I say if ya like pshift .. roll a cleric or druid :P

want ress?? roll a cleric

stop making every class the same :) let each have it's niche

With such sound logic like that why not give relocate or gate to one mage class then? I mean it stands to reason *using your logical approach* it's wasted on the rest.

It's seems only a few have a problem with the request so if it bothers you . . . read another post or push away from the PC and get some sun light:)

[Lahgen]

A majority of yes or no votes doesn't make something right or wrong.

I don't know, I'm just not sure we should be giving added functionality to classes, even if they make sense on the surface. If we start doing that, we'll start losing track of balance.

After all, why don't invokers and necromancers have armor spells? It's all magic, right?

[Ambar]

and THAT was my point Lahgen , sometimes I just geta little wrapped around the axle and can't say exactly what i want ..

Rho, keep the ideas coming, thie IS an ideas forum ... but learn to deal with criticism if you put ideas out people don't like :)

*hug*

[shalath]

Take pshift away from Druids (who are tied to the prime material plane and nature) and give it to Shamen (who are tied to the spirit world and clearly the ideal planeswalker).

[Ashiwi]

Actually, my thought was that if you could use a reason like "all casters should have this spell" then I would think it would only be fair to give the spell to all classes. Pshift would give shamans instant access to the Smoke plane, among others. So do all classes deserve that, or should there be logic behind why they get it? If not all classes deserve it, then there are going to be classes with it, and classes without, and just stating that you're part of the only class that doesn't have it among a larger set that does isn't a valid enough reason to give it to them.

What are the specific reasons the shaman class "needs" pshift?
Considering what the shaman has already, would pshift be in line, and would it be balancing?
Are there other classes that should have pshift removed following the same logic?
Would the removal of pshift from those classes be in line, and would it keep them balanced (as far as they can be)?

Actually, I agree with Shalath that druids really have no place having a pshift spell, as their sphere is the Prime Material Plane. The issue I have with taking it away from them is that so many players have been playing druids for so long now, with the understanding when they rolled them up that pshift was part of the package. So many players have been playing shaman for so long now, with the understanding that pshift wasn't part of the package. If you're going to give such a MAJOR alteration to a class, then there should be very sound reasons for it, and the other classes should be able to follow the same logic.

Yes, pshift is a major alteration. Ask ANY class that doesn't have readily available self-propelled off-prime access.

[Disoputlip]

If there was a spirit plane. (a real one, not the one made up for shaman quests, ie something prolly flagged prime). Then I would see it as obvious that shamans was able to instantly travel to it using a spell. (or snorting muchrooms)

There isn't such a plane. The plane that comes closest is etheral. So mabye it would be a: pshift with only target etheral plane. That would be obvious. (no, still not travel to the other plane with spirit render).

I know norse shamans took some drugs and let their spirits travel to places and asked their ancestors questions. That is sort of plane travel.

It could be used as an escape spell (together with word), but if it was 9th level then my guess is few would have it prayed perment.

[Birile]

Take pshift away from Druids (who are tied to the prime material plane and nature) and give it to Shamen (who are tied to the spirit world and clearly the ideal planeswalker).

I'm frightened to say, actually, that this makes much sense. Implement promptly.

[Ashiwi]

Yes Birle, it does make sense to a point. If you look at it from another angle, however, shamans are tied to the spirit world of their ancestors, which doesn't imply a link to the elemental planes, and I don't believe it would imply a link to either ethereal or astral. You could argue that their spiritual travel could be limited to the Prime Material Plane, unless you want to get into more contemporary views and also link that to "astral" travel. At that point, their communion with spirits is limited to prime and astral, and I don't remember any literature that allowed them physical traverse to either, as their physical selves were left behind while their spiritual selves were the ones who travelled.

[Lahgen]

Moreover, I think the reason that druids have pshift at all is that, at least in 2nd edition, druids gradually gain the ability to travel to elemental planes at will or something like that.

[Kifle]

Take pshift away from Druids (who are tied to the prime material plane and nature) and give it to Shamen (who are tied to the spirit world and clearly the ideal planeswalker).

I'm frightened to say, actually, that this makes much sense. Implement promptly.

Uh...yeah, damn, that makes too much sense. I'll third that one.

[Verarb]

Take pshift away from Druids (who are tied to the prime material plane and nature) and give it to Shamen (who are tied to the spirit world and clearly the ideal planeswalker).

I don't give a rat's ass if shamans get pshift or not.
I don't give a rat's ass if druids lose phift or not.
I don't give a rat's ass if shamans get suckass doom or suckass well.
But, the way you're going about lobbying for it sucksass.

