suprised this hasnt been asked...

[amolol]

1 word .......

guildhalls

[Ragorn]

no

[amolol]

didnt think so but i thought idd point it out

[Ambar]

On BasternaeII guildhalls were fun :) Dunno how many times we killed evils when they popped in their guildhall after we busted in and killed their guards :)

They'd die and pop, we'd kill em :) whee

Got old after a while tho!

The the mud suddenly lost the ability to raid guilhalls .. wonder why :)

[Ragorn]

How much fun would guildhalls be on Toril, two months after they're implemented? You'd have a new place to sit /afk, maybe a new place to sell junk drops, and a message board. Guildhalls were useful on Duris and Bast because they were (relatively) safe places to go afk. Don't really need that here.

[daggaz]

whatever..

I can think of at least ten reasons guild halls would be cool, even without Pkill.

I wont bother mentioning them tho, you can just read thru the relevant threads instead, as it seems you never have or you wouldn't have such a limited explanation against them.

[Ragorn]

Sorry, I've read the threads, my last post was a polite way of saying "guildhalls are a stupid idea." Since you don't respond to tact, I'll just come out and say it. Twice. Guildhalls are a stupid idea. Still.

[Gormal]

I'm going to have to completely disagree with you on this one, Joe. Implemented correctly, guildhalls have the potential to add quite a lot to the high end game on Toril. Players don't really need new shiny equipment, or another million plat. Guildhalls are a way for people to work towards something that won't affect gameplay at all, and therefore requires no real balancing.

Lets say, that to get certain guildhall items you have to gather zone points (not at all like prestige currently works). Killing Imix nets you a token that you can turn into a mob that every guild has who adds it to your total points. You can buy them, quest (god and hardcoded), etc. The possibilities are endless, and properly implemented you could allow non-members to see certain visitor areas of the halls, show some kind of scoreboard, or lots of other nifty ideas.

I'm just throwing out random ideas, but I see guildhalls as the way to expand the game and rejuvenate some of the enthusiasm that has been dwindling of late.

[amolol]

with a guildhall you could change your word of recall point/hometown ect ect ect thats cool in its self second like gormal said you could set up scoreboards for tournaments in the arena or fastest zone/quest times ect ect the point system would be nifty too. i know that alot of people would just use it as a safe afk point. but thats their problem no more afk people than we have now. besides how would you like to go no further than your own guild hall to prac your skills woohoo squids can practice somewhere other than IX! if i haad a guild hall idd put automatons in it. like the ones in scarsdale that heal themselves but dont hit you. make skill practice alot esier and less time consuming.

[Cirath]

whatever..

I can think of at least ten reasons guild halls would be cool, even without Pkill.

I wont bother mentioning them tho, you can just read thru the relevant threads instead, as it seems you never have or you wouldn't have such a limited explanation against them.

For those of us that haven't seen the relevant threads, how about some links? I honestly don't see much point to guildhalls either, but then I haven't given it much thought.

[Tasan]

and properly implemented

:lol:

too funny

[Tasan]

with a guildhall you could change your word of recall point/hometown ect ect ect

Why not just let everyone have a recall command to recall them to safety. I fail to see why you should have to be in a guild to have a special feature like this.

make skill practice alot esier and less time consuming.

You mean "make skill practice even more easy to bot".

I don't get the push for guildhalls myself. I don't really see what they add in a non-pvp environment at all, except another place to rare-camp if they aren't regulated to nearby cities. Having something to do with your own personal supply of cash is reasonable, but why tie in special abilities like recall to being in a guild?

[Cirath]

make skill practice alot esier and less time consuming.

You mean "make skill practice even more easy to bot".

Not to mention that skill practice will be a thing of the past, with skills being done on a point buy system.

[Ifin]

There's only one path of progression in this game - eq. Eq is just a string of ansi, what's the point of playing and zoning and just replacing it with a new string?

Guildhalls offer a new line of progression and a central goal for a group of people to progress towards. As it should be rewarding to win a shiny new piece of eq, so is building up a big great guildhall.

Right now guilds are basically glorified chat channels.

Guild halls might have spurred competition too, when there were 4-5 active guilds. Competition is good, right? All the politics stuff that's been oh so talked about. Hopefully then there'd be competitive guilds who'd want to be more active so they can claim the "best" guildhall, inspiring a group of people to play instead of individuals. And then there's those guilds, like people who play to explore and discover, who would just have fun describing and building their guildhall for their own enjoyment.

