The basic standard of living

Life, the universe, and everything.
Forum rules
- No personal attacks against players or staff members - please be civil!
- No posting of mature images/links, keep content SFW. If it's NSFW, don't post it on these forums.
kiryan
Sojourner
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
Contact:

The basic standard of living

Postby kiryan » Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:12 pm

I was listening to bloomberg give an interview about governmetn spending and taxes, 1% of tax payers in New York pay 50% of the income taxes. I think he said it was like 40k people. 50% pay not taxes and 30% get free money back from the government on their tax return.

So I got to thinking about the expansion of the social safety net, the programs to help people stay in their homes, to heating aid and food aid ect ect ect.. How much does that cost? What is the basic yearly cost of services a person is entitled too. I'd be interested in putting a $ figure on this for a family of 4.

$400 food
$800 rent
$1,000 medical insurance (actual cost of insurance not just the employee part)
$250 electricity and heating and water and sewer and trash
$200 transportation

and we haven't talked about minor household expenses like trash bags, toilet paper, paper towels, laundry soap, clothes ect ect.

$31,800 / year + household expenses. So if you make less than 31,800 a year, someone needs to give you enough money to bring you up to the minimum standard of living right... regardless of whether you are a fat lazy bastard or handicapped or a hard working McDonald's employee making minimum wage or a single mom who wants to have 3 children.

What do you think the minimum standard of living is and costs?
Ashiwi
Sojourner
Posts: 4161
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 5:01 am

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby Ashiwi » Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:38 pm

Don't forget car insurance, car repairs, tires, tags, house insurance (or renters' insurance), prescriptions, medical and dental out of pockets and copays, clothing, school supplies, taxes, home repairs, childcare, and a host of other things I can't think of right now!
Gormal tells you 'im a dwarven onion'
Gormal tells you 'always another beer-soaked layer'

Inama ASSOC:: 'though it may suit your fantasies to think so, i don't need oil for anything.'

Haley: Filthy lucre? I wash that lucre every day until it SHINES!
Gormal
Sojourner
Posts: 3917
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2001 6:01 am
Location: A Whale's Vagina
Contact:

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby Gormal » Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:02 pm

I like how a single mom who simply wants 3 children is entitled to money according to you.
Sarvis
Sojourner
Posts: 6369
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA
Contact:

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby Sarvis » Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:05 pm

Gormal wrote:I like how a single mom who simply wants 3 children is entitled to money according to you.


The question isn't whether the mom is entitled to money, but whether the children are entitled to not starve to death.
<a href="http://www.code-haven.com">Code Haven</a> - For all your programming needs.

I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write. - Some Guy Who Paraphrased Voltaire
kiryan
Sojourner
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
Contact:

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby kiryan » Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:20 am

Look, I'm just keying in on what government, what society, what basically EVERYONE out there seems to think everyone is entitled to. I want to put a price tag on the "minimum" standard of life here in the US that the government is going to guarantee.

I mean what do you think HUD housing is? What is welfare? What is SCHIP? We have ALREADY decided what the minimum standard is and we are actively growing it. And I know you can't discriminate against a single parent and 3 kids vs a family of 2 kids; if anything the single parent is more equal (entitled to more).

I think they should let you starve and freeze to death under a bridge if you can't figure out your own way, but thats me.

--

"Don't forget car insurance, car repairs, tires, tags, house insurance (or renters' insurance), prescriptions, medical and dental out of pockets and copays, clothing, school supplies, taxes, home repairs, childcare, and a host of other things I can't think of right now!"

i left that in + household expenses. I'm not sure you are entitled to a car (yet), but probably a bus pass if available. House / renters insurance... i'm talking the absolute basic minimum that we believe our quasi socialist government and society promises to all of us.

School supplies you technically don't have to buy. They can't kick you out of school if you don't buy them. I went down and had a shit fit at my school district for intimating that these were "required" and they conceded that they are not required and they have no recourse if you flat out ignore them. We bought them anyways, but I hate it when people try to make things look official so you don't question them.
Duna
Sojourner
Posts: 450
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 1:40 am
Contact:

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby Duna » Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:55 am

Well first, the $250 for utilities is about half of what the government actually considers...
I know that a family of 2, one parent one child is considered eligible for food stamps until the household income is $1500 a month. That is before any taxes or anything else, including bills. I believe that they add about $300 per household member, so about $2100 a month for a family of 4. Now it is considered that rent or mortgage costs should only be 25% of your monthly income. So a family of 4 will be just above the poverty level with an annual income of about $25000.
Someone working 40 hours a week at minimum wage earns $262 a week, or about $1100 a month. After minimum wage goes up this summer those figures will change to $290 a week, or about $1200 a month. Take the figures as you will, but you can see that even though people do try to live off of such income, it does fall below the poverty level.
"A true friend unbosoms freely, advises justly, assists readily, adventures boldly, and continues a friend unchangeably." - William Penn
" I"m built for comfort not for speed. " - Carl on Jimmy Neutron.
teflor the ranger
Sojourner
Posts: 3923
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2002 5:01 am
Location: Waterdeep

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby teflor the ranger » Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:44 am

The bell curve has two ends my friends.

Get used to it.
Teflor does. Teflor does not.
Ashiwi
Sojourner
Posts: 4161
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 5:01 am

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby Ashiwi » Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:02 pm

There are areas that do not have the wonderful public transportation systems that the larger cities do, and in those situations you practically have to have a car. If you can ride the bus, can you get off your job and get to the daycare before they close? You don't HAVE to have a car, but if you want to get ahead, it's almost a necessity unless you live in a large metroplex where everything is completely centralized. Sure, you can move, if you can afford it, but if you're going from an urburban or suburban area, you're moving your kids into a worse neighborhood for the same cost.

Now, if you work in a job that might call you in on short notice and you want to be there so you either A: don't get fired, or B: can be an excellent employee who gets raises and promotions that might lift you out of the poverty level, then you have a car, because not owning a car is going to leave you on foodstamps.

No, a vehicle isn't an absolute necessity to everybody, but jobs are getting more and more scarce. The majority of towns in the US don't have busses that run at night. If these people on foodstamps don't have reliable transportation to get to a evening or graveyard shift job, you're eliminating a large number of potential paycheck for them and ensuring their position in the welfare line.

Do I think anybody's entitled to social services that include transportation? Pffffft. No. I do, however, think that for many families those costs are a necessity given the local circumstances, and if we want them to work, until we get reliable mass transit instituted everywhere, it needs to be considered. You know the old adage... Give people a ride and they'll be at your door every day needing a trip to the 7-11, but help them finance a car and find a job, and they'll only need the occasional jumpstart.

Or did that have something to do with corn...
Gormal tells you 'im a dwarven onion'
Gormal tells you 'always another beer-soaked layer'

Inama ASSOC:: 'though it may suit your fantasies to think so, i don't need oil for anything.'

Haley: Filthy lucre? I wash that lucre every day until it SHINES!
Sarvis
Sojourner
Posts: 6369
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA
Contact:

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby Sarvis » Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:12 pm

Ashiwi wrote:You don't HAVE to have a car, but if you want to get ahead, it's almost a necessity unless you live in a large metroplex where everything is completely centralized


Why would we want them to get ahead? They're obviously inferior, or they would already be ahead!
<a href="http://www.code-haven.com">Code Haven</a> - For all your programming needs.

I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write. - Some Guy Who Paraphrased Voltaire
kiryan
Sojourner
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
Contact:

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby kiryan » Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:49 pm

Duna, I'm not so much interested in what the government actually compensates now or the poverty level or minimum wage. I'm trying to focus on what the basic standard of living is that society and government believes we are entitled too. If we can put a price tag on that, then we will see the deficit between actual services and eventual services.

So Ashiwi's vote is to include a car in the minimum standard of living. Thats another 250 in a car payment (or maintenance once you own your car) + another 100 for insurance, we'll use the 200 in "transportation" for gas making it a net add of $350.

$36,000 is now the minimum standard of living that we are entitled to and expect the government to provide. Plus household expenses (like clothes, garbage bags ect).

Anyone think my figures are too high too low? Should we add/remove something?
Adriorn Darkcloak
Sojourner
Posts: 1292
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 7:11 pm

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:21 pm

I'm not making much more than that, in a metropolitan area, and am the main provider for the family. That sounds too high Kiryan, especially for non-metropolitan areas.
Duna
Sojourner
Posts: 450
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 1:40 am
Contact:

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby Duna » Sat Feb 21, 2009 4:33 am

Your figures for utilities are too low. I wish my utilities only cost $250 a month. I think you should figure between $400 and $500 for utilities. The figures I gave were to help you determine what the basic standard of living might be.
"A true friend unbosoms freely, advises justly, assists readily, adventures boldly, and continues a friend unchangeably." - William Penn
" I"m built for comfort not for speed. " - Carl on Jimmy Neutron.
Gormal
Sojourner
Posts: 3917
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2001 6:01 am
Location: A Whale's Vagina
Contact:

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby Gormal » Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:29 am

You're wasting a lot of money if your utilities are that high.
Corth
Sojourner
Posts: 6002
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 6:01 am
Location: NY, USA

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby Corth » Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:45 pm

The problem with this kind of thread is that the cost of living varies so much by region. $60k a year for a household is hardly enough to live on in NYC (certainly not enough for Manhattan), but in much of the country thats solid middle class.

