VP picks

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avak
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VP picks

Postby avak » Sat Aug 30, 2008 5:39 pm

Now that we have the presidential tickets finalized, I am very curious as to what people here think about the VP choices.

Biden seems like an obvious and very strategic choice on Obama's part. The guy is very experienced, especially in foreign policy; he's one of the poorest sitting Senators and rides the Amtrak to work still; he'll debate circles around both Palin and McCain, and he really doesn't steal the spotlight from Obama. Overall I was initially surprised by the choice, but it seems pretty close to brilliant in retrospect.

As for Palin. Can I get a round of WTF's? Someone please shed some light on this. Is McCain really this dumb? Somewhere I read something like, "picking Palin for VP is one small step above winning the spot through a game show." You can critique Obama's 'experience" all you want, but her credentials are downright insulting. This has to be historic in terms of a major party candidate's lack of experience. The best explanations I have heard is that she might snag some women voters and that she pleases the evangelicals. What was wrong with Pawlenty?? Man, McCain is such a trainwreck. Is it too early to be betting 58/42?
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Re: VP picks

Postby Sarvis » Sat Aug 30, 2008 5:45 pm

The cynic in me thinks McCain chose a women so that Republicans can appear progressive and counter the First Black President(tm) with the First Femail VP(tm)
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Re: VP picks

Postby Vaprak » Sat Aug 30, 2008 6:15 pm

I was totally onboard with Palin until I found out that she supported teaching creationism alongside evolution in schools. ANYONE that thinks creationism is a even a remotely miniscule chance of a valid idealogy is a complete WHACKJOB in my mind. I'm not a big fan of pro-life people either, but I can deal with that I guess as it's not a major issue for me. However, there are some things that I do like about Palin:

- She's not a good-ol-boy.
- She's not afraid to shake things up
- She's has a middle-class family with a husband that actually WORKs for a living.
- She's pushed a reform agenda through Alaska since day one.
- She's a lifelong NRA member.
- She's worked very hard and accomplished more things in the short time she's been in office than any governer I can think of. Obama has been campaigning nearly the entire time he's been in national office.
- Best of all she knows how to sharpen a pencil, balance budgets, curb costs, get rid of pork, etc. She's an actual fiscal conservative.

Pawlenty is governor of the state I live in and I really can't stand the guy. At all. Pawlenty is a fiscal conservative, but to a fault. His whole concept of "no new taxes" and then raising every single fee in the state doesn't sit well with me.


As for Obama-Biden ticket I could really care less as I'd never vote for someone as liberal/socialist as Obama. Ever. I don't like the idea of voting for a republican either, but I'll take a moderate conservative over any form of liberal any day.

If only the Libratarians hadn't nominated a complete NON-libratarian I'd probably vote libratarian again this year, but the guy that's on the ticket this year is about as libratarian as W or hilary is.
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Re: VP picks

Postby Ragorn » Sat Aug 30, 2008 7:48 pm

Nail in the coffin, thanks for trying McSame.
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Re: VP picks

Postby Corth » Sat Aug 30, 2008 8:19 pm

Palin was an example of political mastery. I'm not a huge McCain fan but it was a SMART move. Blue collar attractive FEMALE (half the country). Son going to Iraq. Chose not to abort her baby she knew would be born with Down Syndrome. By all accounts a genuinely nice person. She appeals to so many groups its not funny. And from McCain's perspective, the more the word 'inexperienced' is tossed around, the better off he is. Yeah, she's inexperienced. As is Obama. The guy has never held a single job for more than 3 years in his adult life. First term Senator. McCain would love to have the experience issue be the crux of this election.