I always imagined guild additions could be on the form of an epic quest. Where so many items from so many zones and plats would help build an eq and plat sink. And perhaps factor in RP points, so guilds who have great writers could get additions in that way as well.

It's not just a place where you can AFK, but something else you can progress with, just like you do with your character. That's the basic concept of a game.

[moritheil]

In the past guildhall additions were pretty much entirely a question of having the plats to throw down (hundreds of thousands per feature.) I can't remember what would be useful in a non-PVP environment besides the aforementioned recall to a healing room, though.

[Ragorn]

In the past guildhall additions were pretty much entirely a question of having the plats to throw down (hundreds of thousands per feature.) I can't remember what would be useful in a non-PVP environment besides the aforementioned recall to a healing room, though.

Yes, this is my point. In a non-PvP game, guildhalls serve little purpose other than a way to convert your platinum coins into customized rooms. Maybe for some, there's an appeal to that in and of itself. However, considering the size of the Toril 2.0 project and how much actual game content it will bring to Toril, I would much rather see coder hours go toward prestige classes, feats, skills, and spells than implementing a way for the top two guilds in the game to further flex their epeens.

[Mirlantharn]

No offense to anyone involved, but....
Guildhalls only benefit higher level players, and right now you might be noticing that we only have higher level players, but only a handful of them really (in relation to the numbers of years past).

I'd much rather see the effort of coding/creating go towards something for _everyone_ and actually for lower to mid-level areas, so as to regain a larger player base.

When we have 300 people on at the same time again, _then_ I'll argue for guildhalls, but not before then.

Mirlantharn
the hopefully wise-seeming mage

[Sarell]

I don't see why guildhalls only benefit high levels. Low levels can be in a guild and no one said guild halls were for the guild members only to visit. Even something as simple as guildhalls you can make if you have a guild at a cost of 10K a room, or you get 1 room per member would be fun. Another room per month your guild is around. Anything. I think they would be cool even if they are just a nice room you can meet up in before smiting to call your own.

[amolol]

what about a guild storage cashe in the guild hall? why not have something like that in there sothat if someone rolls a new char they can have some gear to use. cause you know guildies are supposed to be supportave friends who do things like that. just one suggestion. or put an auctioneer in your guild hall and have it near WD see if the guild hall doesnt get some traffic. somany things could be done with guild halls. why could guilds write quests for items and then give rewards. ex say i want the rattle from MS and im willing to give a 500P reward for anyone who brings it to me. why cant i have a mob do that for me?

btw quest point system would be awesome. each quest being worth a number of point you build your points and be able to purchase something (feat skill fre practices ect ect ect)

[daggaz]

I ran a guild that started out specifically for the purpose of helping low level/mid level new players learn the game. It was quite successful as well, at least until the dark days of pbase wipeout. We would have been VERY happy to have a guildhall. In fact, we went out of our way to claim part of DK as just that (rollplay wise) and even went out and collected signet rings which matched both our guilds name and ansi by coincidence.

As to building the guildhall, I was perfectly capabable of writing the zone files myself, just need a god to imp them. As far as waste of coder time, well yeah, I prioritize 2.0 as well, but I really dont think we are talking about a vast amount of coding here. Really its just extensions of existing coding, you arent talking about a new spell or feat or race whathaveyou.. And as people say, it adds a whole new dimension to the game, which puts it well past cost vs reward imho.

For links to related threads, just search the archives for anything titled 'guildhalls' or 'kingdom code.' But this thread is already starting to hit on some of the most solid arguments for guildhalls as is...

[Guardias]

I believe that guildhalls would be a good things especially if guild storage likened to that of character storage at inns or guild storage chests were put in. It was of great help on Homeland where people put extra eq they did'nt need, quest items, and such in the guild chest for peoples use. This system also creates a large pool of equipment that can be easily seen and sorted and very likely given to newbies. In fact back on Homeland that was one of the first things we'd do for new characters, take them to the guildhall drag out the chests and outfit them with some midlevel equipment.

Guildhalls allow for a very efficient plat sink, especially for story oriented people, and overall allow for a more interesting playing environment.

[Ifin]

I keep saying people say they'd rather want time focused on 2.0 instead so it's better for "everyone."

1) I've always wondered why guild halls can't be implemented with a policy decision instead of massive coding - still wondering. I mean, people build areas, have access to area files etc, so why can't guild members do this grunt work once policy is laid out?

2) As "fixing" xp/mid-lvl exploration/zoning is a suggestion for newbie/mid-lvl'ers, guildhalls is a suggestion for expanding the high lvl game. High level people do get bored and leave as well. I'd say 70%+ of the current active players are in guilds anyways, and even if they weren't, at least it's something that is able to strive for or make your own if you want guildhalls.

3) Move beyond plat sinks - can't we see that this could possibly be an eq sink as well along the lines of super-epic questage? Which would spur activity, ie some current zones are only done b/c people need "worthless-wearing" eq from there only for personal epic quests.

4) Not just a place to idle - but msg board in game, internal or even extrernal auctions, caches, trivial shops, etc. would add to the atmosphere of guilds. Perhaps even w/super costs for the mobs and convenience/upkeep fees, could have personal mobs to cast spells such as mage flame/di/fly/etc in guild, or expanding to better spells like stone skin etc (debatable) (but could also do restrict like 1x/day).

All this would provide another avenue of expansion besides your own character.

[Mirlantharn]

Sarell: Guildhalls only benefit high level players because only high level players typically have the funds to pay the dues. _Typically_. Only example of a non-high level player guild would be the one that Daggaz just mentioned, and I would have applied for it had I known about it. Think about it a moment, and then give us an indication of how many lvl 30 or less players _without alts_ have that cash flow. Perhaps if there were carts in the game that could transport a _ton_ of small items for sale back at some shops, then you might see this change, but unlikely still.

Amolol, Guardias: Guildhalls for equipment sharing are partially a bad idea. You still are assuming that the guildhall is accessible to lower level players, or that non-guild members could enter a guildhall (remember, not everyone from a guild is on the mud 24/7). What I've been advocating is changes that affect _everyone_, both uniformly and fairly.

Ifin: 1) Guildhalls still are room building efforts, and should still be overseen by staff member. The computer won't be able to pick out every idea/concept and check it against being in-theme or correct, when considered how much scrutiny goes into the normal rooms in this mud (Let's hear it to the area creators! Thanks to you creators for our zones!).
2) You are right, we do have a lot of bored high levelers, which is why the _content_ of the mud needs to continuously expand. Content, being both code, zones, and quests, must expand to keep people interested. Maybe Toril2.0 will bring those people back. However, let's hope they're not just bored of the hack'n'slash style which is only what they want.
3) All successful muds have required coin sinks, without exception, and it's not a coincidence.
4) What we need is a way to get more quests or "invasions" happening, while hanging out in some areas, not totally in spliting up bored people. One reason that 3W was 3W, the Fountain the Fountain and now 1d from the Dead Orc Inn, was because of the need for everyone to be together to form a group. LFG helps slightly, but it wasn't the panacea that everyone had hoped for, sadly.


I personally have been coming up with ideas for years, most having a very demanding situation with coding, and am still waiting for most of those ideas to be implemented. The encompassing feature that all of my ideas have in common is that I hope to enrich and spark the interest and reinterest of new and old players alike. Some of those ideas were even at the detriment of my personal character's interest, but needed to be such as to keep things in balance.

The very first mud I started upon was NuclearWar Mud, and they had guilds which you could join if you were very small lvl, but you had to be sponsored by a guild member, and couldn't enter any other guild halls. The guild had a storage chest for equipment, but was the old style mud with only money being passed between reboots. The problem with that method was: People weren't always on 24/7 to get you the equipment, and they didn't want you in the guild until they knew you and your abilities better. Hence, it wasn't friendly to _everyone_ equally nor always available.


Now, here's an idea I've had and was saving, but now is as good a time as any:

1) Start a secondary character _without_ any help at _all_ from your primary or friends of your primary. Not even to CR it nor retrieve it's equipment. Just how many of you players can do that, or have? (hrmmm poll question, anyone?)

2) Within different and separate places, _possibly_ just taverns for starters, have an "instance" quest be generated via code. The intention is that the "instance" would be generated for a selected group of people (possibly requiring them to be already grouped, perhaps not!), and would be _reasonably_ possible for the group to accomplish. It shouldn't even have to be initiated by any actions of players, and not "played out" the same way either. Notice: it's actually not _too_ terribly difficult to implement this in code, could be done with the current code base and easily ported to the yet unfinished Toril2.0, and respark some interest within the mud.

Always spontaneously thinking,
Mirlantharn

PS. Ok, so I'm trying my hand at colors with the BBS. Kick me for it on the mud later. -Mirl