Violating your child's privacy

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Sarvis
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Re: Violating your child's privacy

Postby Sarvis » Sun Feb 15, 2009 7:35 pm

Kifle wrote:Just out of curiosity, I wonder how many of people in this thread actually have kids who also care enough about our kids to not let them be complete retards when they're young -- i.e. give them a high amount of privacy.

I have kids. I know rags, kiryan, and ashiwi have kids. We are all pretty close on this issue.

As for those who object, I know Sarvis doesn't have kids, I'm not sure about oteb.

I see a pattern.


I think you need to work on your pattern recognition skills. One occurrence does not create a pattern. In fact, the one occurrence you cite (me) hasn't even really argued against it... I've just questioned it and pointed out that a lot of the arguments Kiryan had cited had equivalents within government that came to exactly the opposite conclusion.

Anyway, what scared me the most as a kid was that my mom always found out. It didn't matter, she was magic, and she knew what I was doing. Now I realize she didn't, and she was just guessing most of the time due to behavior patterns. I have that same hold over my children -- dad knows everything. My oldest is now to the point where he realizes I don't know everything. Now I have to show him that, while I don't know everything, I can usually find out, so his probability of getting caught is still unfavorably high. He still fucks up, but he doesn't do it often, and he rarely does it twice -- because I catch him the first time.


Or he got better at hiding it...

I am able to catch him because I snoop at times, I listen when he doesn't think I'm listening, and I know how an 11yr old boy thinks. If I didn't snoop, he would be looking at porn on the internet (he's been caught and warned),


So now he does it at his friend's house.

he's attempted to run up an extremely high phone bill due to texting when he's not supposed to be (caught him before he costed me upwards of $600)... I could go on.

Anyway, I still think it's funny; and while the non-parents think they have all the answers to parenting just like us parents thought we did before we had kids, when the non-parents finally do have kids, they will understand why we do what we do and how quickly what you thought you were going to do changes.


Look, no one is saying you shouldn't try to watch over your kids. What I question is if there's a point where you take it too far, and cripple their development rather than protect them.

Just remember, you've got him for 7 more years. After that he's making decisions on his own, and if his only reason to make the right one is that he's afraid of you catching him... that's no longer a factor. Why do you think so many kids party so hard, have so much promiscuous sex and get into drugs in college? It's the first time they get away from their parents and can do things "without consequence."

Consider that your kids might be better served by teaching them how to make the right decisions, rather than teaching them to do so out of simple fear of getting caught.
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Kifle
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Re: Violating your child's privacy

Postby Kifle » Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:29 am

Lol, have kids Sarvis. We'll continue this discussion then.
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Re: Violating your child's privacy

Postby Sarvis » Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:36 am

Right. Don't listen or even think about what I said. No one but you can know anything. :roll:
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Re: Violating your child's privacy

Postby Kifle » Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:52 am

Sarvis wrote:Right. Don't listen or even think about what I said. No one but you can know anything. :roll:


Not saying that, Sarvis. I don't doubt you have good ideas about parenting. A lot of what you are saying right now is the same shit I said years ago before I had kids and when I had very young kids. However, things have changed. I've seen and done things that have changed my mind drastically.

Here's a good example. As a father, I don't want my daughters having sex... ever. And I mean that quite literally -- ever. But I know when I'm older, and they are gone, I will want grandkids. I expect my wants to change to the situation. Anyway, in the next 6 years, the middle will be at that age, and I'm very worried. I have plans to be strict, watch her every move, have her brother/sister spy. All sorts of shit -- and I could pull it off. I could smother her; however, I think, in that case, over watching is not good. I'd rather her talk to my wife about things -- whether she should do it, how to do it safe, what drugs do what, etc. Because, if I'm strict, she wont tell my wife because she knows my wife will tell me. So, my mind will change when it comes time. I don't want it to, I will try to find ways to know everything and keep controll while still maintaining a relationship with my daughters.

Parenting is a play it as it comes type of thing. You don't know it all beforehand, you don't know it all during, and your plans will always change to the circumstance if you are a good parent. So, when I tell you to have kids, it is for this reason. Parenting is just one of those things. I guarantee you will never replicate the feeling of watching your kid be born, take its first step, tell you "I love you" each and every time. You have yet to feel these things. You have no idea how you will react. Your mind will change, this I guarantee.
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Re: Violating your child's privacy

Postby Sarvis » Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:31 am

Kifle wrote:and I could pull it off.



Doubt it.

I could smother her; however, I think, in that case, over watching is not good. I'd rather her talk to my wife about things -- whether she should do it, how to do it safe, what drugs do what, etc. Because, if I'm strict, she wont tell my wife because she knows my wife will tell me.


Isn't this basically what I was advocating?

So, my mind will change when it comes time. I don't want it to, I will try to find ways to know everything and keep controll while still maintaining a relationship with my daughters.


Good luck trying to keep control. You can't watch her 24/7, and even GPS won't tell you what she's doing... just where she is. In the end, you need to ensure that she knows why not to do something more than you need to ensure you can catch her. In fact, it's really the only option as they get older!
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Re: Violating your child's privacy

Postby Kifle » Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:47 am

Lol, Sarvis. You have no idea what I can or cannot do. The fact that you doubt it shows how little you know me or how I resourceful I can be -- especially when it comes down to finding things out about people. I recently left a job -- as a private investigator. If I want to know, I will know.

Like I said, parenting is a game that changes, and you must change it. Know, however, that controlling and knowing are two different things. I think I confused terminology in my last post. I will watch; I will always watch, but I will only interfere when necessary. I will want to, but I wont smother my daughters; however, I will know who they are with and what they are doing a large majority of the time -- whether from first hand knowledge or deduction. The bottom line is, as Ash said, a child's privacy is not a right. If they show me they are not mature enough to have privacy, I will take it from them.

Lastly, you don't choose one or the other. It's not a choice of whether to deny them privacy or teach them morality -- you can do both at the same time. Welcome to the land of false dilema?
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Sarvis
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Re: Violating your child's privacy

Postby Sarvis » Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:59 pm

Kifle wrote:Lol, Sarvis. You have no idea what I can or cannot do. The fact that you doubt it shows how little you know me or how I resourceful I can be -- especially when it comes down to finding things out about people. I recently left a job -- as a private investigator. If I want to know, I will know.


Pride goeth before a fall?

Ugh, you made me quote scripture...

Anyway, I'm sure you're very resourceful. But if you're trying to find out what she's doing in the high school girl's bathroom for five minutes between every class you might be in more trouble than she is for sneaking that cigarette.


Like I said, parenting is a game that changes, and you must change it. Know, however, that controlling and knowing are two different things. I think I confused terminology in my last post. I will watch; I will always watch, but I will only interfere when necessary. I will want to, but I wont smother my daughters; however, I will know who they are with and what they are doing a large majority of the time -- whether from first hand knowledge or deduction. The bottom line is, as Ash said, a child's privacy is not a right. If they show me they are not mature enough to have privacy, I will take it from them.

Lastly, you don't choose one or the other. It's not a choice of whether to deny them privacy or teach them morality -- you can do both at the same time. Welcome to the land of false dilema?


"I have plans to be strict, watch her every move, have her brother/sister spy. All sorts of shit -- and I could pull it off. I could smother her; however, I think, in that case, over watching is not good. I'd rather her talk to my wife about things -- whether she should do it, how to do it safe, what drugs do what, etc. Because, if I'm strict, she wont tell my wife because she knows my wife will tell me. "

False dilemma? To a degree maybe, but as you said earlier once you lose your kids trust they aren't going to confide in you when they need advice the most.
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Re: Violating your child's privacy

Postby oteb » Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:41 pm

Kifle wrote:. I will watch; I will always watch, but I will only interfere when necessary. If they show me they are not mature enough to have privacy, I will take it from them.


You can't take away something they don't have silly wabbit.
You are acting like a paranoid freak and got guts to call my ways retarded. I don't want what you are smoking.
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Re: Violating your child's privacy

Postby teflor the ranger » Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:53 am

Kifle wrote:Lol, Sarvis. You have no idea what I can or cannot do. The fact that you doubt it shows how little you know me or how I resourceful I can be -- especially when it comes down to finding things out about people. I recently left a job -- as a private investigator. If I want to know, I will know.


But if he doesn't want to know, he has to resort to a technological ignore function and trying to make fun of someone the way people have made fun of him earlier in life. I guess that's resourceful?
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Re: Violating your child's privacy

Postby Raiwen » Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:43 am

oteb wrote:You are acting like a paranoid freak and got guts to call my ways retarded. I don't want what you are smoking.

No, he's acting as an involved parent. Every parent feels these things. Just because you FEEL it doesn't mean you ACT upon it.

It's natural. Just as altering your perception of things in order to maintain sanity is natural. If I worried the same about the safety of my son as I did when he was two (2) now that he is (5) five, then I'd go bat nuts crazy. They grow up, you learn to let go, and trust a little bit. When they step across those boundaries, you redraw them.

The trick is to balance between consistency and sanity.

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