My own personal monthly expenses for necessities:

$1,825 rent (includes cable tv/internet)
$200 electricity + gas stove
$20 vonage phone line
Cars are paid off but until recently it was $470 per month car payment
$75 gasoline
I budget around $100 per month for auto repairs and maintenance
$130 per month car insurance
$700 groceries (there is some element of luxury here - we eat healthy and well)
$100 rough estimate per month of diapers and other baby related crap
$1,200 per month day care
$80 per month life insurance policies on both myself and my spouse

I'm probably forgeting some stuff. Excluding the car payment, it comes to approximately $4,500 in mostly after-tax dollars per month, or $54,000 per year, and this doesn't even include non-necessities like restaurants and vacations. Where I live this budget is pretty damn low... we live very frugally. If we had decided to purchase a house (we didn't because I expected the housing market to cliffdive) you could probably add another $30,000 per year to that total. The median house costs $450k or so in my county (after coming down some 15%), and about $1,000 per month in taxes. A small house in a good school district, which I consider a necessity, would probably be at least $500k. You could also add another 3-5k or so per year if there is a car payment, which happily in this case there isn't.

Conclusion - $90k per year (in mostly after tax dollars) is a budget on Long Island for a basic middle class family. If you want to save anything fore retirement or children's education, or enjoy some luxuries like restaurants and vacations.. oh that reminds me I left clothing out of this budget... then you basically need to make more than $90k.. or just simply never buy a house.

I would expect that in most of the country $90k would put you squarely in the upper class, in a large brand new house, with lots of money to spare. Not even close in the NYC/LI metro area.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth

Goddamned slippery mage.
avak
Sojourner
Posts: 672
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:01 am

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby avak » Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:56 am

There's also no health care in there Corth.

And what in the hell are you buying that costs $700/month for food?
Corth
Sojourner
Posts: 6002
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 6:01 am
Location: NY, USA

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby Corth » Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:18 am

I get healthcare through my wife's job. The baby has had some issues lately with ear infections, so add about $80 in co-pays per month.

Food. Well.. we buy lots of fresh food. Produce.. meats. Try to avoid the processed crap whenever possible. Don't really care about organic for the most part or I'd really be spending the dough. We do a big shopping once a week that costs around $140 - $200 (includes the baby's food). Then sometimes we pick up a few things throughout the week. Every other week we shop at a place that is similar to whole foods. Thats usually the $200 shopping. As I stated, there is an element of luxury in the food budget. For instance.. I only eat USDA Prime steak that has been dry aged. I'm a steak snob. Prime dry-aged strip steak or ribeye run around $25.00 per pound and the place I buy them from sells it at cost as a loss leader.

The food, btw, is a lot more expensive here. When I go camping in more rural areas I'm amazed how much cheaper the supermarkets are. Its just another cost of living issue for Long Island.

One last note.. I excluded some costs from that budget that I deduct as a self-employed business expense, such as cell phone bill, that I would likely continue to pay for as a personal expense if I was a W2 employee.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



Goddamned slippery mage.
Duna
Sojourner
Posts: 450
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 1:40 am
Contact:

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby Duna » Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:10 am

Wow, that's expensive meat Corth. I usually get the angus beef, which I think is about the same type as you're talking about, but I go more for round steaks and chuck roasts.. even not on sale those aren't more than $5-7 a pound.
You are right Corth, 60k a year would be living quite well here..
My monthly budget..
$480 Rent per month
$55 car and renters insurance
$20 trash service
$200 gas and electric(that's the budget amount, with gas stove and furnace and electric dryer)
$100 phone bill
$100 cable/internet
$100 groceries(that's mainly non food items, I also get food stamps to cover alot of the actual food items)
$100 gasoline
$20 credit card bill

That doesn't include anything for clothing, car maintenance, or other incidentals.
That's my basic budget every month. No there is not any health insurance, or life insurance listed. Not because I forgot them, but because I don't have them, can't afford them.
According to my federal tax return my income last year was 12k. That doesn't include child support which for me is about 6k a year. But it does include what is considered the taxable part of my grants for college.
"A true friend unbosoms freely, advises justly, assists readily, adventures boldly, and continues a friend unchangeably." - William Penn
" I"m built for comfort not for speed. " - Carl on Jimmy Neutron.
Corth
Sojourner
Posts: 6002
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 6:01 am
Location: NY, USA

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby Corth » Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:42 am

Its not the same thing. The big difference is the dry aging. You can't really get that at supermarkets or most butchers for that matter. Also, Angus purchased at the supermarket is almost always USDA Choice (or.. ugh.. Select), not Prime. Only 2% of Angus beef qualifies for Prime rating. Most people just won't taste the difference and thus its not worth buying the more expensive stuff. Steak snobbery is maybe my only luxury. I hardly ever buy myself clothing and I drive a 1999 Honda Civic. Seriously, I can't stand spending money but for good steak I make an exception. Maybe my goal in life is to cook a steak that can somehow compare to what they serve at Peter Luger.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



Goddamned slippery mage.
avak
Sojourner
Posts: 672
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:01 am

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby avak » Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:02 pm

Man Corth, you need to get hooked up with some local farmers. I suppose that is a major challenge in your part of the world though. I'm raising my first set of grassfed, grain-finished cattle this year...which steak snobs might argue is too lean. Have you tried any kobe beef? That stuff is wild. But yeah, the butcher is key.