Why cannibalize an already suckass class to augment what is already considered a balanced or overpowered one?.

PS. This rant isnt because im biased towards druids if it were any other suckass class i would feel the same.

PPS. this is just a whole lotta ass.

[Ashiwi]

Who are you and what did you do with our sweet V?

[Delmair Aamoren]

Who are you and what did you do with our sweet V?

I dunno, but i like it!

I have refrained from commenting til now, because initially it seemed like an
easy "no" clerics don't get pshift. all mage classes have relocate but one, so
why not make all cleric classes get pshift but one? Sounds like a plan to me.
To be honest, i see merit in a lot of what is said above, that druids have
their strongest ties to nature and perhaps the prime material planes, but
ultimately, they are tied to the elemental planes if i remember correctly.
Nature is a mix of fire/air/earth/water and in some cases wood (depending
on which system you're in). I say leave it how it is now. corpsewalk was
a great addition to give shaman some traveling capability. We don't need
every caster class to have access to the outer planes.

Nobody has gotten into the drawbacks of the other "priestly" classes.
Druids are mostly only effective in nature rooms. Clerics don't have much
offense. Shaman are a good mix of both, but don't get pshift. Where is
the problem?

[Nurpy Fuzzyfeet]

We don't need pshift.

[Pril]

We don't need pshift.

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[50 Warrior ] Nurpy Fuzzyfeet, Slayer of Trolls (Halfling) (RP)
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Nice man, noone wants to give warriors pshift :p *grin*

Pril

[Rho]

corpsewalk was
a great addition to give shaman some traveling capability

Where is the problem?

The problem is it requires a body. I asked because I felt access should not be restricted or limited to the "CR" of someone. Yes, shaman can be considered a somewhat "Jack of all trades" but what also goes with that is "a master of none" When in groups I have seen shamans present for group heal or ancest. shield and a back up vitter. I'm sorry but there is more to the class than that. I know some that have commented on this speak from experience where as others have never played the class and their opinions reflect it.

I raise this question at least annually and I will do so again. Thanks all for the feedback.

[shalath]

I don't give a rat's ass if shamans get pshift or not.
I don't give a rat's ass if druids lose phift or not.
I don't give a rat's ass if shamans get suckass doom or suckass well.
But, the way you're going about lobbying for it sucksass.

Why cannibalize an already suckass class to augment what is already considered a balanced or overpowered one?.

Hey, I'm not lobbying. I just inserted some "common sense". It's a game, based in a certain fantasy setting. That setting has self-contained realism, and a change like this would make the game fit more within the context of that "realism".

I don't give a rat's ass about balancing those classes. I'm lucky. I don't have to. It's not my job. I'm just putting in a suggestion which I think fits. It's someone else's job to deal with balance - the immortal's. I'd probably be no good at it anyway :-)

-shalath

[Nurpy Fuzzyfeet]

We don't need pshift.

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[50 Warrior ] Nurpy Fuzzyfeet, Slayer of Trolls (Halfling) (RP)
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Nice man, noone wants to give warriors pshift :p *grin*

Pril

*cough* I have a shammy fyi =p

[Pril]

I know i was just amused :p

[Yasden]

Again, I'll just state for the record...

I would personally rather spirit walk be slightly changed so that you can use a plane as an argument as well as a pcorpse.

c 'spirit walk' smoke
c 'spirit walk' moritheil

Along this same mode of thinking, I also really think scry remains and spirit walk should be two separate quests (you can make spirit walk a lot harder if need be). You can use the same quest mob for them, but two quest spells from 2 different circles means you have to wait until 41 to do the quest anyway, even though you get scry at 36th.

[Birile]

Clearly the only solution is to implement Planeswalkers to stifle this debate, as well as the necro/lich with gate/relocate debate. *nod me*

[Birile]

Yes, shaman can be considered a somewhat "Jack of all trades" but what also goes with that is "a master of none" When in groups I have seen shamans present for group heal or ancest. shield and a back up vitter. I'm sorry but there is more to the class than that.

Being a bard, this made me chuckle. :wink:

And no, I'm not crying boo hoo that bards need an upgrade. I just think it's funneh that you should cry about only being able to group heal, ancestral shield and backup vit in a group when bards are asked to... group heal and... oh forget it, skip the "and."

But don't worry, I didn't laugh near as hard as I did when I read Verarb's post calling druids "suckass" and calling shamans "overpowered." :twisted: :D :twisted: If I thought he was being sarcastic I wouldn't have laughed nearly as heartily.

