Why don't I trust Fox News? (Part 2)

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Why don't I trust Fox News? (Part 2)

Postby Ragorn » Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:52 pm

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Re: Why don't I trust Fox News? (Part 2)

Postby kiryan » Mon Jan 11, 2010 8:16 pm

lol. I might have to get and start watching TV so I can watch Sarah on Fox!
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Re: Why don't I trust Fox News? (Part 2)

Postby Ragorn » Mon Jan 11, 2010 8:21 pm

I love Sarah Palin. She's better entertainment than any late night host.
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Re: Why don't I trust Fox News? (Part 2)

Postby kiryan » Mon Jan 11, 2010 8:43 pm

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/01/ ... id-report/

"The venerable CBS News magazine “60 Minutes” aired a report Sunday night focusing on the new political book, “Game Change,” a 2008 presidential campaign tell-all that exposed Sen. Harry Reid’s “light skinned” and “no Negro dialect” comments about then-candidate Barack Obama. But viewers would never know about the Reid controversy from Anderson Cooper’s reporting. Cooper, also host of a CNN news program, instead used more than 10 minutes of his 13-minute report to obsess over Sarah Palin -- without a word about Reid. What do you make it all?"

CBS and CNN fair and balanced? 10 minutes on Palin, nothing on Harry Reid making racist comments? That is why I do watch Fox, because the liberal rags only report what supports their agenda.
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Re: Why don't I trust Fox News? (Part 2)

Postby Ragorn » Mon Jan 11, 2010 8:46 pm

Reid apologized, Obama accepted and said "the book is closed." How much more right-wing self-fellatio do you want on that topic?
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Re: Why don't I trust Fox News? (Part 2)

Postby Ragorn » Mon Jan 11, 2010 8:51 pm

Bonus Republican making racist remarks about Obama last week: http://www.startribune.com/politics/sta ... _Yyc:aUUsZ

Where's kiryan's outrage?
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Re: Why don't I trust Fox News? (Part 2)

Postby kiryan » Mon Jan 11, 2010 9:31 pm

I don't have a problem with people talking in a politically incorrect way. I have a problem with Republicans getting crucified and accused of racism by the media and the two most racist men in america (sharpton and Jackson) and Democrats getting a free pass when they make similar or worse statements.

I dislike both PC and racism, but I absolutely hate the double standard.

Oh and the republican running for state office in Minnesota said "Obama was an arrogant black man." wow that is racist. he accurately identified obama was black, omg he intimated that black men should be submissive to the masta not arrogant uppity niggers. fuk people are stupid.

Sotomayer said a wise latina woman would come to a better decision than a white man. I mean holy shit she literally said Latina women are better than white men... that is one of the most racist things that i have heard a person in a powerful position say. but it was ok, see she's not racist, she has a record of promoting minority agenda so its not racist. Also, she's a minority and since minorities don't have power they can't be guilty of discrimination or racism (this is literally what sharpton preaches).

Ok well she technically said wise latina vs a white man who hadn't had those experiences. If she meant to say they were equal she could've just said "a latina women will make just as wise decisions as a white male". Or she coudl've followed up and said a wise white man will make just as good of decisions as a wise latina woman. she didn't say that because the emphasis was on a wise latina being better than your average white male. R A C I S T and now a supreme court justice.
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Re: Why don't I trust Fox News? (Part 2)

Postby kiryan » Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:16 pm

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-g ... 18772.html

Might as well make this the racism thread!

Huffingtonpost calling out Democrats for the double standard. Mostly in the you take minority voters for granted and it shows because you use racist terms in private (otherwise you would've never used them in public or on the record) with a little acknowledgment and calling out that minoritie + Ds foster an environment where only they can talk about "sensitive racial issues" because if anyone else does they are a racist.
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Re: Why don't I trust Fox News? (Part 2)

Postby kiryan » Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:18 am

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/01 ... ing-obama/

Rep. Barbara Lee, chairwoman of the Congressional Black Caucus, released a written statement Monday saying Reid "understands the gravity" of his comment but should remain as majority leader. She said Reid, unlike Republicans, works on behalf of poor and minority communities.

yea, so no big deal because Reid supports their agenda. LOVE IT. also love that she takes a pot shot at republicans because apparently they only work for and represent white people.
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Re: Why don't I trust Fox News? (Part 2)

Postby kiryan » Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:22 am

http://www.foxnews.com/slideshow/politi ... ng?slide=5

Sen. Robert Byrd

March 4, 2001: In an interview with "Fox News Sunday," Byrd, a West Virginia Democrat who in the 1940s was active in the Ku Klux Klan, twice used the term "white niggers" when asked about race relations.

"My old mom told me, 'Robert, you can't go to heaven if you hate anybody.' We practice that. There are white niggers. I've seen a lot of white niggers in my time. I'm going to use that word. We just need to work together to make our country a better country, and I'd just as soon quit talking about it so much," he said.

The Outcome: Got a pass. Byrd apologized for the comment shortly afterward and won re-election in 2006. He is the Senate's longest-serving member.

Holy shit, lol, and I thought I was the only person that still used the term white nigger. I could be a US senator if I change my registration to D!
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Re: Why don't I trust Fox News? (Part 2)

Postby teflor the ranger » Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:24 am

Oh, I'm sure a former governor and vice presidential candidate will have nothing to offer the public.
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Re: Why don't I trust Fox News? (Part 2)

Postby Ragorn » Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:07 pm

kiryan wrote:I don't have a problem with people talking in a politically incorrect way. I have a problem with Republicans getting crucified and accused of racism by the media and the two most racist men in america (sharpton and Jackson) and Democrats getting a free pass when they make similar or worse statements.

Yeah, I'd never deny that Sharpton and Jackson are both racists. I'm not amused by their witch hunting either.

Ok well she technically said wise latina vs a white man who hadn't had those experiences. If she meant to say they were equal she could've just said "a latina women will make just as wise decisions as a white male". Or she coudl've followed up and said a wise white man will make just as good of decisions as a wise latina woman. she didn't say that because the emphasis was on a wise latina being better than your average white male. R A C I S T and now a supreme court justice.

When she made that comment, there was a huge media explosion and an investigation into her history on the bench, and they found that Sotomayor had a history of promoting minority agendas but a record of fairness in the courtroom. You, and many other conservatives looking for a reason to condemn Obama's appointee, are trying to insist upon a sentiment of racism that isn't there based on one statement she made. Her history speaks otherwise.

Racism is alive and well in America. However, I honestly think we all need to chill the fuck out about it. You're not a racist because you disagree with Obama. You're not a racist because you voted against Obama, unless the primary reason you didn't vote for him is because he's black. Harry Reid isn't a racist for using the phrase "negro dialect" any more than Mike Parry is for saying "arrogant black man."

Seriously.

Holy shit, lol, and I thought I was the only person that still used the term white nigger. I could be a US senator if I change my registration to D!

How many Strom Thurmond quotes would you like me to dig up for you? :)
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Re: Why don't I trust Fox News? (Part 2)

Postby kiryan » Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:15 pm

Byrd is still in the senate and a D to boot.

The problem with Harry Reid's quote is not that he used the word negro; the word negro is on the census form and has been for some time. It was the implication that light skinned is more favorable than dark skinned and that Obama has no trace of a negro dialect unless he chooses to express it... meaning he might choose or not choose to express it depending on the circumstances and that was great. He treated this nonchalantly and thats where its racist, the attitude, the acceptance of racist conduct.

I had a cathartic moment yesterday on a 5 hour drive. Its not that people are racist because they say racist things or have racist attitudes, its racism when you vote against or speak out against programs to benefit the poor and minorities. It doesn't matter why you voted against it, simply that you did. I guess I never understood that before. THis is why Harry Reid is not racist, but Trent Lott who really didn't say anything half as racist as what Harry did (he praised a guy at his 100th birthday who ran on a racist platform 50 years ago), is a racist and had to step down. its why Sharpton who said he'd like to "castrate that nigger" (referring to Obama) is not a racist despite using a racist word in a racist fashion. if you support the minority agenda you're not a racist even if you act like one.
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Re: Why don't I trust Fox News? (Part 2)

Postby Ragorn » Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:57 pm

kiryan wrote:The problem with Harry Reid's quote is not that he used the word negro; the word negro is on the census form and has been for some time. It was the implication that light skinned is more favorable than dark skinned

More favorable? Or more popular?

Saying "light skin makes you a better person than dark skin" is racist. Saying "light skin will help him win the election" is not racist, it's a statement that speaks to the racism of others.