How much does a seat at Luger's set you back?
Corth
Sojourner
Posts: 6002
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 6:01 am
Location: NY, USA

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby Corth » Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:53 pm

Kobe is kind of where I draw the line. I can't get myself to pay for that stuff, though I would love to try it. :)

By NYC standards, Lugers is actually not that expensive compared to other high end steakhouses. Steak for 3 is about $130. Add their tomato and onion appetizer, a few strips of thick broiled bacon, maybe some creamed spinach, and the tab comes to maybe $170 or so when I go with a friend. Its been rated by Zagat as the best steakhouse in NY for 24 years in a row.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



Goddamned slippery mage.
amena wolfsnarl
Sojourner
Posts: 439
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:14 pm
Location: grande prairie alberta canada

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby amena wolfsnarl » Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:30 pm

Im lucky i grew up in alberta and my friends had a big cattle farm so every now and than id buy a quarter of a cow off of him and get that done up. This has spoiled me for beef, Alberta beef is the good stuff, Ive actually been to restaurants where they charge you more to get alberta beef rather than the stuff that they regularly serve.
Dugmaren tells you 'Welcome to Canada, don't blame us if you're stupid enough to get eaten by the wild life'
Duna
Sojourner
Posts: 450
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 1:40 am
Contact:

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby Duna » Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:50 am

wow! well I have no clue about Butcher's. I'm sure there has to be at least one around here, I just haven't found them yet. I would actually be surprised if there wasn't at least one butcher around here.. There's just too many farms with cows not to have one around somewhere :)
"A true friend unbosoms freely, advises justly, assists readily, adventures boldly, and continues a friend unchangeably." - William Penn
" I"m built for comfort not for speed. " - Carl on Jimmy Neutron.
kiryan
Sojourner
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
Contact:

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby kiryan » Mon Feb 23, 2009 7:58 am

growing / farming your own beef is not the same as USDA prime. As corth said, only 2% of meet is USDA prime and the vast majority of that goes to restaurants. Kobe is like the best bite of steak you ever had, except a whole steak of it. I had it in Japan, I wouldn't pay for it again. Houstons is as much as I'm willing to spend, but I've been known to hit Flemmings once in a while.

again this isnt about your personal budget, its about what one could get by on in most locations to have the "minimum standard" of living that we as Americans try to give everyone through aid programs and entitlements. I imagine even in new york, you can find rat infested slums to live in for 800 a month and can probably feed a family of 4 on $400... albeit hot dogs, kraft dinner and chicken noodle soup...
Corth
Sojourner
Posts: 6002
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 6:01 am
Location: NY, USA

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby Corth » Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:57 pm

Kiryan,

You are probably right about the rat infested slums and crap food. My budget was more of a middle class one, not a minimum standard.

I think maybe the reason I haven't tried kobe is I unconsciously expect that it will be super tender like filet mignon, which I'm not a big fan of. Strip steak is maybe my favorite consistency. But now that I think about it.. its still a cow. Same body parts etc. Probably just a lot more fat, which is a good thing. Will have to try it at some point.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



Goddamned slippery mage.
Ashiwi
Sojourner
Posts: 4161
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 5:01 am

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby Ashiwi » Mon Feb 23, 2009 5:04 pm

I hate to gank Neo's thread, but everybody out there needs to listen to Corth, because that stuff you buy at Wal-Mart that they call "meat" is only meat because at one point at least 50% of it actually belonged to a dead animal.

Before I officially signed up for a leisurely life of redneckdom, I bought Wal-Mart meat. Once upon a time Wal-Mart had butchers on-site, but eventually those went away, and everybody who was buying their meat at the store continued to buy their meat in the same place. At about that point in time I lost my taste for hamburger. I never could put my finger on it, but I just couldn't bring myself to eat hamburgers at home because I never liked the flavor. I moved to the country, bought meat at the butcher, and picked up some ground round one night. The burger was phenomenal. I started eating meat again at what was really an unhealthy rate, and eventually had to cut back, because I would stop at the butcher, pick up some ground round or a small round steak, and eat that with maybe some brussels sprouts or green beans, three to four times a week.

One day, when I had to shop on a Sunday (local butcher is closed on Sundays) and was out of meat, I picked up a pound of ground round at Wal-Mart. After eating the meat from the butcher's for over a year, the taste difference was painfully, gaggingly, obvious. There's a flavor in the Wal-Mart meat that I can't identify, but it's something close to that black licorice flavor, and it leaves my tongue with a coated, numb feeling. I had to throw the rest of the pound of meat away, because nothing I put on the meat would disguise that aftertaste and I refused to feed the mystery concoction to my dogs.

Another benefit from buying at the butcher... I buy round steaks. Round steaks are a cheap cut of meat. If you buy them at Wal-Mart you pretty much need to marinate them or cook them until they disintegrate in order to make them as tender as what I buy. The round steaks I buy you can take straight out of the wrapping, sear to a rare state, and pull apart with two forks without any seasoning or marinating. A little salt, a little fresh cracked black pepper. Yum.
Gormal tells you 'im a dwarven onion'
Gormal tells you 'always another beer-soaked layer'

Inama ASSOC:: 'though it may suit your fantasies to think so, i don't need oil for anything.'

Haley: Filthy lucre? I wash that lucre every day until it SHINES!
Sarvis
Sojourner
Posts: 6369
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA
Contact:

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby Sarvis » Mon Feb 23, 2009 5:09 pm

But, but... large corporations make everything better!
<a href="http://www.code-haven.com">Code Haven</a> - For all your programming needs.

I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write. - Some Guy Who Paraphrased Voltaire
kiryan
Sojourner
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
Contact:

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby kiryan » Mon Feb 23, 2009 7:22 pm

Butcher provide phenomenal meat at usually a reasonable price. The difference between supermarket meat and the guy who butchers and hangs meat are night and day. A crappy piece cow aged properly and fresh will taste much better than some of your better cuts from a super market.

That extra taste Kelly is the ears, the hooves, the nose, and mostly the cartilige soft tissues. When they butcher a cow at a traditional industrial slaughterhous, there is very very very little wasted. They ere on the side of including a little extra vs throwing some away. Its a truly nightmarish process.
amena wolfsnarl
Sojourner
Posts: 439
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:14 pm
Location: grande prairie alberta canada

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby amena wolfsnarl » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:16 pm

Sometimes its better just to not ask whats in there and enjoy that hamburger...even though it is allowed to have a certain percentage of things like meal worm in it.... What you dont know doesnt hurt you as much.

Ive actually done maitenance in a slaughter house (in Brooks Alberta, drive by it sometime you wont miss it cause of the gagging smell). Fixing electrical and plumbing problems. I didnt last the week, it truly is a disgusting place, and Im not a person to get sick easily.

When i can i try and use butchers they treat the meat better and they have this lovely thing called customer service, my butcher goes out of his way to come say hi everytime i stop in. He recommends some new cuts for me to try and tries to get me to try some of his different types of sausages and unusual types of meat. By the way, try buffalo ground meat its way healthier for you and doesnt have any of those fun steriods or other things that they put into cattle. But when it comes to steak keep with the beef!
Dugmaren tells you 'Welcome to Canada, don't blame us if you're stupid enough to get eaten by the wild life'
Ashiwi
Sojourner
Posts: 4161
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 5:01 am

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby Ashiwi » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:53 pm

See, and here I thought it was that 15% "all natural" solution the beef is injected with in Wal-Mart. It must be a solution of mealworm and chicken beaks powdered and liquified. Those are "all natural" after all.

Now that you mention it... that funky taste it gets does kind of remind me of ... oh man, I'm gonna be sick. That's what that nasty smell reminds me of! When ladybugs and certain other insects die, they emit this nasty smell... like lightning bugs kept in a jar. EEeeewwww.


By the way... my package arrived and I'm so happy! I'm well on my way to setting up my ultimate dream of being able to watch DVD's from the comfort of my big Roman bathtub filled with hot water and bubbles. Yes, I already installed the DVD player. Now I have to work on the internet connection. Kiss Laurel for me. Love you guys!
Gormal tells you 'im a dwarven onion'
Gormal tells you 'always another beer-soaked layer'

Inama ASSOC:: 'though it may suit your fantasies to think so, i don't need oil for anything.'

Haley: Filthy lucre? I wash that lucre every day until it SHINES!
Kifle
Sojourner
Posts: 3830
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 6:01 am
Location: Huntington, IN USA
Contact:

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby Kifle » Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:24 am

This thread went from mostly pointless to delicious and straight to disgusting. It got me thinking of steak/hamburger recipies. Share yours. I want to see how much of a better beef cook I am than the rest of you.
Fotex group-says 'Behold! penis!'

Kifle puts on his robe and wizard hat.

Thalidyrr tells you 'Yeah, you know, getting it like a jackhammer wears you out.'

Teflor "You can beat a tank with a shovel!!1!1!!one!!1!uno!!"
Corth
Sojourner
Posts: 6002
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 6:01 am
Location: NY, USA

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby Corth » Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:25 pm

I was doing something a little weird with hamburgers for a while but it came out pretty good.

My brother bought me a handheld smoke gun. Basically, you put a few wood chips into a bowl, turn it on and light it, and it shoots smoke out. I would take the raw hamburger meat and put it in a ziplock bag. Mash it down really good so there is a lot of surface area. Then shoot some mesquite smoke into the bag and seal it. Let it sit in the fridge for half an hour until the smoke all got absorbed into the meat. Then add mix in some salt and pepper, shape into patties, and grill 'em up. It gets quite a bit of smokey flavor, and it can be done indoors.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



Goddamned slippery mage.
avak
Sojourner
Posts: 672
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:01 am

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby avak » Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:36 pm

One of my new favorites involves a cast iron pan. Put the pan in the oven on broil for 30 mins. It will get hot as hell. So hot that you need a leather glove and a pot holder to grab it. It will also smoke a lot, depending on how well seasoned it is. Then put the pan on a gas eye at high for another five minutes or more.

Steak prep: Use about one inch cuts. You can marinate or not; I don't for this. Rub with coarse salt and cracked pepper on both sides.

Put steaks on the pan for thirty seconds on each side. Then put the pan in the oven (broil) three minutes per side. Pull them out of the oven and put on a board for ten minutes. That resting period is critical to allowing the juices to reincorporate in the meat.

It is insanely simply and fast, but you won't believe the results.
Corth
Sojourner
Posts: 6002
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 6:01 am
Location: NY, USA

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby Corth » Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:05 pm

My favorite steak recipe is similar to Avak. I use a thicker cut. About 2 inches, sometimes thicker. Rub a bit of olive oil onto it and then rub in some sea salt and coarse pepper. In the mean time you are preheating the oven to 500 and letting a cast iron skillet heat up on the burner at the highest setting. When the skillet is superheated, scorch the steak on each side for 2 minutes. There will be a LOT of smoke. Then ladle some clarified butter over the steak, and put in the oven for 5 minutes, which should give you a nice medium rare. Remove from the skillet and let it rest 5-10 minutes.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



Goddamned slippery mage.
Kifle
Sojourner
Posts: 3830
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 6:01 am
Location: Huntington, IN USA
Contact:

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby Kifle » Wed Feb 25, 2009 9:33 am

I'm a grill man, and don't really enjoy an oven-cooked steak; however, I have never tried the iron pan style. I would imagine it would need to be seasoned well to really get a great taste out of it rather than smoking it on the grill. Also, Avak, I noticed you didn't use any type of oil in your prep -- why? I was under the impression that the oil helps seal in the moisture that the meat loses during cooking. The only steak I cook indoors is sirloin strips, and those are mostly just used in chinese dishes. However, I have tried using minced garlic, pepper, salt, onions, and green peppers a few times. I usually slow cook the onions (white) and peppers together in a bit of olive oil on a low-medium heat for a few minutes. I take them out but maintain the oil, add the garlic, turn up the heat to high and toss in the seasoned meat. The cooking time for the strips is very low. Toss the vegies in to singe and put it on rice.
Fotex group-says 'Behold! penis!'

Kifle puts on his robe and wizard hat.

Thalidyrr tells you 'Yeah, you know, getting it like a jackhammer wears you out.'

Teflor "You can beat a tank with a shovel!!1!1!!one!!1!uno!!"
Corth
Sojourner
Posts: 6002
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 6:01 am
Location: NY, USA

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby Corth » Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:41 pm

I used to do it with an aluminum pan and it came out basically the same. The purpose of using the skillet is not for the flavor.. its for the texture. Its the only way, short of having a broiler like Lugers that is more or less a blast furnace, to get a good crust on the outside of the meat while keeping the inside red. Then you throw it in the oven for a few minutes to get the inside cooked just a little bit.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



Goddamned slippery mage.
kiryan
Sojourner
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
Contact:

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby kiryan » Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:40 pm

Does anyone have one of those vacuum marinaters that you see on home shopping network? I've always wanted to buy / try one of those.

One of my favorite recipes is what I call meat and rice. I buy a large piece of london broil and cube it. Then I put some oil in and add some pepper, garlic, onions and soy sauce in a deep skillet and slow cook/simmer it (a lot of moisture will seep out of the meat, so don't add too much soy). Sometimes it comes out tough, so I typically cube the meat finger tip sized to prevent that from ruining my meal. Then I drizzle the meat and sauce over rice. I love it, but not exactly a "good steak".
Adriorn Darkcloak
Sojourner
Posts: 1292
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 7:11 pm

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:57 pm

Corth
Sojourner
Posts: 6002
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 6:01 am
Location: NY, USA

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby Corth » Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:19 pm

Kiryan,

I have a foodsaver vacuum sealer which you can use to marinate in that manner.. but its also useful for just vacuum sealing food in general. Particularly for freezing. Marinating food is a vacuum is extremely effective. It basically accomplishes in an hour what might otherwise take a whole day.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



Goddamned slippery mage.
Nokar
Sojourner
Posts: 144
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2001 6:01 am
Location: kokomo, in, usa

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby Nokar » Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:31 pm

You also have to take into consideration the amount of people who turn down jobs that are more than 20 hours a week because it would interfere with there welfare assistance.


Duna wrote:Wow, that's expensive meat Corth. I usually get the angus beef, which I think is about the same type as you're talking about, but I go more for round steaks and chuck roasts.. even not on sale those aren't more than $5-7 a pound.
You are right Corth, 60k a year would be living quite well here..
My monthly budget..
$480 Rent per month
$55 car and renters insurance
$20 trash service
$200 gas and electric(that's the budget amount, with gas stove and furnace and electric dryer)
$100 phone bill
$100 cable/internet
$100 groceries(that's mainly non food items, I also get food stamps to cover alot of the actual food items)
$100 gasoline
$20 credit card bill

That doesn't include anything for clothing, car maintenance, or other incidentals.
That's my basic budget every month. No there is not any health insurance, or life insurance listed. Not because I forgot them, but because I don't have them, can't afford them.
According to my federal tax return my income last year was 12k. That doesn't include child support which for me is about 6k a year. But it does include what is considered the taxable part of my grants for college.


By my figures you bring in 6,500 a year in child support. There is also health insurance on your youngest.
Rhoquinn group says 'Nok no wandering!'
You group say 'Is there any aggro's here?'
You flee westward!
You group say 'ummm guys?'
Rhoquinn group says 'Dammit Nok'
Welcome to toril
amena wolfsnarl
Sojourner
Posts: 439
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:14 pm
Location: grande prairie alberta canada

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby amena wolfsnarl » Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:29 pm

Nokar wrote:You also have to take into consideration the amount of people who turn down jobs that are more than 20 hours a week because it would interfere with there welfare assistance.


Duna wrote:Wow, that's expensive meat Corth. I usually get the angus beef, which I think is about the same type as you're talking about, but I go more for round steaks and chuck roasts.. even not on sale those aren't more than $5-7 a pound.
You are right Corth, 60k a year would be living quite well here..
My monthly budget..
$480 Rent per month
$55 car and renters insurance
$20 trash service
$200 gas and electric(that's the budget amount, with gas stove and furnace and electric dryer)
$100 phone bill
$100 cable/internet
$100 groceries(that's mainly non food items, I also get food stamps to cover alot of the actual food items)
$100 gasoline
$20 credit card bill

That doesn't include anything for clothing, car maintenance, or other incidentals.
That's my basic budget every month. No there is not any health insurance, or life insurance listed. Not because I forgot them, but because I don't have them, can't afford them.
According to my federal tax return my income last year was 12k. That doesn't include child support which for me is about 6k a year. But it does include what is considered the taxable part of my grants for college.


By my figures you bring in 6,500 a year in child support. There is also health insurance on your youngest.


Quit trying to hijack the thread this is now about steaks!
Dugmaren tells you 'Welcome to Canada, don't blame us if you're stupid enough to get eaten by the wild life'
Kifle
Sojourner
Posts: 3830
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 6:01 am
Location: Huntington, IN USA
Contact:

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby Kifle » Wed Feb 25, 2009 8:57 pm

Kyrian, you may also want to try oyster sauce instead of soy, and flashing the meat after cooking the vegies while keeping whatever sauces you use. The meat will come out more tender.
Fotex group-says 'Behold! penis!'

Kifle puts on his robe and wizard hat.

Thalidyrr tells you 'Yeah, you know, getting it like a jackhammer wears you out.'

Teflor "You can beat a tank with a shovel!!1!1!!one!!1!uno!!"
amena wolfsnarl
Sojourner
Posts: 439
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:14 pm
Location: grande prairie alberta canada

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby amena wolfsnarl » Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:29 pm

Kifle wrote:Kyrian, you may also want to try oyster sauce instead of soy, and flashing the meat after cooking the vegies while keeping whatever sauces you use. The meat will come out more tender.


Oyster sauce adds all sorts of nice flavor without a doubt, Try orange juice and italian dressing sometime, its pretty good. marinading your steak is nice, but there is something to be said for the pure flavour of a steak just off the bbq.
Dugmaren tells you 'Welcome to Canada, don't blame us if you're stupid enough to get eaten by the wild life'
Corth
Sojourner
Posts: 6002
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 6:01 am
Location: NY, USA

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby Corth » Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:50 pm

I would never marinate a good streak. If your cooking less quality meat, or if your cutting it up for stir fry or whatnot, then sure.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth



Goddamned slippery mage.
Kifle
Sojourner
Posts: 3830
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 6:01 am
Location: Huntington, IN USA
Contact:

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby Kifle » Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:24 am

Yeah, I'm with corth. I don't marinate steaks. I buy a steak for the natural flavor and only add a bit of salt and pepper for taste and olive oil to seal in mosture. I really would like to try the iron pan way so I can get the seared outside without compromising the tenderness. I have only been able to do that on the grill.

What about burgers? I don't cook them often because my way is very fatty, but it is delicious. Butcher ground beef, chili powder, garlic salt, pepper, minced green pepper, minced red pepper, a bit onion powder, minced garlic. Add everything but the minced garlic into the patty, and cook in a pan with the minced garlic. Top it with onion, lettuce, munster, colby, and provalone cheese (that's where the fat comes in).
Fotex group-says 'Behold! penis!'

Kifle puts on his robe and wizard hat.

Thalidyrr tells you 'Yeah, you know, getting it like a jackhammer wears you out.'

Teflor "You can beat a tank with a shovel!!1!1!!one!!1!uno!!"
Duna
Sojourner
Posts: 450
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 1:40 am
Contact:

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby Duna » Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:20 am

I also like a nice thick steak.. I use a boneless chuck roast, yes a roast. turn the broiler on high, let it warm up with the broiler pan in it.. after about 10 minutes or so it's nice and hot.. open the broiler, put the "steak" on, the pan is hot enough to sear the bottom, put some lemon pepper on it and let it cook about 5 - 10 minutes then flip it and let it cook another 10 minutes or so. Then put the broiler on low, and it will cook the inside a bit more.. Pretty much the same thing Corth and Avak do, but all on the broiler. :) it comes out tender and juicy :) and very good.
"A true friend unbosoms freely, advises justly, assists readily, adventures boldly, and continues a friend unchangeably." - William Penn
" I"m built for comfort not for speed. " - Carl on Jimmy Neutron.
Ragorn
Sojourner
Posts: 4732
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:01 am

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby Ragorn » Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:58 am

Fuck you assholes, now I want a steak.
- Ragorn
Shar: Leave the moaning to the people who have real issues to moan about like rangers or newbies.
Corth: Go ask out a chick that doesn't wiggle her poon in people's faces for a living.
Ragorn
Sojourner
Posts: 4732
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:01 am

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby Ragorn » Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:08 am

Oh, and my burger recipe involves ground beef, finely minced onions, minced red bell pepper, onion and garlic powder, worchestershire, and breadcrumbs (to hold the patties together). Mix, patty, slap on a pan, cheddar cheese and a large slice of fresh white onion. Yes. YES.
- Ragorn
Shar: Leave the moaning to the people who have real issues to moan about like rangers or newbies.
Corth: Go ask out a chick that doesn't wiggle her poon in people's faces for a living.
Kifle
Sojourner
Posts: 3830
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 6:01 am
Location: Huntington, IN USA
Contact:

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby Kifle » Thu Feb 26, 2009 10:47 am

Would somebody please tell me the proper way to use worchestershire sauce? I have attempted this on my burgers but they eather get so wet they fall apart, or I can't tell any noticable taste change. I've tried using it as an "oil" and cooking the meat on it in the pan... all sorts of things. I love the smell and taste, but it is always lost in the burger...
Fotex group-says 'Behold! penis!'

Kifle puts on his robe and wizard hat.

Thalidyrr tells you 'Yeah, you know, getting it like a jackhammer wears you out.'

Teflor "You can beat a tank with a shovel!!1!1!!one!!1!uno!!"
Ragorn
Sojourner
Posts: 4732
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:01 am

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby Ragorn » Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:56 pm

That's the beauty of the breadcrumbs, they act like mortar to hold the patties together, so you can add more wet ingredients without getting slop. I don't know how much of each to add because I do it by sight, but you want to add enough worchestershire to enhance the flavor without turning the beef brown, and enough breadcrumbs to help provide support without turning the beef white.
- Ragorn
Shar: Leave the moaning to the people who have real issues to moan about like rangers or newbies.
Corth: Go ask out a chick that doesn't wiggle her poon in people's faces for a living.
Ashiwi
Sojourner
Posts: 4161
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 5:01 am

Re: The basic standard of living

Postby Ashiwi » Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:11 pm

You would ruin a perfectly good butcher-blended burger with breadcrumbs?????

My suggestion would be to put a smaller cast iron skillet on the fire and get it good and hot, then when your burger finishes cooking, throw a good sized splash of worcestershire in the small skillet so that it immediately starts to cook off, slap your burger on that and rub it around then plate it and let it sit for a minute to let the juices reincorporate.
Gormal tells you 'im a dwarven onion'
Gormal tells you 'always another beer-soaked layer'

Inama ASSOC:: 'though it may suit your fantasies to think so, i don't need oil for anything.'

Haley: Filthy lucre? I wash that lucre every day until it SHINES!

Return to “T2 General Discussion Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests