VP Debate

Life, the universe, and everything.
Forum rules
- No personal attacks against players or staff members - please be civil!
- No posting of mature images/links, keep content SFW. If it's NSFW, don't post it on these forums.
Ragorn
Sojourner
Posts: 4732
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:01 am

VP Debate

Postby Ragorn » Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:54 am

Holy shit that was an ass whooping.

Biden '16.
- Ragorn
Shar: Leave the moaning to the people who have real issues to moan about like rangers or newbies.
Corth: Go ask out a chick that doesn't wiggle her poon in people's faces for a living.
kwirl
Sojourner
Posts: 780
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Delaware
Contact:

Re: VP Debate

Postby kwirl » Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:19 am

On the topic of being politically informed, does anyone know of a good 'english translation' breakdown of the current bailout bill in its most recent incarnation?
Corth
Sojourner
Posts: 6002
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 6:01 am
Location: NY, USA

Re: VP Debate

Postby Corth » Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:49 am

The bailout in layman's terms asks taxpayers to: "bend over"
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth

Goddamned slippery mage.
kwirl
Sojourner
Posts: 780
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Delaware
Contact:

Re: VP Debate

Postby kwirl » Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:12 am

well from what ive pieced together, and i dont know how much is true, basically during the bush administration certain banking laws were changed that allowed banks to trade mortgages as investments for tax purposes, so they put their cash resources into an inflated housing market. now that the market can't bear the inflated values, its falling down and the banks are holding all these useless mortgages and begging for government intervention for their cash reserves?
Vaprak
Staff Member - Areas
Posts: 630
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 5:46 pm
Location: Midwest

Re: VP Debate

Postby Vaprak » Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:55 am

kwirl wrote:well from what ive pieced together, and i dont know how much is true, basically during the bush administration certain banking laws were changed that allowed banks to trade mortgages as investments for tax purposes, so they put their cash resources into an inflated housing market. now that the market can't bear the inflated values, its falling down and the banks are holding all these useless mortgages and begging for government intervention for their cash reserves?


The current economic problems start way earlier than the Bush administration. Start looking back around the time of FDR's New Deal and the War on Poverty. Add the Community Reinvestment Act, artificially inflated housing prices, a deluge of new homes being built, and a false concept that housing prices can only go up and you've got your problem. All it takes is a dash of stupidity and a cup of greed and you've got your recipe for disaster.

Also, the legislation you're referring to that allowed investment banks to securitize mortgages was passed in 1999 by Bill Clinton (pushed through by a republican congress), and had nothing to do with the Bush administration.
Vaprak, the Destroyer
-Formerly Tempus of HomelandMUD -- pre-merger
Ragorn
Sojourner
Posts: 4732
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:01 am

Re: VP Debate

Postby Ragorn » Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:41 pm

Will someone make a bailout thread already? It doesn't need to hijack every other thread we have :P
- Ragorn
Shar: Leave the moaning to the people who have real issues to moan about like rangers or newbies.
Corth: Go ask out a chick that doesn't wiggle her poon in people's faces for a living.
avak
Sojourner
Posts: 672
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:01 am

Re: VP Debate

Postby avak » Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:48 pm

So, yeah, about that debate....

I find it astonishing what the public is willing to accept. Biden answered most of the questions directly and substantively while Palin evaded and stuck to talking points. Biden came off as dignified and regulated while Palin came off as mean and folksy. I thought it was a shame that the format was so unlike the first Presidential debate; it really played to sound bytes and talking points. Both candidates stuck to what appeared to be a scripted performance.

Biden and Obama/Biden win due to the fact that he controlled the debate. Palin looked like she was terrified of messing up while Biden looked like he was sitting around talking at a diner with friends. Palin gets points for performing substantially better than the abysmally low bar that was set for her.

The reality is that McCain/Palin need(ed) a miracle...another rabbit out of the hat. Barring an October Surprise that is just not going to happen. Today McCain is suspending his campaign in Michigan...surrendering. His strategy seemed to be to narrow the race down to swing states and battleground districts, but he's slipping in his support even there.

I was kind of hoping for a Palin implosion, but she pretty much held her own. She's not clear, looks bad at being evasive, comes off as provincial and mean, but I think most conservatives are happy with her. Like some pundit said, that will end talk of her dropping off the ticket.
Ragorn
Sojourner
Posts: 4732
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:01 am

Re: VP Debate

Postby Ragorn » Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:03 pm

Case in point: The gay marriage thing. Biden was excessively clear about his ticket's stance on the issue. They support civil unions with full constitutional rights, but they do not support redefining the word "marriage" to include homosexual relationships. Palin took no stance on the civil union part of the question, even when directly asked. She danced and fenced, and the only thing she really said was that she opposed redefining marriage. I got nothing from her at all.