Obama has no trace of a negro dialect unless he chooses to express it...

I have no New York accent unless I choose to express it. Is that a racist statement? Or is it only racist because it's a "negro accent?"

If you support the minority agenda you're not a racist even if you act like one.

Heh... "minority agenda." That's more racist than anything Reid said.

But to some extent, even though you were being sarcastic, you're right. If you make a remark about Obama's negro dialect, but you have a long history of supporting legislation which promotes racial equity, then you aren't a racist. Note - racial equity, not the "agenda" of any one race over another. If you promote the agenda of blacks, or latinos, or asians over all other races, then you're a racist, period.

Robert Byrd, racist. Strom Thurmond, racist. Harry Reid? Not.
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Re: Why don't I trust Fox News? (Part 2)

Postby kiryan » Thu Jan 14, 2010 4:52 pm

LOL me saying "minority agenda" is more racist than what Harry Reid said? That Obama was a white washed black person (light skinned no ebonics) so he was a good candidate?

seriously you believe that? I'll give you that Harry was just talking pragmatically about electoral chance and the various influences which obviously do include race, but there are a lot of experts on race (no shparton or jackson) who think that continuing to accept this kind of racist speech is as bad as more overt racist speech and action.
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Re: Why don't I trust Fox News? (Part 2)

Postby Corth » Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:22 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gie-WEj9GDA

Geraldo Rivera and his guests Al Sharpton and Ann Coulter. Does it get ANY better than that?!
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Re: Why don't I trust Fox News? (Part 2)

Postby Ragorn » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:27 pm

Corth wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gie-WEj9GDA

Geraldo Rivera and his guests Al Sharpton and Ann Coulter. Does it get ANY better than that?!

God, I cringe to click that link.

Best Palin nickname at the moment: The Box of Rocks on Fox.
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Re: Why don't I trust Fox News? (Part 2)

Postby Ragorn » Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:19 pm

Rush Limbaugh: Obama will use humanitarian efforts in the wake of the Haiti earthquake to "boost his credentials with the black community."

Racist or not? Discuss.

Bonus quote: "We've already donated to Haiti. It's called the U.S. income tax." Compassionate conservatism at its finest.
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Re: Why don't I trust Fox News? (Part 2)

Postby kiryan » Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:22 pm

Yea i was thinking about posting on this subject. I think Rush had some unfortunate word choice in his efforts to praise the US citizens who are forced to donate for these humanitarian missions. Definitely not racist.

All kidding aside, I don't think Obama is using Haiti to improve his street cred with black people. I think he sees a country devastaed by a quake and is offering support as a good neighbor being they are in our back yard. I think Rush has legitimate things to say about our humanitarian missions and their cost, but I think there is a double standard in that they were largely silent when Bush was giving away billions to other countries directly like for AIDS in Africa. We should have a national dialogue about the billions upon billions we give to humanitarian causes around the world and all we get in return is hate.

Adding on to this, I also not sure how to feel about Pat Robertson's comments. I don't study haiti, but essentially calling them devil worshippers and this as God's judgment (which is not actually an overt action by God, but rather the consequence of sin), seems very bold downright arrogant... but he may be right.

The larger question in my mind here is whether or not they should be saying these things right now. I think they are both being incredibly insensitive and they are both using this to promote their agendas. So in these regards they are no different than Democrats undercutting the troops on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (and vietnam if you want to go that far back with Kerry). However, all sides would say that they are just speaking the truth and that we have legitimate needs to talk about these issues and these events are catalytic in those regards. Both sides would say that the other is being incredibly insensitive to those that are suffering.

I feel that Republicans and Christians are too nice. We let liberals push us around philosophically by arguing that its the good thing to do. We don't take a stand often enough and I'd like to see that change. I don't like that Rush and Robertson are distracting us from the immediacy of helping people, but I do like that they are pointing out things that just don't get talked about enough. I absolutely reject the criticism that they should wait till later per Rahm Emanuel "never let a good crisis go to waste" and per Obama, "this is a teachable moment".

However, I'd say Obama is exhibiting better Christian principles in his handling of this (btw sarvis, Obama is Christian).
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Re: Why don't I trust Fox News? (Part 2)

Postby Corth » Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:46 pm

Ragorn wrote:Bonus quote: "We've already donated to Haiti. It's called the U.S. income tax." Compassionate conservatism at its finest.


Although I did in fact make a personal donation towards relief efforts in Haiti, I have to say that this exact thought occurred to me. Quite a bit of US tax dollars are going towards Haiti.. so in a very real way we all made a donation whether we wanted to or not.
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Re: Why don't I trust Fox News? (Part 2)

Postby Ragorn » Fri Jan 15, 2010 6:49 pm

kiryan wrote:Adding on to this, I also not sure how to feel about Pat Robertson's comments. I don't study haiti, but essentially calling them devil worshippers and this as God's judgment (which is not actually an overt action by God, but rather the consequence of sin), seems very bold downright arrogant... but he may be right.

Pat Robertson's comments...seem very bold downright arrogant... but he may be right.

Pat Robertson may be right.

End thread, I'm done here.
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Re: Why don't I trust Fox News? (Part 2)

Postby kiryan » Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:29 pm

I'm very cautious about saying xyz is God's will or God's judgement ect... Thats my only problem with what Pat said. I do know all the pain, suffering and evil in the world comes from sin. There is obviously a difference between where Pat Robertson is in his studying understanding probably faithfulness to God than where I am and I am not up on the Godliness of Hati.
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Re: Why don't I trust Fox News? (Part 2)

Postby teflor the ranger » Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:30 am

It's not the first time Sarah Palin's been a broadcaster. She had previously worked as a sportscaster for two tv stations and she holds a bachelor's degree from the University of Idaho in communications with a focus on journalism.
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Re: Why don't I trust Fox News? (Part 2)

Postby Callarduran » Sun Jan 17, 2010 4:55 pm

Kiryan, I've waited a few days now to calm down before saying anything. It hasn't helped.

My wife and I lost a friend in the Haiti earthquake. Ben Larson was a senior at Wartburg Theological Seminary, and was in Haiti with his wife and cousin. His wife was working on her Thesis on the ongoing work of the church in Haiti, while he and his cousin were there for a month aiding them. His wife and cousin escaped the collapsing building that they were staying in, while he did not.

You know what? I'm going to stop myself right here. I can't say anymore for fear of going off on a rant against you, that is mostly out of anger and sadness. I will simply leave this link that is an, in my opinion, more appropriate response to Pat's ignorant comments.

http://donmilleris.com/2010/01/13/1513/
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Re: Why don't I trust Fox News? (Part 2)

Postby kiryan » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:24 am

Interesting analysis of controlling people. I learned a couple of things to watch out for since I fit that profile. I do want to say that its hard for me to empathize or sympathize with people when it comes to death, or loss of loved ones. I don't know if its unbelievably selfish or simply completely at peace with it or if I just refuse to feel it because there is nothing to be done. I just a very hard time comprehending the fear, the pain that people go through.

Pat Robertson may be everything that article describes or he may be simply preaching the truth and using this evil catastrophe for good by teaching and shaking people up. I don't know if Pat's doing it for prideful or selfish reasons or whether he is causing his brother to stumble with such uncompassionate action, but God can use a disaster for good whether its 70k people dieing in Haiti or a arrogant prideful controlling pastor from USA. I just don't really feel like its obvious enough one way or the other.

Death is the result of sin and that it seems that any sin in your life puts you at the mercy of the devil. So I think its reasonably likely Pat is speaking truth with as godly of an agenda as a sinful man can have. I don't know if Christ would've done the same thing... I suppose it would depend on whether he still had to teach on that subject or if someone asked him; I don't recall Christ mincing words. I do know that he would show them compassion even if they were among the worst sinners alive. I suspect Pat feels the same way. Hate the sin, love the sinner.

For what its worth, I'll keep you all in my prayers and be comforted by all sounds of it your friend's work on this earth is done and he is waiting upon the lord.
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Re: Why don't I trust Fox News? (Part 2)

Postby Alta » Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:31 pm

Callarduran wrote:Kiryan, I've waited a few days now to calm down before saying anything. It hasn't helped.

My wife and I lost a friend in the Haiti earthquake. Ben Larson was a senior at Wartburg Theological Seminary, and was in Haiti with his wife and cousin. His wife was working on her Thesis on the ongoing work of the church in Haiti, while he and his cousin were there for a month aiding them. His wife and cousin escaped the collapsing building that they were staying in, while he did not.

You know what? I'm going to stop myself right here. I can't say anymore for fear of going off on a rant against you, that is mostly out of anger and sadness. I will simply leave this link that is an, in my opinion, more appropriate response to Pat's ignorant comments.

http://donmilleris.com/2010/01/13/1513/


I like your link Callarduran. Thank you for sharing it. I think this issue must have bothered Kiryan because he came home and talked about it, which he usually doesn't do. Sorry Kiryan is a jerk. I've called him that a few times this morning and he called me at home from work (which by the way, he really only does when I don't make his lunch correctly) to make sure I'm not mad at him. I told him no, I'm just stating the facts. Although according to my sociology class, if I continue to label Kiryan a jerk he will begin to believe he is a jerk and reinforce his jerkiness with more jerky ways. I shall change it. Kiryan is a nice guy. I am sure glad that kiryan-the-nice-guy has these forums to be a jerk on so he can be such a nice guy at home. Thanks all!

FYI, if I should ever no longer be able to make his lunch you must let my replacement know: you must rinse spaghetti noodles for kiryan because if you don't he thinks they are too starchy, he wants them cooked completely because he does not like al dante, warm up the spaghetti sauce and eggs should be completely scrambled, not marbled-(but he wants them marbled when he's eating them with ham, rice and pickles) and place the eggs on top, not mixed into the spaghetti. There Kiryan, you won't starve to death. Oh and if he should call you and you think "oh, maybe he's calling to thank me for making his lunch, having it ready for him and even making the nasty scrambled eggs on top", think again.... you missed a step because you were trying to pull one over on Kiryan and he's so superiorly smart that he's on to your lazy ways! Now go back to caring for his 6 kids and taking 17 credits and how long is this laundry going to sit here? Yikes, I better get back to work.
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Re: Why don't I trust Fox News? (Part 2)

Postby Ragorn » Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:36 am

kiryan wrote:Death is the result of sin

Oh yeah? What did these people do, exactly? Pat declared that this earthquake was the result of choices made generations ago... what happened to judge not the son for the sins of his father?

Don't forget though, this is the same guy who blamed gays for 9/11, so it's pretty clear everything he says is crap.
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Re: Why don't I trust Fox News? (Part 2)

Postby kiryan » Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:46 am

I haven't studied that particular portion of theology enough to really comment, but I have studied it... Its a difficult question... One of the more prominent arguments is that the "sins of the father" is a reference to original sin, Adam's sin... the sin that allowed death into the world. Its conveniently dismissive.

But looking at the broader question, i mean we're all sinners according to scripture... even babies? in the womb? There are in general more verses that say yes, you inherit the sins of the father directly (not counting original sin) and the ones that say no you don't are generally taken out of context to generate an argument. It seems pretty damn unfair, however, if you die before you can be saved there is a guarantee you'll get a chance to receive the gospel backstopping the issue of fairness.

I dunno which is why I'm really cautious on Robertson's statement even though I can see the angle the justification... See thats a hard question sarvis.
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Re: Why don't I trust Fox News? (Part 2)

Postby teflor the ranger » Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:39 pm

It is always controversial to speak about religion particularly when associated or related to suffering or death. Insensitive, even.

Of course, this board is no stranger to controversial topics and insensitive speakers, and I've seen plenty of personal and emotional responses and attacks as topics are brought up that touch our individual lives.

However, I believe that all of the posters (with the exception of one or two) here are genuinely sympathetic to any sadness that touches our lives, no matter what we think about their deservedness or philosophical causes.

I suggest that you see insensitivity in a mostly intellectual discussion as one of an academic nature, and not as a sign that people just don't care.
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Re: Why don't I trust Fox News? (Part 2)

Postby kiryan » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:41 pm

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0110/32039.html

Poll: Fox is most trusted name in news

A Public Policy Polling nationwide survey of 1,151 registered voters Jan. 18-19 found that 49 percent of Americans trusted Fox News, 10 percentage points more than any other network.

Thirty-seven percent said they didn’t trust Fox, also the lowest level of distrust that any of the networks recorded.

... (CNN was in 2nd place btw with like 39% trust and 41% distrust)

Each of the three major networks was trusted by less than 40 percent of those surveyed, with NBC ranking highest at 35 percent. Forty-four percent said they did not trust NBC, which was combined with its sister cable station MSNBC.