Moreover, the timing of the announcement was perfect. Nobody was talking about Obama's big speech the next day. It was all about Palin.
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Re: VP picks

Postby Vaprak » Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:40 pm

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Re: VP picks

Postby Kifle » Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:08 pm

At least she lives close to Russia so she's very experienced in foriegn relations...
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Re: VP picks

Postby shalath » Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:14 pm

Corth wrote:Palin was an example of political mastery. I'm not a huge McCain fan but it was a SMART move. Blue collar attractive FEMALE (half the country). Son going to Iraq. Chose not to abort her baby she knew would be born with Down Syndrome. By all accounts a genuinely nice person. She appeals to so many groups its not funny. And from McCain's perspective, the more the word 'inexperienced' is tossed around, the better off he is. Yeah, she's inexperienced. As is Obama. The guy has never held a single job for more than 3 years in his adult life. First term Senator. McCain would love to have the experience issue be the crux of this election.

Moreover, the timing of the announcement was perfect. Nobody was talking about Obama's big speech the next day. It was all about Palin.

As an outsider, I have to say I completely agree. It seemed from over here that McCain had no chance...but now I'm not so sure. This is a moment of genius on the part of the McCain campaign.
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Re: VP picks

Postby Lathander » Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:21 pm

Palin has more executive experience than Obama. I think this puts the nail in the coffin of Obama because this should deliver OH, PA and MI to McCain. Without those, Obama doesn't have a chance.
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Re: VP picks

Postby Lathander » Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:26 pm

Here's a link to an electoral map. See what numbers you get.

My prediction is 311 to 223 with the percentage being 48 (Obama) to 47 (McCain) in favor of McCain over Obama.
Last edited by Lathander on Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: VP picks

Postby avak » Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:28 pm

Political mastery?! By all accounts McCain was still going to go with Lieberman only days before contacting Palin just this week. It marked the second time McCain had even spoken to the woman. The second time he met her was in Dayton. All reputable analysts and wonks dismissed her early on for an entire litany of reasons. Apparently they just didn't see how she 'appeals to so many groups its not funny.' Even party stalwarts are scratching their heads trying to figure it out.

I think all the sports analogies being thrown about are pretty accurate. This choice comes off as desperate and panicky.
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Re: VP picks

Postby Lathander » Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:34 pm

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Re: VP picks

Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Sun Aug 31, 2008 5:20 am

I don't care what political "pundits" have to say, I care what people have to say. All I've been hearing on the radio, at work, at the gas station talking to Manny and Co., is that they all like her. People who weren't motivated to vote for McCain now feel more motivated because of his having chosen Palin, mostly for the reasons Vaprak listed. She appears to be a normal (not Washington) person who wants to really fix things and eliminate old guard corruption, as she did in Alaska. The only people who seem to not like her, or see her choice as insane, are those planning to vote for Obama.

Many have brought up her lack of experience, and how McCain can't use that any more to attack Obama. The main difference, obviously, is that Palin isn't running for President, Obama is. The "possibility" of her being President if McCain dies is a nice fantasy scenario to use to try to defend Obama's inexperience, but in reality, he's the one running for President, not her.

If you want to talk about bad VP picks, how about picking someone who's been involved with Washington politics for over 30 years when your main campaign slogan is "Change".
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Re: VP picks

Postby avak » Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:29 pm

The Biden point is a good one, but I'd use the same counter argument you did...Obama is running for President, not Biden. I'd use the Ventura example again...the reality is that even with a platform of 'change' you can't just go in and do whatever you want. There is a system of checks and balances...you know, equal powers, etc etc. In order to enact -any- change Obama has to get elected first. Then he has to work within a broken system.

And as for the relevancy of Palin being suited to be President...here is actuary data:

Social Security Administration maintains statistics on life expectancy and death probabilities. John McCain, who turned 72 today, has a 3.3% chance of dying before his 73rd birthday, 0.6% chance of dying before the elections and a 1.3% chance of dying before the inauguration.

McCain will be just over 76 on Election Day, 2012. He has a 15% chance of dying before then. He will be 80 for the 2016 elections – and a 32% chance of not making it.


And that is for a person of average health...which McCain is not.