[fotex]

How about this to balance out shaman's getting a form of planeshift - make it so that shaman planeshift would use up a totem charge? Or make it so that you ride (and sacrifice) a spirit to get to a different plane?

[Birile]

How about this to balance out shaman's getting a form of planeshift - make it so that shaman planeshift would use up a totem charge? Or make it so that you ride (and sacrifice) a spirit to get to a different plane?

That's kind of a steep cost, especially given the fact that shaman already don't like the fact that they only get a limited supply of pets in a set amount of time.

[Kifle]

Most shaman only use their pets to solo. When I played my shaman, I hardly used my totem charges past level 40 or so unless I was solo grinding. At level 50, your spirit becomes less and less of a worry. I'm guessing most shaman would trade a spirit chance for a chance to check demi for a rare real quick.

[Ambar]

Most shaman only use their pets to solo. When I played my shaman, I hardly used my totem charges past level 40 or so unless I was solo grinding. At level 50, your spirit becomes less and less of a worry. I'm guessing most shaman would trade a spirit chance for a chance to check demi for a rare real quick.

I wouldn't ..

[moritheil]

Again, I'll just state for the record...

I would personally rather spirit walk be slightly changed so that you can use a plane as an argument as well as a pcorpse.

c 'spirit walk' smoke
c 'spirit walk' moritheil

Along this same mode of thinking, I also really think scry remains and spirit walk should be two separate quests (you can make spirit walk a lot harder if need be). You can use the same quest mob for them, but two quest spells from 2 different circles means you have to wait until 41 to do the quest anyway, even though you get scry at 36th.

I don't really see why. Planeshift is, while not a great spell, not a terrible quest. Heck, Gate is a joke. Why should Spirit Walk have to be made more powerful for emulating one tenth the usefulness of Gate?

BTW, I don't think balance between spells or any such are the original reasons for denying planeshift to shamans. Essentially shamans were limited as much as possible in this respect because they are features of barbs and evilraces, and originally part of the limiting factor of barbs and evilraces was the annoyingness of transit. Giving them planeshift would help make it less annoying. Of course, that isn't the thinking now, if the newer spells such as spirit walk are any indication.

[Nekler BlazingWolf]

As a shaman, sure, I'd love to have planeshift. I don't see it as making or breaking the class if we get it or not. However, after looking at some suggestions others have given, how about the following:

As per Yasden's idea, the spirit walk spell is used with a plane as a target but you must also have your spirit companion at your side to guide you to that plane. Of course, the chance of the spell failing and you landing in a random location in the zone should be increased when trying to go to a diffrent plane.

[kiryan]

i thought plane shift wasnt a shaman spell for theme. Druids are known to walk the elemental planes, shaman I thought were more tied to the material plane and could contact the spirit plane.

I'd like the shaman "relocate" spell from homelands, it pops you into the "spirit plane" and you walk through it and the agros to find the "portal" that takes you to your target.

A far more useful spell would be one that allowed them to return their spirit pet and resummon later or to "summon" their spirit pet back to them.

[Nurpy Fuzzyfeet]

Most shaman only use their pets to solo. When I played my shaman, I hardly used my totem charges past level 40 or so unless I was solo grinding. At level 50, your spirit becomes less and less of a worry. I'm guessing most shaman would trade a spirit chance for a chance to check demi for a rare real quick.

Shaman totems strengthen spells. I always use mine in a zone unless the zone leader specifically tells me not to.

[Lilira]

Hmm.

If you're going to tell me the Astral plane shouldn't be able to be contacted by a shaman, there goes the basis for alot of the current "New Age" faiths out there.

No I'm not trying to start a rl religion war. :P

Merely stating that spirits are supposedly contacted through a veil that separates the living and the spirits. Now, according to fantasy type stuff, if someone wished to travel the astral plane, they left their bodies behind. Hullo, last time I was there I had my gear. *wink*

There is no fantasy reason why shamans should not be able to roam the astral plane at the very least. Since it might be a nightmare to code just that, why not just give them pshift. Its not like they get well or relo, so they still have to walk alot.

Just my 2c.

[moritheil]

Planeshift is, while not a great spell, not a terrible quest. Heck, Gate is a joke. Why should Spirit Walk have to be made more powerful for emulating one tenth the usefulness of Gate?

Let me correct myself here: my intent was to ask why the Spirit Walk Quest should be made harder if you tacked on the plane shift function to the spell.

I think, at this point, everyone thinks that it's okay thematically on some level, whether or not additional hoops to jump through are required (i.e. needing to walk around agro spirits. )

The real question is, does anyone think it's unbalanced?