Palin was very personable and very likable. However, she was all fluff and no substance. Don't get me started on "nukular," and when you're asked why you disagree with your running mate, saying that you are a "team of mavericks" doesn't fool anybody. Especially when the Head Maverick voted with the current administration 95% of the time.
- Ragorn
Shar: Leave the moaning to the people who have real issues to moan about like rangers or newbies.
Corth: Go ask out a chick that doesn't wiggle her poon in people's faces for a living.
teflor the ranger
Sojourner
Posts: 3923
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2002 5:01 am
Location: Waterdeep

Re: VP Debate

Postby teflor the ranger » Fri Oct 03, 2008 3:47 pm

Ragorn wrote:Holy shit that was an ass whooping.

Biden '16.


If only arguing about Bush lead to good national leadership.
Teflor does. Teflor does not.
teflor the ranger
Sojourner
Posts: 3923
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2002 5:01 am
Location: Waterdeep

Re: VP Debate

Postby teflor the ranger » Fri Oct 03, 2008 3:48 pm

Ragorn wrote:Palin was very personable and very likable. However, she was all fluff and no substance.


Just like Biden was on Obama's plan to turn around the economy?


Oh wait. Just like that...
Teflor does. Teflor does not.
Ashiwi
Sojourner
Posts: 4161
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 5:01 am

Re: VP Debate

Postby Ashiwi » Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:41 pm

I was rather surprised to find such positive reviews of Palin's debate last night. In my opinion, you give 'much improved' rewards to first grader writing skills and daycamp ceramics projects, but not vice presidential debate skills just because the person speaking was less of a trainwreck than you thought she would be.

I thought she was condescending, and I thought she was evasive on almost every topic put to her. She's wearing this costume of 'gotcha's' and 'geewhizzes' and is expecting that to sway the opinions of the people who don't know enough about the world to look beyond the smiles and winks and down-homeisms.

She was obviously very well coached, but she came off to me as very good at using distraction, posturing, and rote memorization of forcefed facts to cloak a lack of working knowledge of the topics and a refusal to take a stance on the questions her party knew would trip her up.

Biden wasn't afraid to give us his full opinion on the gay rights issue, nor was he afraid to take a stance and say what he felt was the issue in global warming. Being a "maverick" isn't a good excuse for deliberately trying to obfuscate the topic.

I agree with Rags... it was a very thorough whoopin'.
Gormal tells you 'im a dwarven onion'
Gormal tells you 'always another beer-soaked layer'

Inama ASSOC:: 'though it may suit your fantasies to think so, i don't need oil for anything.'

Haley: Filthy lucre? I wash that lucre every day until it SHINES!
Xisiqomelir
Sojourner
Posts: 870
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2002 5:01 am
Location: Ixarkon
Contact:

Re: VP Debate

Postby Xisiqomelir » Fri Oct 03, 2008 6:14 pm

Image
Thus spake Shevarash: "Invokers are not going to be removed"

Gura: ..btw, being a dick is my god given right as an evil.
Kifle
Sojourner
Posts: 3830
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 6:01 am
Location: Huntington, IN USA
Contact:

Re: VP Debate

Postby Kifle » Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:35 pm

I stopped watching as soon as she said "team of mavericks." Not only is McCain the opposite of a maverick, but the idea of a team of mavericks is an oxymoron. I hope she dies in a fire. Wait, I hope she poses for playboy and then dies in a fire.

Anyway, if the past two sets of debates are any indication of how the election will go, McCain/Palin will win. I can't remember one debate where Bush didn't look like an even dumber Palin, yet he still "won" -- twice. Democrats speak to the American public as if it had a collective I.Q. of over 80 while the republicans speak to the public as if they were a pack of kindergarteners. Rhetorically, the republicans have the better strategy, which is why I believe there is no sense in watching the debates anymore. No matter how stupid they come off, the public rallies behind them somehow. In fact, holding the debates has lost its usefulness. There needs to be a radical change in the rules of the debates, or they might as well stop holding them.
Fotex group-says 'Behold! penis!'

Kifle puts on his robe and wizard hat.

Thalidyrr tells you 'Yeah, you know, getting it like a jackhammer wears you out.'

Teflor "You can beat a tank with a shovel!!1!1!!one!!1!uno!!"
teflor the ranger
Sojourner
Posts: 3923
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2002 5:01 am
Location: Waterdeep

Re: VP Debate

Postby teflor the ranger » Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:49 pm

Ashiwi wrote:I was rather surprised to find such positive reviews of Palin's debate last night. In my opinion, you give 'much improved' rewards to first grader writing skills and daycamp ceramics projects, but not vice presidential debate skills just because the person speaking was less of a trainwreck than you thought she would be.

I thought she was condescending, and I thought she was evasive on almost every topic put to her. She's wearing this costume of 'gotcha's' and 'geewhizzes' and is expecting that to sway the opinions of the people who don't know enough about the world to look beyond the smiles and winks and down-homeisms.

