Small Changes

Submit and discuss your ideas for the MUD.
Asmaria
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Small Changes

Postby Asmaria » Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:20 am

Hi, I'm kinda new to this mud, but I have 3 years experience as a builder and minor coder. I played another MUD for about 7 years, and recently came over here after some problems with the immortal staff of my old MUD, and having heard that this one is well made and similar in playing style. There is however, quite a lot of difference between the two. I don't want to make anyone angry at me, cause Im not saying this place isnt well done, but I can offer fresh perspective. I'd appreciate only positive feedback on my idea's. If it wouldnt work in this enviroment or whatever, thats all that needs to be said. Im kinda sensitive if people bash me. :cry:

Ok, having said all that..

Suggestion #1

The first thing I noticed about this system is the way eq stacks.

< P: std > You are using:
<worn on head> a jeweled crown (magic)
<worn on eyes> a crescent shaped silken eyepatch
<worn in ear> an ornate golden earring
<worn in ear> an ornate golden earring
<worn on face> a delicate ivory mask (magic)
<worn around neck> a steel dog collar (magic)
<worn on body> a long burnished ringmail tunic (magic)
<worn about body> a grey and gold cloak (magic)
<worn about waist> a mithril clasped belt
<worn on arms> sleek silver armbands
<held as shield> a brass shield embedded with emeralds (magic)
<worn around wrist> a cracked mithril shackle
<worn around wrist> a silver bracer
<worn on hands> a pair of midnight black gloves
<worn on finger> a sparkling opal ring (magic)
<worn on finger> a sparkling opal ring (magic)
<primary weapon> a black devil's horn
<worn on legs> a pair of black skin leggings (magic)
<worn on feet> a pair of ice bear boots (magic)

I am used to eq stacking from head to toe so to speak. More like this.

Head
Neck
Body
Back
Arms
Wrists
Hands
Rings
Held in hand
Held in hand
waist
legs
feet

That would make more sense to me, rather then seeing things like

Body
Waist
Arms
Shield
Wrists

Its kinda all over the place. And then you have to deal with 22 eq slots. Omg, how do you keep track of everything you are wearing if its all over the place?

Suggestion #2

The next thing I noticed was that there are time lockouts for skills, but theres nothing to show if the time lockout is from a skill or lag or both.
If we were to add a small lockout timer to the skill in the combat bar, people could see it better. <Sneak> 5.0 You can modify that any way you like, so long as the seconds to go can be seen.

Suggestion #3

In combat skills. I admit my experience in this world is very limited, but so far I havnt seen much I can do besides sneak hide backstab. Extra skills that can be done in combat would be nice, starting at low level. Classes like Rogue/Warrior/Bard/Ranger or other fighting classes would all get the skill kick. At slightly higher levels they upgrade, like Rogues would get the Stab skill. Cudgel would be a cool skill to see at later levels as well. This can be used in conjunction with suggestion #2. You kick the mob in the side/groin/head/shin <2.0>

Suggestion #4

To add more personalized fighting style to the game, things can be added like attack modes. Defensive Mode would give the character additional armor points or something equal to the mobs getting a -3 hitroll. Additionally the player would get a -3 hitroll. Offensive Mode would give the opposite effect, making it easier for the player to hit and easier to be hit. Normal Mode would leave it as it would normally be. The player could choose this simply by typing attack offense, etc.

Suggestion #5

Sometimes I see things that don't make sense.

A beggar slumps to the ground.
You successfully pierce a beggar, his lifeless body falls to the ground.
a beggar is dead! R.I.P.
A beggar slumps to the ground.
You receive your share of experience.
Your blood freezes as you hear the rattling death cry of a beggar.

Why did he slump to the ground seemingly before I hit him?

I'm also not sure if I land my backstabs or not quite often. I pierce the mob but it doesnt give me that backstab message half the time. Does that mean I missed the backstab but I grazed them anyway or what? It would be nice to see a few different kinds of backstab messages, and if I miss the backstab to see a message like, you nearly cut yourself as you attempt to place a dagger in an old hag's back. I noticed we have that one already here, but what Im saying is that we should see a miss message or a backstab message. Not something cryptic. Also, here are a couple of backstab messages we could add.

In the case of an insta-death
<A mob> gets a blank look on its face, then collapses, as you place your <weapon> in its back.

(A mob) coughs up some blood, and then falls dead, as you place <weapon> in its back.

Your <weapon> sinks deep into (A mob's) lower back, killing them.

(A mob) enters into convulsions as you slip <weapon> into its spine, killing it.

Blood spurts from (a mob's) mouth as you plunge <weapon> in its back, killing it.

In the case of a miss

(A mob) notices you walking up behind him, apparently you were not sneaking and you're quite visible.

You nearly cut yourself as you try to backstab (A mob).

In the case of a backstab, but not insta-kill

(A mob) gets a blank look on its face, then dances around madly, as you place your <weapon> in its back.

(A mob) coughs up some blood as you place a <weapon> in its back.

(A mob) twitches wildly for a moment as you place your <weapon> in its back.

I got more if wanted.
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Postby ssar » Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:38 pm

Firstly, welcome!

Some good and interesting ideas, please dont take any of my reply as harsh-sounding, tho the way i type sometiems sounds it.

Re: eq slots - it has been this way forever, and to change it significantly without major general imbalance would take a lot of resources which would be better spent on other things by the staff, I think. The way it is is a core part of the game.
However, I have always thought wearing more rings cuz we have more fingers would be a good idea, or elves get to wear 2 earrings in each ear cuz they have long ears or something.
Having so many eq slots is a feature and makes it fun to mix/match improve with so many combos I think.

Re: time & lag - seeing the actual time left might detract from the game, lessen the "feel" of the realms. Also, as you progress in the game you get a good feel for how long you have until your next command/whatever can be effected anyways, and to a degree optimizing this is an art that is good to learn and use to be a better player.

Re: combat melee skills - there have been several threads and discussions about possible changes/additions to the melee system etc. - toss in ideas as you wish, and look for previous threads on them if you like too :)

Re: slump to the ground - he was on the verge of death and could not keep on his feet, clutching at his wound. Your final strike on him prone killed him - makes sense I think.

Keep ideas comin tho, and also be prepared to experience the mid-higher level game and capabilities of your char to further examine just how melee and the various skills/lags work etc.

On with the blood!
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Postby daggaz » Tue Feb 07, 2006 1:41 pm

Personally i agree with the way you mention eq being listed, even tho it has been this way for ages. It does make more sense and would be a tad easier in a fast hurry. Inbalancing?? Dude, ssar, what in the world does order of listing have to do with gamebalance? BOGGLE. Would only need to alter some of the base character code very slightly i believe. Unless order of listing has something to do with Poofing too.

As far as fighting skills, some cool ideas there (seen them on other muds too). I especially always liked the defense vs aggressive stances, which can be very useful for newbies.

As far as the skills we do have, try 'help skill_classtype' as in 'help skill_rogue' and you can see what you get. The help files here are generally pretty good.

Rogue backstabs land a full backstab when you see your dagger type named in the message. Its not cryptic at all. If you land a hit but you dont see the dagger's name, then you just landed a hit but failed the backstab. And a miss is a miss.

Btw theres a full thread posted by the gods (or there was) exactly for player input for fighting mechanics. They want to work in some big new stuff for us, i believe.

Hmm and last but not least, Ssar, have you ever read the DnD manual for multiple (more than two) ring use? Hehehe... yeah, we got ten fingers (most of us), but in DnD, if you wear more than two magic rings, they tend to interact in synergenic ways, usually bad but its possible good. Most characters dont wanna take the high risk tho of having both hands permanently blown off or being turned to stone.
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Postby Ashiwi » Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:50 pm

I think what Ssar was trying to say is that since it's not a majorly imbalancing aspect of the game, it's not really anything to worry about at the moment. I always agreed that they seem kind of out of place where they are, but I'm used to it, so no biggie to me.

Love to know which game you hail from. The last one I played that had a tick timer that counted down skill lag also included its own interface.
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Postby kiryan » Tue Feb 07, 2006 5:08 pm

How long would it take to rearrange the eq slots... 10 minutes?

Some of the death combat messages are backwards or redundant or happen out of order under specific circumstances... Why shouldn't they be tweaked... Technically speaking, the text scrolling by is all there is to this game; seems like it should be a priority.

Now moving on, when was the last time someone told you, but thats the way its always been and you actually accepted it as ok? You may have gone along with it, but you probably still don't think its right... Lets not crush this newbies spirit and discount his experience / perspective (yet).

We need to be evaluating ideas and changes based on their merit with some to little consideration to thats the way its always been. Thats the way its always been is one reason we aren't the industry leader we used to be, however, its probably part of the reason we have so many veterans who keep coming back every few years for another go around.

Last thing on this subject is to remember that we are struggling to make this game appealing to new players. A truly new player, not someone who played this game 10 years ago, can give us a perspective that we have been missing. Hell, if we ever find someone actually brand new to text games we should assign an imm to shadow them. In the mean time, we should do our best to listen and encourage asmaria even if his ideas are off the wall or go against the ingrained thought... the worst thing we could do is crush his creative spirit.

and yes, this is a hipocritical stance given past forum participation.
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Re: Small Changes

Postby Gurns » Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:10 pm

Asmaria wrote:The first thing I noticed about this system is the way eq stacks.

It's all in the posture. :)

If you are standing up, arms relaxed at your sides, where are your hands? Below your hips. Hands below them, fingers below them, held items dangling from your fingers.

Your arms? Well, they're partly above your waist and partly below. And remember that your waist is actually up near your elbows, not where folks wear their jeans. I always figured, in this list, they did "waist" where it was because once you were at "on body" you might as well finish up with what's on your body (your belt) before moving to the arms, especially since arms span some distance.

As to your shield, its location kinda depends on what kind of shield it is. But since most shields are going to be strapped to your arm, it naturally comes after "arm".

Evidently on your old mud, you were always in a fighting stance. Then, yes, your hands and what's in them would typically be above your waist.

So both equipment orders are essentially consistent with a head to toe scan, but they imply different postures.
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Postby Disoputlip » Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:33 pm

Yuan rogues can actually bite in combat from level 1, I always found that nice. Even though it doesn't give much damage.

On this mud multible backstabs are also possible, so even though you can't kick, then you can flee, and reenter and backstab. Mabye you couldn't do that on the other mud.
Asmaria
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Postby Asmaria » Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:41 pm

Mulitple backstabs were possible, but they become difficult after the first one or two, and when fighting higher level mobs, most thieves prefer to try a couple backstabs, and then use stab as a utility skill to do more effective damage.

As for the eq stacking thing, well, you can make up anything you want to justify a system. What if my character wants to walk around with her hands on her head all the time? In that case, my gloves should be first on the list, silly as that seems to me. In the end its all about the easiest, most organized system that is most effective and professional looking.
Last edited by Asmaria on Fri Feb 10, 2006 12:15 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Asmaria
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Postby Asmaria » Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:45 pm

Another example of the eq stack.

Elenla

<worn as a badge> a dark onyx stone enshrouded by a red aura
<worn on head> the iron crown of the frost giant warlords (magic)

I could be wrong, can someone explain why a badge lists higher then the headgear? *boggle*
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Pril
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Postby Pril » Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:04 pm

Asmaria wrote:Another example of the eq stack.

Elenla

<worn as a badge> a dark onyx stone enshrouded by a red aura
<worn on head> the iron crown of the frost giant warlords (magic)

I could be wrong, can someone explain why a badge lists higher then the headgear? *boggle*


She wears her badge on top of her helmet it's a new fad?
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Postby Vigis » Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:36 pm

Asmaria wrote:Another example of the eq stack.

Elenla

<worn as a badge> a dark onyx stone enshrouded by a red aura
<worn on head> the iron crown of the frost giant warlords (magic)

I could be wrong, can someone explain why a badge lists higher then the headgear? *boggle*


I think part of why badges may show as the first line is the prestige factor. A long time back, the only way to have a badge was to be in a guild or to do something kind of special, so if you had a badge, you wanted to show it off :) Also, the badges were transient and worked as keys to your guild hall.
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Postby Asmaria » Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:16 am

Oh I see. Well thats cool I guess.. I'd still rather see it adorning the helm or worn on the arm, or adorning bodyarmor. Oh well.

New idea - More complex information on players or mobs

Now assuming Elenla had something like, mighty str, heroic agi, and mighty cha, and is at full health.

Description
Spell Effects/Aura's

Elenla is of the human race.
Elenla looks healthy.
She is fairly muscular, graceful, and is comely.
She is about 5'5" tall and weighs around 140 pounds.

Elenla is wearing:
EQ

New Idea - Shop Manipulation

A command such as 'list fit' would cause only items available in the shops inventory that are allowable for my race/class to wear. Furthermore, a command such as 'list fit back' would list only items in the shop that fit my race/class and are worn on back. etc etc

New Idea - Scan

Being able to see is important. I like to look in a particular direction and see things. We should be able to type 'scan east' and see a few rooms in that direction. With any kind of magic type vision enhancing spells, further then that even. You can even set up a system so that you dont exactly see the room and exits next to you, you just see the mobs in that direction if its not too crowded.

You peer intently to the east, and see :
The clear skies enhance your view!
a teen aged boy : immediately to the east
a farmer : immediately to the east
a town guardsman : nearby to the east
The crowd hinders you from seeing any further to the east.
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Asmaria
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Potions/Scrolls

Postby Asmaria » Fri Feb 10, 2006 12:00 am

Potions/Scrolls

In many worlds, mages/shamans/enchanters and other such magic using classes have been able to create scrolls or potions, and can usually recharge most types of staves/wands etc. This has been done successfully without throwing the balance of the game.

Part of this is done by restricting which spells can be brewed or scrolled. Usually only the utility spells, such as haste, stone skin, or invisibility etc, can be created. Spells such as polymorph or plasma shield or other such powerful mage spells are self cast only, and cannot be scrolled or brewed. Potions of healing, refresh, and other such non-mage things can only be found in shops, treasures, or on mobs in the world.

Keeping an open mind to change is the key. Just about anything can be done to improve the world, without destroying balance, if it is implemented correctly and with the proper restrictions, keeping balance in mind.

PS - I'd really like to see some more graphic kills here. Insta-death hits are so much more fun if you see stuff like...

You thrust your dagger deep into a farmer's chest.
You can feel the rhythm of his heartbeat slow, then stop through your weapon.
A farmer's lifeless and blood splattered form falls to the ground as you remove your blade from his body.
A farmer is dead! R.I.P.

Rather then seeing...

The local idiot slumps to the ground.
You pierce the local idiot's heart, you heartbreaker you.
the local idiot is dead! R.I.P.
The local idiot is stunned!
The local idiot slumps to the ground.
You receive your share of experience.
Your blood freezes as you hear the rattling death cry of the local idiot.

Every kill I get that same message. Cool as it is, it gets kinda lame after the first 20 times in a row I see it.

PS - I still dont understand why he slumped to the ground, then I pierced his heart with my backstab apparently, so he DIES, then he's stunned, then he slumps even more into the ground I guess, and then I hear his deathcry...

Another example of wierdness;

The local idiot is nearly slain by the force of your pierce!
The local idiot is incapacitated and will slowly die, if not aided.
The local idiot slumps to the ground.
The local idiot slumps to the ground.
You successfully pierce the local idiot, his lifeless body falls to the ground.
the local idiot is dead! R.I.P.
The local idiot is stunned!
The local idiot slumps to the ground.
You receive your share of experience.
Your blood freezes as you hear the rattling death cry of the local idiot.

Does that look funny to anyone else?

Also, I really don't need to see the message 'You recieve your share of experience' unless someone else in my group got the kill, and I got some partial experinece for it. If I killed that rat bastich, Im fair sure I got the xp. *Shrug*

I know with all these posts and all my criticising I've probably pissed off every Admin and Immortal in the game, but I honestly just want to help. A few minor touch ups could vastly improve the quality of the entire game. Other idea's are for fun and to inspire more complex gameplay.

I hope they are at least looked at and considered seriously. My very small and brief contact with the immortal side of things on my idea's hasnt been promising. It's been very dismissive with the attitude of, your idea's will imbalance the game, or they are not worth looking at, or this game is perfect the way it is cause its been that way for a long time and people like it. *sigh* If I'm wasting my breath here, let me know. I'll stop posting.
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Postby Gormal » Fri Feb 10, 2006 12:37 am

I fail to see how a characters posture or the orientation of his limbs should dictate how equipment is display when i am looked at. Shouldn't the first piece of gear noticed by someone be what their eyes are drawn to, or maybe even the flashiest piece of gear they are wearing? Its all about perspetive. I've seen it done a lot of different ways on various muds and now I'm used to this, I can scan it quickly and effienciently to see what I'm wearing/not wearing.

I just don't see how the orientation can EVER "make sense".
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Postby zusuk » Fri Feb 10, 2006 12:53 am

Asmaria, don't stop posting... fresh ideas are lacking!

I know what you mean about the gods, maybe they are just really busy real life or something... it could be lack of motivation... who knows, since it's a free MUD we definitely can't pressure them too much :p But I don't think we'd be doing our part by pretending to be satisfied if we're not.

It would be completely cake to add more damage/death messages to the MUD... and that would be more attractive to newer players and low level older players... but when you get high level, you have all your damage messages condensed/gagged because you have very large groups of people all fighting so it just creates massive spam.. The entertainment at that part of the game becomes teamwork, leadership, skill and friendship.

I think you're missing out on a large aspect of the game just because you don't have enough people to group with and I feel getting a larger player base should be everybody's focus... All we can do is try! :)

Take care Asmaria!
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Postby Asmaria » Fri Feb 10, 2006 12:56 am

Well.. cause.. its organized. *pout* Grr, ya gotta make this difficult for me to explain. Hehe. ;) Well, I'd argue back that people usually look at another person eyes first. Then you check them out, looking them up and down so to speak. How do you guys check out girls when you're at the mall? Head to toe, and then back to the top, right?

Well, I guess on the way back up your eyes get stuck on the upper-middle section cause boys are pigs, but hey. *shrug*
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malakwee
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Postby malakwee » Fri Feb 10, 2006 2:20 am

Well i wish there is a 'but' slot... cos most times whenever i check a girl out, that is where i look first...

<But slot> a mystical thong of intangability
<Boob slot> a mystical nipple ring of seduction

jk :P

Appreciate your idea a lot asmaria... I certainly love the different damage messages you are suggesting... Will help especially for those solo or smaller group setup to know if you are indeed doing damage at all to the mob u are engaging.

Keep it up mang :P
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Postby Asmaria » Fri Feb 10, 2006 2:43 am

*giggle* Rofl Malakwee. ;)
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order of equipment slots

Postby Abbayarra » Mon Feb 13, 2006 5:20 am

Hello,
How difficult would it be to allow each person to chose the order in which they see their equipment slots? :P
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Postby Corth » Mon Feb 13, 2006 2:28 pm

Well, I guess its nice that there is a new player...

Some of his ideas make sense, but I don't see anything very earth shattering here. Its mostly aesthetics and semantics. Whether or not you implement these ideas are going to have very little bearing on how the game works.

There was some substance with respect to the melee system. Generally speaking, it would be great if the melee system allowed people to use some sort of strategy rather than just sit around waiting for the mob to die. Adding more melee attack skills similar to 'kick' or giving them out earlier is not going to impact the game very much. These skills are stupid imho. Used to bore me to hell when I played a melee class, mindlessly typing 'kick' every few rounds. Instead of constantly typing them in, it would make more sense to me if you could only do it once in a while under very specific circumstances, and if succesful, it would have an effect different than just doing a few hps of damage.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth

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Postby Glorishan » Mon Feb 13, 2006 6:29 pm

And while we're at it, pshifting prime from prime should be a global teleport spell!
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Re: Potions/Scrolls

Postby Eshacin » Tue Feb 14, 2006 2:54 am

Asmaria wrote:You pierce the local idiot's heart, you heartbreaker you.

I believe that bit of code is original from the unmodified diku mud. There are other messages (and emotes) that haven't been changed.

I guess there's always been something more pressing to do...
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Postby Sarell » Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:58 am

Hrmmmm, are you saying when we look at a female character we should only be able to see what is worn on body and nothing else? :| Now that's realism!

Just because something is old or classic doesn't make it bad Eschanin, look at Corth! :)

The multiple slumps to the ground are kind of wierd, I could imagine it if you were a dragon or fire giant mauling it, but for everyone else, it seems wierd to me still :) I think a larger assortment of death messages could be good, it's always classic and inspiring when you get a bashdeath to change things around however...and what's with critical kick!

I think a bit more encompassing solutions can be good, I'm on my let's imp DG scripts push atm, then you can make your death message fit your room or mob description or any other neat things zone writers want to come up with!
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Postby Marthammor » Tue Feb 14, 2006 2:08 pm

I'm pushing DG Scripts, but I don't see it happening any time soon.
Part of the reason may be that falls under CircleMud code license. Another part is that the difference between CircleMud and the current code base is huge, even though they are both based on Diku.

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