Thirty-two percent of respondents said they trusted CBS, while 31 percent trusted ABC. Both CBS and ABC were not trusted by 46 percent of those polled.

The telephone poll has a margin of error of plus or minus 2.8 percentage points.
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Re: Why don't I trust Fox News? (Part 2)

Postby Ragorn » Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:36 pm

I wish "trusted" meant "trustworthy."

Glenn Beck is the second most popular personality on television (after Oprah).... primarily among viewers over the age of 64.
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Re: Why don't I trust Fox News? (Part 2)

Postby kiryan » Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:30 pm

I don't dispute that...

but I'd also point out that some purportedly objective polls seem to indicate that by objective measures of coverage Fox is more consistent and fair. Whether its # of positive vs negative stories or coverage of both points of view (perhaps passing coverage, but coverage none the less) they still are on top. I have yet to see a poll that says CNN or ABC or MSNBC is more "fair" than Fox in subjective or objective terms.
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Re: Why don't I trust Fox News? (Part 2)

Postby Ragorn » Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:39 pm

kiryan wrote:I don't dispute that...

but I'd also point out that some purportedly objective polls seem to indicate that by objective measures of coverage Fox is more consistent and fair. Whether its # of positive vs negative stories or coverage of both points of view (perhaps passing coverage, but coverage none the less) they still are on top. I have yet to see a poll that says CNN or ABC or MSNBC is more "fair" than Fox in subjective or objective terms.

That is because you have yet to see CNN or ABC or MSNBC finance such a poll, like the Fox News poll you posted earlier.
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Re: Why don't I trust Fox News? (Part 2)

Postby kiryan » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:30 pm

I've seen a few different polls on the subject, why don't abc and cbs and cnn run a poll?

Isn't this a valid poll... public policy polling is supposedly at least loosely associated with the democrat party... This is not a fox news poll...

A Public Policy Polling nationwide survey of 1,151 registered voters Jan. 18-19 found that 49 percent of Americans trusted Fox News, 10 percentage points more than any other network.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/01 ... z0dqom46Nx


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Policy_Polling

Public Policy Polling (PPP) is an American, Democratic Party-affiliated polling firm based in Raleigh, North Carolina.[1][2][3] PPP was founded in 2001 by businessman and Democratic pollster Dean Debnam, the firm's current president and chief executive officer.[1][4]

References
^ a b c Kraushaar, Josh (June 23, 2009). "Poll vs. pol: Richard Burr says numbers lie". The Politico (politico.com). http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0609/24062.html. Retrieved November 2, 2009.
^ Goldsmith, Thomas (October 8, 2009). "'Neighborhood schools' issue tapped anger". The News & Observer (newsobserver.com). http://www.newsobserver.com/politics/story/131521.html. Retrieved November 2, 2009.
^ Nowicki, Dan (September 27, 2009). "Arizonans split down the middle on Obama". The Arizona Republic (azcentral.com). http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/ ... i0927.html. Retrieved November 2, 2009.
^ Bracken, David (October 3, 2009). "Pollster turns political". The News & Observer (newsobserver.com). http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/123709.html. Retrieved November 2, 2009.
^ a b Bialik, Carl (November 6, 2009). "Polls Foresaw Future, Which Looks Tough for Polling". The Wall Street Journal (online.wsj.com): pp. A16. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122592455567202805.html. Retrieved November 2, 2009.
^ Coller, Andie (September 28, 2009). "Health care polls leave pols dizzy". The Politico (politico.com). http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0909/27640.html. Retrieved November 2, 2009.

I'm gonna post the rest of the wikipedia article

The company's surveys use Interactive Voice Response (IVR), an automated questionnaire used by other polling firms such as SurveyUSA and Rasmussen Reports.[5] Following the 2008 U.S. presidential election, an analysis by The Wall Street Journal showed PPP's swing-state polling was the second most accurate projection.[5] The neutrality of PPP's surveys has been questioned since the firm's clients are exclusively Democratic-affiliated organizations, and because surveys on health care reform have included polarizing questions such as if respondents think President Barack Obama is the "Antichrist".[1][6]

--

so its a democrat associated poll, but its not accurate? they purportedly engage in push polling from a pro-democrat perspective, but their positive findings on conservative fox news aren't trustworthy? WSJ found them to be the 2nd most accurate poll after the 2008 election, but thats not a good enough testament to their accuracy and legitimacy?
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Re: Why don't I trust Fox News? (Part 2)

Postby Ragorn » Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:10 pm

Oh I completely believe that more people trust Fox News than any other news channel. I do not believe any poll that says Fox News is more trustworthy than CNN or ABC.
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Re: Why don't I trust Fox News? (Part 2)

Postby kiryan » Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:13 pm

ah so this is the classic liberal thinking, you're wrong, we're right cuz you just don't understand everything we do?

society is formed on rules, the rules being basically majority opinions. under this definition aren't democrats basically always wrong?

you may after years of advocacy influence and change societies rules, but up until that point you were wrong.
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Re: Why don't I trust Fox News? (Part 2)

Postby kiryan » Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:56 pm

http://publicpolicypolling.blogspot.com ... trust.html

good liberal explanation of the poll results.

fox news viewers trust fox news because they don't want neutrality.

also delves into the dynamics, basically says libs and conservs trust their preferred news sources at pretty simliarly levels (indicating there are more conservatives than libs in my opinion). CNN is theoretically the least polarizing of the organizations.
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Re: Why don't I trust Fox News? (Part 2)

Postby Botef » Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:50 pm

Who actually takes these polls? Who takes them seriously? I especially wouldn't be enamored by a poll conducted by an "Interactive Voice Response" system, regardless of who the poll ended in favor of, because those are the calls the greater majority of the populace hang up on before they even begin to speak.

Oh and the "antichrist" question thing. I worked for a phone survey company in my youth, and those kind of questions are fairly standard. The last one I ever did was post-9-11. One of the questions was about whether or not you trusted a black man in a turban - quickly followed by would you trust a white man in a turban. Everyone who worked there cringed on the questions like this, and it was explicitly meant to evoke an emotional response being the only question that allowed for a verbatim response to be recorded. The results were usually express outrage at the nature of the question, or total agreement and insensitivity to anyone who wears a turban. As bizarre and irrational of a question it may seem, I suspect they are included to get a more enlightened idea of "who" the respondent is, something that is difficult to convey in questions that end in "do you x, y or z with my last statement".
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Re: Why don't I trust Fox News? (Part 2)

Postby Ragorn » Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:20 pm

kiryan wrote:ah so this is the classic liberal thinking, you're wrong, we're right cuz you just don't understand everything we do?

society is formed on rules, the rules being basically majority opinions. under this definition aren't democrats basically always wrong?

you may after years of advocacy influence and change societies rules, but up until that point you were wrong.

No, I believe that people are easily duped by Fox News's blatant attempts to trick people into think that their editorial content is news. I don't doubt that people trust Fox News to deliver them fair and balanced news content. I believe wholeheartedly that Fox News has more loyal followers than any other news network.

However, I also believe that Fox News is a den of liars and thieves.
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Re: Why don't I trust Fox News? (Part 2)

Postby kiryan » Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:54 pm

and Rush Limbaughtoo right? He's the worst according to the white house.

and Michael Savage too? He enjoys a very healthy audience as a "conservative" talk show despite that he has always been referred to himself as an "independent".
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Re: Why don't I trust Fox News? (Part 2)

Postby Ragorn » Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:34 pm

Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Glenn Beck, and Bill O'Reilly are who I consider to be the worst offenders. I believe these people are deliberate in their methods... they're not simply providing biased or slanted news coverage, they are actively engaging in a campaign of misinformation in order to push a political agena. In case you're curious, I also put Keith Olbermann in this category. He's just as bad, but on the other side.

Michael Savage, I find less offensive. Maybe it's because he's in the news less. Maybe it's because he's less outrageously provocative than Ann Coulter or Glenn Beck, I dunno.

I can tolerate slanted news coverage. I don't begrudge Fox News's actual news segments their conservative perspective. All news coverage has a slant, and I think it's useful to have a wide variety of perspectives to observe. It's the jackasses who make a living off purposely rabble-rousing that I find the most distasteful.
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Re: Why don't I trust Fox News? (Part 2)

Postby teflor the ranger » Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:26 pm

Ragorn wrote:It's the jackasses who make a living off purposely rabble-rousing that I find the most distasteful.

Jealous that they have an easier job?

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