iran and the bomb and that one report

[kiryan]

I remember a report back a couple years ago that came out of some intelligence community and really put Bush in a bind. It said something like Iran had halted its nuclear program and was several years away from making a bomb. It sounded like the report was some sort of political coup (kind like the GAO and its financial report on Obama's healthcare plan). There were even some minor reports that other countries were shocked (by implication because they knew / suspected different).

Anyhow I found this article from timesonline UK interesting. basically, iran can already detonate a nuclear device, and can make one within 6 months to 1 year. Practically speaking, the only two things limiting them are the fissible material and a rocket capable of reaching Israel. Notice they dramatically improved their nuclear material reprocessing over the past couple years and launched a lot of rockets.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 736785.ece

So my thoughts are...

Was the intelligence report legitimate "science" or based on some political partianship? Bush was embarassed quite thoroughly by the official report basically undercutting his arguments.

do you allow Iran to have the bomb?

What is Obama going to do about it when sanctions don't work?

[Todrael]

When Israel and its allies attack the Iranian nuclear program with bombing or other physical force, we will be perilously close to World War III. I sincerely hope that your warmongering fails to motivate enough people to allow this to happen, and I oppose your desire to preemptively crush other nations out of fear.

[Yasden]

I say we just turn the whole region into glass and be done with entire situation forever.

[Kifle]

I say we just turn the whole region into glass and be done with entire situation forever.

^^ As much as I dislike war, it would be nice if the world just left them alone for a decade or so, and came back to see who was left. I think Israel overstepped it's bounds a long time ago with Palestine, and I wouldn't be too upset if somebody set them straight. To be honest, I hope they blow up the "holy land" so they can cry when it's unvisitable due to nuclear fallout. They'd probably end up fighting over some other insignificant strip of land though.

[Corth]

The funny thing is that much of the arab world wants Israel to bomb Iran to the dark ages. A nuclear Iran is just as scary for all its neighbors as it is for Israel. Interesting bedfellows...

I'm not sure what to think. On one hand, a nuclear Iran is pretty much unacceptable. On the other hand I would much prefer to see a diplomatic solution if possible. Unfortunately it does not seem like Iran will negotiate under any circumstances. If there are no other options I would fully support Israel bombing Iran's nuclear sites as it did to Iraq in the early 80's.

As for the WWIII comment - that is kind of silly. A regional war? Perhaps but unlikely. Who exactly is going to actually take up arms against Israel and in support of Iran? This is the last thing China, Russia, or pretty much anyone else wants to get involved in.

[kiryan]

IF we pay for it, we have to regulate it. Despite the positions I often take, I would be fine if we stop giving money to everyone out there and just mind our own business. Isolationism. Let the bleeding hearts in Europe save the people of Africa, feed India, Pakistan and North Korea, protect eastern Europe.

The Bible talks about the end times and it seems to talk about a war breaking out I believe in Israel and it talks about everyone rising up against the whore of Babylon. I wouldn't be surprised if Israel and Iran went to war and that the USA turns out to be the whore. I also wouldn't be foolish enough to say that will be the case, but I'll have some real concerns if Iran and Israel ignite.

[Sarvis]

everyone rising up against the whore of Babylon.

Really? Everyone? I mean, doesn't it normally just take one good serial killer to take out a whore?

That said, China's the one selling itself out to all the first world countries on the cheap and spreading disease with it's shoddy, lead-laden toys. Maybe China's the whore?

Or maybe the whole thing's ridiculous and Corth's right. 90% of the world has no reason to fight each other any more, we're all better off trading. The only real incentives for war seem to come out of Religion.

[kiryan]

Hey I'm just sharing something from the Bible. And your comments about the whore again show your complete misunderstanding of the Bible.

You can't just say I know what the word whore means so you can generally apply the principles and come up with an equal weight argument. There are aspects of the whore of babylon described in Revelations that I think line up well with the USA, despite the fact we exploit cheap labor throughout the world and essentially rule through economic muscle and a willingness to engage in military conflicts througout the world.

Also, please note I've never said Islam is an evil religion because of jihadists. I understand the actions of people do not equal the religion, something you seem to miss. Also, You are a complete asshat.

I do agree with your religion and war comment, however, I'll refine it. Most of war today seems to come out of religion being used as a means to gain power over people... whether its christian or muslim. The religion is not responsible, the people using it are.

[Sarvis]

Hey I'm just sharing something from the Bible. And your comments about the whore again show your complete misunderstanding of the Bible.

Or that I was joking about how ridiculous it sounds. But hey, take your pick.

Also, please note I've never said Islam is an evil religion because of jihadists. I understand the actions of people do not equal the religion

Really? That's odd, considering the religion attempts to teach people how to live. I mean, when parents abuse their children and the children grow up to be serial killers, do we say the actions of the kids do not reflect on the parents?

Also, You are a complete asshat.

Quite possibly. So how's that "Judge not lest ye be judged" bit working out for you?

I do agree with your religion and war comment, however, I'll refine it. Most of war today seems to come out of religion being used as a means to gain power over people... whether its christian or muslim. The religion is not responsible, the people using it are.

The religion IS the people using it.

[kiryan]

You do not know what "judge" means in the context of that scripture. But go ahead and continue with your ignorant prattle.

[Disoputlip]

I find it wierd that some contries can have it, and others don't.

E.g. if Sweden wanted the bomb they could have it within a few years. (We are talking without help from the outside). Israel most likely got it, and noone insist UN to visit the country over that.

There was a big fuzz when Pakistan and India got it, but now it is sort of accepted.

The region east of Iran is beginning to be a big mess border-wise. China is moving troops close to India, the whole north Pakistan is bad, just like the whole Kashmir. China got nukes and can even launch them from submarines.

I doubt US moved into Iraq because of the bomb. The main reason, I think, was the political branch that beleived that they could move in, and quickly restore democracy to Iraq. Today those people have a more realistic view.

Ofcourse I am worried that a madman gets the bomb, but I think the world has to realise that nations that wish to enrich uranium can do it. I am even torn when it comes to trade embargoes, because it normally doesn't hurt the leaders of a nation very much.

[kiryan]

If you were walking down the street and saw a kid, not your kid not really your friends kid, but maybe some neighborhood kid... who had a reputation for doing shady things and had threatened to burn down someones house.... and he was making moltov cocktails out of household chemicals and testing them out trying to perfect the right blend to make a truly dangerous weapon.... would you keep walking?

Would you sell him empty bottles and lighter fluid?
Would you pay him to mow the grass?