The idea of Sarah Palin running this country and our military makes me physically uncomfortable.
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Re: VP picks

Postby Lathander » Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:20 pm

She has more military experience than Obama as the Commander in Chief of the Alaska National Guard.
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Re: VP picks

Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Sun Aug 31, 2008 6:31 pm

avak wrote:The idea of Sarah Palin running this country and our military makes me physically uncomfortable.


If you meant that truthfully, without exaggeration, now you know how we feel about Obama, Avak; except he's the one running for President. This isn't about Republican vs. Democrat. I didn't care too much when Clinton got elected, nor with the idea of Kerry winning. I am scared about Obama winning.
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Re: VP picks

Postby Kifle » Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:01 pm

Obama to me seems a wildcard for the presidency; however, McCain is a party dog that will bend accordingly once he is in the greatest spotlight -- like he always does. The fact that he picked a VP candidate as unaccomplished as Palin only indicates fear. For anyone to believe she is nothing more than a bikini model in a beer commercial would fall between stupid and retarded. I swear, if this country actually falls for that overt of a political move, I will sodomize myself with my own freshly severed schlong. The only thing I can cling to at this point is that she will do Poorly in the VP debates against virtually anyone with half a brain; however, Bush couldn't have done worse against Gore and he still won, so who knows anymore. This country has a lot of morons infesting it.
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Re: VP picks

Postby Lathander » Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:31 pm

Wow Kifle, I never expected to hear such sexist and misogynistic attack on a strong woman who is governor of Alaska. She has been a small business owner and raised a family of children while her husband works. She decided to try to fix things and joined politics to have an impact. That is exactly the kind of person we need! Whether she is a woman or "bikini model" as you say should not be used to attack her.

This is why there is a ground swell of women that are tired of empty line from the democrats on how important women are. Hillary got 18 million votes, far more than Biden, yet she was denied the VP spot? I have a two year old daughter and I think it is great that a woman is up for the VP post this election.
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Re: VP picks

Postby Ragorn » Sun Aug 31, 2008 8:50 pm

Lathander wrote:Wow Kifle, I never expected to hear such sexist and misogynistic attack on a strong woman who is governor of Alaska.

Oh yes, I assure you that the American Republican is the picture of superlative grace and dignity when addressing the topic of Nancy Pelosi's political career.

You're so cute when it's your guy on the block :)
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Re: VP picks

Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Sun Aug 31, 2008 11:21 pm

Ragorn, Kifle attacked Palin because of how she looks. We attack Pelosi because of what she does, or oftentimes, doesn't do. If you wanna attack Palin's career, go ahead, but Kifle went after her looks.
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Re: VP picks

Postby Ragorn » Sun Aug 31, 2008 11:30 pm

Adriorn Darkcloak wrote:Ragorn, Kifle attacked Palin because of how she looks. We attack Pelosi because of what she does, or oftentimes, doesn't do. If you wanna attack Palin's career, go ahead, but Kifle went after her looks.

Image
Yeah, I guess you're totally right. Republicans would never attack a female politician's looks.
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Re: VP picks

Postby Lathander » Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:08 am

Rags,

Kifle was trying to put Palin down based on her looks basically objectifying as only useful in a sexy way. That's what he did when he said "bikini model". I think it is wrong to do that. One can argue the views that Palin holds but it is really base and vile to simply put a woman down as only useful to model a bikini. Would you disagree?
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Re: VP picks

Postby Corth » Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:56 am

Yeah, there are assholes on both sides of the political spectrum. In this thread, however...
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



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Re: VP picks

Postby teflor the ranger » Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:13 am

Palin's husband is a member of the steelworker's union.

The choice of Palin was a choice of a message: We're Republican. We respect the strength of our women. We believe in the true middle class story; the ones of the reformers, the true opposition of the elitists and corrupt; that regular people that come from a home where people have beliefs, moral values, and the willingness to fight for them even when we feel outclassed.

Finally, it's also a message that those of strong religious faith can seperate church and state. That someone who believes in creationism can still administer sound justice and reason. A reminder that many of the founding fathers were devout believers themselves.

We're Republican. We're voting for a veteran that was once hated by much of his country for the war he did not start, that some have said his five and a half years of suffering for us was something he brought upon himself. We're voting for the wife of a steel worker that believed that her state could do better and beat back corruption.

America is about freedom. Some among the Democrats can talk until they're blue in the face about how they're going to beat John McCain, and how Bush is a failure.

I mean, that kind of talk isn't divisive at all...

The way I see it, you all beat Clinton back into the kitchen, and saddled her with all the debt. I thought the Dems were supposed to represent the more progressive. On our side, women seem to be elevated, instead of discouraged.
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Re: VP picks

Postby Kifle » Mon Sep 01, 2008 3:08 am

Lathander wrote:Rags,

Kifle was trying to put Palin down based on her looks basically objectifying as only useful in a sexy way. That's what he did when he said "bikini model". I think it is wrong to do that. One can argue the views that Palin holds but it is really base and vile to simply put a woman down as only useful to model a bikini. Would you disagree?


I was actually saying the party is only using her for her looks -- not that she is only useful for her looks. She's also useful because she's a woman -- which is another tool the republicans are using to try and catch the Obama change train. You would be a fool to believe that they would pick her over the other potential candidates for any other reason. It's not like the conservative party has a great track record of placing women on the same platform as men -- except when it helps them get where they want to go.

As far as the job goes, there were more experienced, "yes men," that would be typical conservative candidates for VP; politically, however, their best ammo was Palin. Sorry if you think I'm sexist or "objectifying" her in some way, but I'm just stating the obvious. McCain is a senile party puppet, and Palin is a woman with some mutation of blue-collar street-cred; beyond that, the GOP is without substance in this race.

If it makes you feel any better, if Palin was packin' sausage instead of rockin' the clam-cave, my opinions would be the same -- all package, no filling (no pun intended).

Look at it this way, what I'm saying, in a nutshell, is that Palin is nothing more than the Wal-mart brand of anything: Someone has a good idea, then they come out with an imitation that seems just like the original -- except it usually doesn't work as well and breaks quickly.
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Re: VP picks

Postby Sarvis » Mon Sep 01, 2008 3:16 am

Sarvis wrote:The cynic in me thinks McCain chose a women so that Republicans can appear progressive and counter the First Black President(tm) with the First Femail VP(tm)



teflor the ranger wrote:The way I see it, you all beat Clinton back into the kitchen, and saddled her with all the debt. I thought the Dems were supposed to represent the more progressive. On our side, women seem to be elevated, instead of discouraged.



Heh... guess I called it, then.


*grabs some popcorn and a comfy seat*
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Re: VP picks

Postby Ragorn » Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:12 am

Sarvis wrote:
teflor the ranger wrote:The way I see it, you all beat Clinton back into the kitchen, and saddled her with all the debt. I thought the Dems were supposed to represent the more progressive. On our side, women seem to be elevated, instead of discouraged.

Number of women in Congress:

House of Representatives:
Democrat: 43
Republican: 18

Senate:
Democrat: 11
Republican: 3

lol
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Re: VP picks

Postby Botef » Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:47 am

John McCain's mastery of the Kama Sutra will ensure our country always comes first...
but John McCain claims he can see the sailboat in those 3D pictures but he never describes it correctly.
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Re: VP picks

Postby teflor the ranger » Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:52 pm

Ragorn wrote:House of Representatives:
Democrat: 43
Republican: 18

Senate:
Democrat: 11
Republican: 3

lol


And Clinton IS one of those in the Senate!

Sure, the Democrats think they're good enough for the kitchen, just not for leadership.
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Re: VP picks

Postby avak » Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:07 pm

Cons criticizing Dems for the role of women in government is pretty much insanity imo. Ferraro, Pelosi, Rodham Clinton all historical firsts. And its not like the Repubs have been absent either. A lot of prominent women policy makers are Republican. I think when you get down to the respective bases though, the consensus would be that the Dems are significantly more pro-woman, but that is speculation on my part.

But...lol....Palin's 17 year old daughter is 5 months pregnant and going to keep the baby (of course..."life">all) and get married to the father (of course, family "values">all). If we're dumb enough to fall for this mockery of national office its gonna be a rocking good time in the White House. Are there enough rooms for all the various offspring and step-offspring? I can hardly keep track of these prolific fornicators. Okay, explain it to me one more time...McCain is Palin's father or grandfather? Palin is just a mother or a grandmother? So confused.

Oops...
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Re: VP picks

Postby Disoputlip » Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:27 pm

"Finally, somebody who can pull in the Alaskan/pro-life/moose-hunting/woman vote."


The Onion American Voices:

http://www.theonion.com/content/amvo/mc ... alin_as_vp
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Re: VP picks

Postby Ambar » Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:30 pm

What does her daughter's unplanned pregnancy got to do with the way she will or will not do her job?
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Re: VP picks

Postby Kifle » Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:48 pm

Ambar wrote:What does her daughter's unplanned pregnancy got to do with the way she will or will not do her job?


Most notably that she is a vicious supporter of abstinence as birth control -- which is apparently the most effective by looking at her family. The fact that her family values include having a huge family and leaving them with absolutely no time to properly parent them. Shoving her 17yr old daughter into the public eye, along with her unborn child, so they can be scrutinized by the public shows a glaring lack of character -- caring more about her professional growth than her family's well-being.

She's an ineffective mother in conservative terms and an ineffective mother her own terms. This indicates character flaws that I personally don't find make a good second in command. She just isn't VP material and is nothing more than a tool for pandering for demographic votes McCain can't pull himself. Honestly, I'm glad they picked her. This is the final nail in McCain's train of fail that he calls a campaign.
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Re: VP picks

Postby Xisiqomelir » Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:49 pm

Ambar wrote:What does her daughter's unplanned pregnancy got to do with the way she will or will not do her job?


Well I mean, she can't tell a 17-year-old girl to make sure Slick wraps his junk up, and we might want her to tell Kim Jong-Il to dismantle a few nukes.
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Re: VP picks

Postby avak » Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:59 pm

Interestingly, there is nothing to suggest the pregnancy was "unplanned," but I like the inherent prejudice.

What does this have to do with her ability to govern? I guess that is dependent on the audience. To me personally, I don't much care. I think it should raise some eyebrows that this parent is so busy concentrating on a political career that her daughter got pregnant out of wedlock. I think it should draw attention to failed abstinence-only sex education; something touted by repubs like Palin. I think we should wonder about her ability to concentrate on her potential duties as VP while raising a DS baby and presumably mentoring her adolescent daughter/parent.

And most importantly, I think it has every thoughtful conservative in the country scared sh$%less about what scandal might break next. Seventy two hours in and you've got teen pregnancy, husband DUI and Troopergate.
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Re: VP picks

Postby Ambar » Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:13 pm

I needed the giggle, thanks :)

So every teen that ends up pregnant is the product of bad parenting?

Werd :)
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Re: VP picks

Postby Kifle » Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:27 pm

Ambar wrote:I needed the giggle, thanks :)

So every teen that ends up pregnant is the product of bad parenting?

Werd :)


I didn't expect you to read anything except what you wanted out of what I wrote. Thanks for fulfilling my expectations?

Werd
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Re: VP picks

Postby Vaprak » Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:13 am

Actually, from what I read Palin is FOR birth control (contraceptives, the pill, etc) but AGAINST abortion. I'm curious to read where it's been said that she is a supporter of abstinence as birth control as the only method. I've also read that Palin is a member of a rather large feminist movement fwiw, although she's sitll pro-life.

But yeah, a knocked up 17 year old daughter doesn't really make you a bad parent these days as far as I'm concerned. I think if your daughter makes it to 18 without getting knocked up at least once in this era it's a miracle.
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Re: VP picks

Postby Ragorn » Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:55 am

I don't really understand this response.

I'm curious to know what kind of role "positive family values" play in conservative thinking. It's a buzzword, but I'm interested to know how you guys integrate morality into your political perspective.

Palin's 17 year old daughter is pregnant out of wedlock. It was not a planned pregnancy... to even pose the idea is preposterous, and even a planned birth by an umarried mother is a violation of "traditional values" as they're preached. So I'm curious how you Palin supporters assimilate this information.

Is it ok because it's Palin's daughter and not Sarah Palin herself?
Is it ok because having an unplanned child shouldn't affect Palin's ability to lead?
Is it ok because, in the grand scheme of things, morality is of secondary importance when compared to political acumen and/or leadership ability?
Is it ok because this moral compromise is better than the thought of a Democratic president, in any case?

By all accounts, Sarah Palin's family life seems to run diametrically opposite to the values upheld by the same people who are endorsing her. Now, I'm used to hypocrisy and cognative dissonance from the right... but maybe you guys can explain this for real.
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Re: VP picks

Postby Vaprak » Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:08 am

I'm only fiscally conservative, not a regular conservative. I'm neither republican or democrat. I'm a moderate libratarian actually. I want small government, low taxes, fiscal conservation, more personal freedom, less involvement of the government in our daily lives, more state's rights, drug legalization, less military, less welfare, less social services, less legislation, fewer prisons, fewer lawyers/lawsuits, less laws.

My child was out of wedlock mainly because I don't support marriage of any fashion as it's a religious institution in my eyes and I'm not religious, at all. From a government standpoint the only real benefit of marriage is that it'd be less expensive to get health insurance for my partner. Not really worth the higher taxes we'd pay.

So yeah anyways after hearing about the knocked-up 17year old daughter, the husband's DUI, troopergate, whatever along those lines I still find the only thing I don't like about Palin to be that she supports teaching creationism in any fashion, what-so-ever. Everything else I either like or don't care enough about. I think the thing I like most about Palin is that she's not very traditional.
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Re: VP picks

Postby Sarvis » Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:09 am

Vaprak wrote:Actually, from what I read Palin is FOR birth control (contraceptives, the pill, etc) but AGAINST abortion. I'm curious to read where it's been said that she is a supporter of abstinence as birth control as the only method. I've also read that Palin is a member of a rather large feminist movement fwiw, although she's sitll pro-life.

But yeah, a knocked up 17 year old daughter doesn't really make you a bad parent these days as far as I'm concerned. I think if your daughter makes it to 18 without getting knocked up at least once in this era it's a miracle.



What era do you actually think this is? Teenage pregnancy rates are relatively low these days... I only knew one girl in my high school that got pregnant.
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Re: VP picks

Postby Lathander » Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:13 am

Kifle, your comment claiming that Palin is a bad mother is one of those things that really gets to me. You don't see anyone say someone is a bad father. It's only women that get that label. That's exactly what I meant by claim that you are sexist.
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Re: VP picks

Postby Vaprak » Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:26 am

Sarvis wrote:What era do you actually think this is? Teenage pregnancy rates are relatively low these days... I only knew one girl in my high school that got pregnant.


Right, I only knew 1 girl in my entire high school that got pregnant before I graduated in the mid 90's. However today in the present I have quite a few neices and nephews that are teenagers and between those relatives and their classmates I can think of dozens of pregnant teens or teenagers with kids. Maybe it's not a nationwide thing, but in my area there are a lot of teens with kids.
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Re: VP picks

Postby avak » Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:41 am

Democrats noted, before and after today's announcement, that Palin took a hard line on a question in 2006 from the conservative Eagle Forum Alaska:

Q: Will you support funding for abstinence-until-marriage education instead of for explicit sex-education programs, school-based clinics, and the distribution of contraceptives in schools?

SP: Yes, the explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support.


Also, for anyone that pays attention to the players in the con movement, you'll know pollster Frank Luntz. Here are some of his initial focus group findings:

The latest news could exacerbate doubts in voters' minds about Palin - doubts refected in a focus group of undecided voters this week organized by GOP pollster Frank Luntz. The group of 25 Midwestern voters, by a 2-1 margin, said they had deep concerns about Palin's experience.


To be quite honest, it is truly amazing to watch people try to save the sinking ship when the fate seems nearly inevitable. Palin was no stroke of genius. Best case scenario is that she 'energized the base.' You think the party loyalists are what win elections these days?
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Re: VP picks

Postby Lathander » Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:46 am

What did they think about Obama's inexperience?
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Re: VP picks

Postby Corth » Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:51 am

Zogby, which has been the most accurrate polling company in recent elections, has McCain leading by a couple of points. Quite amazing that after 8 years of a failed republican presidency that McCain is even close.

I don't think there is any question that the Palin pick was politically motivated. Just as the Biden pick was politically motivated for Obama. There are hundreds of people more qualified than Ms. Palin to be president. But nobody more qualified to get John McCain elected. He just won back support from Conservatives who were going to sit out the election, and at the same time won over a few percentage points of women who might otherwise have voted for Obama but want to see a female finally elected to this office. In a close race, this is a difference maker.
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Re: VP picks

Postby Ragorn » Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:06 am

Lathander wrote:What did they think about Obama's inexperience?

We generally think that it's little more than a Rush talking point that Fox News continues to repeat with the hopes that someone will take it seriously.

Typically, you'd think that Palin's nomination would take the experience card off the table. Not only because she is less experienced than Obama, but because it shows that experience was never really a concern for Republicans in the first place... it was merely a talking point.

The best part is, I'm sure it will continue to be a talking point, because avoiding hypocrisy was never particularly high on the Republicans' chart of priorities... just look at the behavior of their so-called "moral leaders" for proof of that.
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Re: VP picks

Postby avak » Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:15 am

This time, it's Zogby's turn to confuse the masses. His latest Reuters/Zogby poll, based on a sample of 1,089 "likely voters" drawn from listed telephone numbers, conducted Aug. 14-16, 2008, shows McCain over Obama by 46% to 41%.

Two days earlier, Zogby reported substantially different results. His online poll (of self-selected people who want to be part of his Internet polling sample) of 3,339 "likely voters," conducted Aug. 12-14, showed Obama with a three-point lead, 43% to 40%.

By Zogby's own calculation of the margins of error of each poll, the difference between the two polls in McCain's support (46% in the later telephone poll vs. 40% in the earlier online poll) is statistically significant. The difference in Obama's support (41% vs. 43% respectively) would not be statistically significant. Still, the 8-point difference in the margin of McCain's lead would be significant - a McCain 5-point lead vs. an Obama 3-point lead in the earlier poll.


So Corth, I take it you support the Zogby poll that shows McCain ahead?
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Re: VP picks

Postby Xisiqomelir » Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:55 am

Corth wrote:Zogby, which has been the most accurrate polling company in recent elections


wat

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Re: VP picks

Postby Corth » Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:57 am

avak wrote:
This time, it's Zogby's turn to confuse the masses. His latest Reuters/Zogby poll, based on a sample of 1,089 "likely voters" drawn from listed telephone numbers, conducted Aug. 14-16, 2008, shows McCain over Obama by 46% to 41%.

Two days earlier, Zogby reported substantially different results. His online poll (of self-selected people who want to be part of his Internet polling sample) of 3,339 "likely voters," conducted Aug. 12-14, showed Obama with a three-point lead, 43% to 40%.

By Zogby's own calculation of the margins of error of each poll, the difference between the two polls in McCain's support (46% in the later telephone poll vs. 40% in the earlier online poll) is statistically significant. The difference in Obama's support (41% vs. 43% respectively) would not be statistically significant. Still, the 8-point difference in the margin of McCain's lead would be significant - a McCain 5-point lead vs. an Obama 3-point lead in the earlier poll.


So Corth, I take it you support the Zogby poll that shows McCain ahead?


How the hell do you support a poll? You can support a candidate.. a poll.. I ummm, read?
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