She was obviously very well coached, but she came off to me as very good at using distraction, posturing, and rote memorization of forcefed facts to cloak a lack of working knowledge of the topics and a refusal to take a stance on the questions her party knew would trip her up.

Biden wasn't afraid to give us his full opinion on the gay rights issue, nor was he afraid to take a stance and say what he felt was the issue in global warming. Being a "maverick" isn't a good excuse for deliberately trying to obfuscate the topic.

I agree with Rags... it was a very thorough whoopin'.


I love how the democrats here can't see their candidates doing exactly the same thing.

Does someone want to explain the democrat platform without using words that describe shrubbery? So far, the ONLY concrete thing that they've presented is that they TOO refuse to change the definition of marriage. Way to take a stand.
Teflor does. Teflor does not.
avak
Sojourner
Posts: 672
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:01 am

Re: VP Debate

Postby avak » Sat Oct 04, 2008 12:51 pm

Huh. That's all you got out of the debate Teflor? The only concrete point was over the definition of marriage?

How about interpretation of the VP powers? How about Afghanistan strategy? There's no question that Biden evaded some questions; its a debate after all. Do you expect a civil war-style line up the issues and smash them together until someone wins debate?

I have yet to read a single review that would even suggest that Palin scored better than Biden on issue mastery or clarity. Please post them if they exist.

edit: good point, ragorn.
Last edited by avak on Sat Oct 04, 2008 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ragorn
Sojourner
Posts: 4732
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:01 am

Re: VP Debate

Postby Ragorn » Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:53 pm

avak wrote:Huh. That's all you got out of the debate Teflor? The only concrete point was over the definition of marriage?

I'm not going to derail the thread with this, but it's worth saying: Teflor does not argue or debate points, Teflor posts with the intent of getting people to reply to him. There are plenty of people in this thread and others who will be happy to hold a conversation with you.
- Ragorn
Shar: Leave the moaning to the people who have real issues to moan about like rangers or newbies.
Corth: Go ask out a chick that doesn't wiggle her poon in people's faces for a living.
teflor the ranger
Sojourner
Posts: 3923
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2002 5:01 am
Location: Waterdeep

Re: VP Debate

Postby teflor the ranger » Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:34 pm

avak wrote:Huh. That's all you got out of the debate Teflor? The only concrete point was over the definition of marriage?

How about interpretation of the VP powers? How about Afghanistan strategy? There's no question that Biden evaded some questions; its a debate after all. Do you expect a civil war-style line up the issues and smash them together until someone wins debate?


Interpretation of VP powers? First of all, I saw neither candidate's answer to that one being more concrete than the other. Second of all, snoozeville.

I'm sorry, but that's hardly an important point _at_all_.

Afghanistan strategy? This is a joke, right? Show me one American war strategy that held up over a year in that wasn't under George Washington. Back in those days, it TOOK a year to get enough information to develop a new strategy.

Finally, no, you are correct that I do not expect a civil-war style line up of the issues and smash them together until someone wins a debate - but don't you agree that this could potentially be much cooler?
Teflor does. Teflor does not.
teflor the ranger
Sojourner
Posts: 3923
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2002 5:01 am
Location: Waterdeep

Re: VP Debate

Postby teflor the ranger » Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:35 pm

Ragorn wrote:
avak wrote:Huh. That's all you got out of the debate Teflor? The only concrete point was over the definition of marriage?

I'm not going to derail the thread with this, but it's worth saying: Teflor does not argue or debate points, Teflor posts with the intent of getting people to reply to him. There are plenty of people in this thread and others who will be happy to hold a conversation with you.


I'm not going to derail the thread with what you've said either, but your pitiful assessment is hardly masterful neither is it correct. Go to hell and please, don't reply to me.

On a positive note, I am happy to see that there are people intelligent and reasonable enough to decide for themselves whether or not to hold a conversation despite the malicious intentions with which people like you have when they post unintelligent, ignorant, and blatantly personally harmful crap like this.

I never told anybody that they shouldn't talk to you, or that you weren't worth speaking to. But I guess perhaps they can find out for themselves. Way to represent.
Teflor does. Teflor does not.
teflor the ranger
Sojourner
Posts: 3923
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2002 5:01 am
Location: Waterdeep

Re: VP Debate

Postby teflor the ranger » Sun Oct 05, 2008 11:24 pm

Actually, I did think of one thing. The Obama/Biden campaign did give a significantly more committed response to the question on what causes 'global warming.'

Joe Biden did say that the causes were man-made. He then went on to speak about the reduction of greenhouse gas production.

I just happen to think that the whole 'man-made greenhouse gas' approach may be something worth thinking critically about:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/st ... 83,00.html

In case you know how to read:
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10 ... ranscript/
Teflor does. Teflor does not.

Return to “T2 General Discussion Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest