Calling all PetClasses

[Nekelet]

I realize this may not apply nearly as much to shammers and mentals (depending on whether mental is using wraithform or meaty pets) as is does to necro/lich. Could very well apply to trees.

What do you think of a 'Tog AI' option (ordered toggle, not PC toggle) which shuts off the pets AI entirely with the exception of follow and perhaps stand. For example: 'order treant tog ai'. Default upon raising/summoning is 'On' (current behavior.) When tog'd, all AI except the minimal required to function is killed. No assist,rescue,self-spellup,anything except follow.

Why? Because it is so annoying (and sometimes fatal) when 'o1 globe HankHitter' or 'oa rescue ClaireCleric' fails because they decided to globe themselves, or kick, or whatever.

Pro's? Well, they listen when you order something.
Downsides? Lose autoassist, lose *cough* autobash, lose autorescue, lose autoheal. It is a downside as these (warrior skills) CAN save yer butt. But I'll admit freely, most are not that much of a downside. That's a pretty iffy 'can.'

[Ambar]

why not make lich/necro even EASIER to play and level up?

a big no from me

i dont have a necro/lich thats big .. but I do have a lvl 50 elementalist ..

[Arilin Nydelahar]

Nah. No middle ground. Either they're totally devoid of AI except for stand on bashes, and following or they're the way they are now. I prefered Homelands necro/lich pets, they wouldn't do anything unless I told them to which is fine with me. They'd follow, and that was it.

I'd be ok with that, but no toggle. Either leave them as is, or change it to be no AI. They've worked this way for a good while, no real point to adding yet another toggle.

[Ragorn]

why not make lich/necro even EASIER to play and level up?

a big no from me

So some of the challege from leveling a necro should come from battling with unintuitive AI that prevents you from using your skills properly? If so, we can easily apply this challenge to other classes:

< 942h/961H Pos: Stand >
<> bash troll
You don't feel like bashing right now.

< 942h/961H Pos: Stand >
<>
You barely slash the troll.
You barely slash the troll.
You barely slash the troll.
The troll rends you very hard.
The troll rends you hard.
The troll rends you very hard.

< 798h/961H Pos: Stand >
<> bash troll
You are busy thinking about pretty flowers.

< 798h/961H Pos: Stand >
You barely slash the troll.
You barely slash the troll.
You barely slash the troll.
The troll rends you.
The troll barely rends you.
The troll rends you very hard.
The troll switches targets!

< 701h/961H Pos: Stand >
<> rescue ambar
Hmmm.... did you leave the oven on?

[Nekelet]

Nah. No middle ground. Either they're totally devoid of AI except for stand on bashes, and following or they're the way they are now. I prefered Homelands necro/lich pets, they wouldn't do anything unless I told them to which is fine with me. They'd follow, and that was it.

I'd be ok with that, but no toggle. Either leave them as is, or change it to be no AI. They've worked this way for a good while, no real point to adding yet another toggle.

Well if it turns out to be all or nothing (no toggle) then I vote leave it alone.


*chuckle Ragorn*

[Yayaril]

8)

Pets should have different behaviours that you can toggle. For instance, you can toggle on 'totally passive' where they do nothing unless you tell them to. Or you could toggle on 'aggressive' where they attack any aggressive mob that is in the room. Or you could order them into the 'guardian' behavior, where they automatically rescue you and whoever you tell them to protect. Certain behaviours would be available to certain undead, based on intellect. Skeletons and zombies would be limited to totally passive, whereas spectres and wraiths could be ordered into more complicated roles, etc.

[Thilindel]

When you create a pet, they're not supposed to think on their own, as I understood D&D rules. I find them auto-globing to be pretty damned annoying. It's clear that they should autorescue due to you being master, but random spelling themselves up just strikes me as out of line. There should be a default of melee only, or tog shieldpunch/kick/bash, so they don't do that then bog themselves down with lag and can't rescue on command when ordered. For caster pets, they should only cast when ordered or fighting. Even then, caster pets shouldn't cast protection spells unless ordered, save shield, cuz it's offensive.

[Nekelet]

So.. Thus far we're at:

1 Firm No.
1 'leave it the same, or change completely but no toggle'
1 sarcastic possible yes (*grin ragorn*)
2 Yes's (3 counting me)


Anyone else care to weigh in?

Nek

[Birile]

I gotta agree with Ambar, and only from a balance perspective, meaning necro/lich is already a friggin' awesome pet class as they are, even with casting pets casting self-globe, etc. (because we all know that's the only real thing at issue here, not really the warrior pets). Let's face it, they're undead, they don't quite have the faculties to decide to not self-globe or self-haste when they could be doing serious damage. I can see the logic behind the argument for pets having no AI whatsoever, but don't completely agree with that, as I've always seen elementals as being capable of thought, as well as spirit pets... trees, not so much :P

Of course, maybe I'm just jealous that I don't have casting pets. :)

[Yasden]

I agree with Yaya's idea. Seems more logical to give your "slave" a set of predetermined orders.

"Guard me." before a fight sounds more reasonable than...

"Shit! Rescue rescue rescue!" in the heat of battle. :P

[Llaaldara]

why not make lich/necro even EASIER to play and level up?

a big no from me

i dont have a necro/lich thats big .. but I do have a lvl 50 elementalist ..

Actually if pet AI was removed entirely...

It wouldn't be easier or harder as a necro/lich, it would just be more organized. Without pet AI you'd have to tell them to do EVERYTHING. Which means a lot more ordering. A lot more ordering means a lot more lag. A lot more lag means you get to use a lot LESS of YOUR abilities. Using less of your abilities leads to exp suffering. Exp suffering leads to hating to exp solo. Hating to exp solo leads to the DARKSIDE! *Den den den dent denna dent denna*

Basically, it doesn't make the class easier, just shifts a lot more focus on pet maintenance.

Ps. Would make zoning with pets a lot more desireable. As it is right now, once we get into a big brawl, you basically loose control of your pets. Which is about as annoying as rangers unable to use archery when they became engaged (which was changed recently if you remember).

In summary, if we can't have a toggle, I'd be for junking the pet AI entirely. It's annoying the way it is. Globing and coldshielding themselves on unshielded mobs they aren't tanking (for example), or shieldpunching (instead of bashing or rescuing) various mobs. I'd be all for something like Yaya suggested if it could be done, and in a timely manner.

[selerial]

why not make lich/necro even EASIER to play and level up?

a big no from me

i dont have a necro/lich thats big .. but I do have a lvl 50 elementalist ..

I have to admit that I'm both not swayed by the "logic" of this argument, and a little surprised at it too.

Of course, I personally feel as though PCs are horribly underpowered compared to mobs, and the only reason we can even beat them is because they're lacking any sort of intelligence. However, this is neither here nor there to the point, which is simply asking for an extra tool to use. I think it would be interesting if we could toggle the AI level of our pets.

And I have a low level necro and a 50 elementalist too, and I think Nekelet's request is almost strictly something that would affect necros with pretty much no bearing on elementals, since they're essentially just wraithform warriors (ie rescue spammers) outside of a few zones where an earth can bash things PCs can't, but that isn't reliable anyways.

[Nekelet]

...outside of a few zones where an earth can bash things PCs can't, but that isn't reliable anyways.

That's the point when applied to meaty warrior pets. Their skills aren't all that reliable, so it's doubly annoying when they decide to spunch or kick when they should be bashing or rescuing.

And yeah other than the occasional kick screwing up a rescue, it doesn't apply all that much to wraithform warriors, with the following exception:

Some big mob aggros.
o fire rescue @me
a fire elemental says 'I must assist my friend'
a fire elemental barely burns some big mob.
Some big mob sends you sprawling.
Ouch ouch crit crit.

Even worse when yer speaking of a necro/lich who isn't bodied/stoned. The auto-assist instead of ordered-rescue often proves fatal if you get surprise engaged + bashed. Heck, I've even had that happen in zones where some random mob aggros me and the leader merrily walks on.

I don't know about the rest of you, but for me: a tanking lich is a dead(er) lich. I seldom stand back up after getting bashed.