Change?

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teflor the ranger
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Change?

Postby teflor the ranger » Sat Mar 06, 2010 4:05 am

Change their mind?
Change their promises?
Change what they do differently from what they campaigned?

"Obama advisers set to recommend military tribunals for alleged 9/11 plotters"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 05209.html

Mission accomplished, voters.
Todrael
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Re: Change?

Postby Todrael » Sat Mar 06, 2010 2:05 pm

Are you for or against military tribunals, Teflor? Or are you just trying to point out hypocrisy? I'm not sure whether I should agree with you that the Obama administration is doing the wrong thing, or if I should chastise you for doing nothing but bringing up politics in an emotionally charged way even when you agree with the proposed policies or actions...

It shouldn't be blue vs. green on this topic.
teflor the ranger
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Re: Change?

Postby teflor the ranger » Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:13 am

Todrael wrote:Are you for or against military tribunals, Teflor? Or are you just trying to point out hypocrisy? I'm not sure whether I should agree with you that the Obama administration is doing the wrong thing, or if I should chastise you for doing nothing but bringing up politics in an emotionally charged way even when you agree with the proposed policies or actions...

It shouldn't be blue vs. green on this topic.

Todrael,

First and foremost, I would like to point out that adults are responsible for their own emotions, particularly when what is affecting their emotions is not leveled at them personally or particularly offensive given the circumstances (in either case, they are still responsible).

In truth, I have mixed views on the military tribunals. I would prefer that anyone subject to the judgement and potential punishment of our government have their rights preserved, including a right to a trial by their peers. This is an interesting case because enemy combatants that operate outside the boundaries of international law probably deserve a jury of their peers - American mercenaries and unaffiliated intelligence community funded and directed black-ops groups operating outside of the United States being their closest peers here - determine their fate as prescribed by law. That fate, of course, allowing for any number of things including being shot and left to bleed out slowly on a hot rock somewhere. Or hanging. A slow hanging. Yes, our nation along with many, many others (if not all of them) do this to people all the time because peace is something that must be enforced.

So you see, the question of military tribunals is really more procedural or policy, rather than moral or political. It's also the kind of question without fast and hard answers - really more of a comparison of pros and cons and a general consensus on what's best for the nation.

Still, something has to be said about this administration. Having made too many promises and invested too much in criticism, fearmongering, and hate for half of America, it's ironic that they're unable to find another way to do the things that have to be done. Patriot act. Check. Military Tribunals. Check. Guantanamo Bay. Check. Iraq. Check. Afghanistan. Check.

So, where is all the criticism now? Can people finally admit that they were wrong to be so vocal and obnoxious? Of course not. It's hard to love liberty. All power in the world stands opposed to it.
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Re: Change?

Postby Todrael » Sun Mar 07, 2010 12:19 pm

teflor the ranger wrote:So, where is all the criticism now? Can people finally admit that they were wrong to be so vocal and obnoxious? Of course not. It's hard to love liberty. All power in the world stands opposed to it.

I was nodding my head, generally ready to shrug my shoulders and say, "OK," to everything you had typed right up until your last paragraph. Why go and spoil it like that?
teflor the ranger
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Re: Change?

Postby teflor the ranger » Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:37 pm

Todrael wrote:
teflor the ranger wrote:So, where is all the criticism now? Can people finally admit that they were wrong to be so vocal and obnoxious? Of course not. It's hard to love liberty. All power in the world stands opposed to it.

I was nodding my head, generally ready to shrug my shoulders and say, "OK," to everything you had typed right up until your last paragraph. Why go and spoil it like that?

That you agreed with any part of my post, or gained anything intellectually or otherwise with what I wrote, makes me very happy.

That you disagree with my sentiments, voiced your own opinion (in a non-repetitive, intellectually supported manner), or acknowledge that your emotions affect your decision making processes, intellectual leanings, and general views ALSO makes me very happy.

In such a spirit, I too must admit that after years of the Bush administration, I am also tired and frustrated - by the blind, rabid detractors of the administration. It'll probably take some time for me to stop naturally criticizing them or berating them at every chance I get.

My hope is that we can take away a lesson from seeing valid, easy criticism happen so harshly against two well supported, powerful administrations with two very different philosophies (? maybe).

That being the leader of the world is hard, and bastard lying asshole politicians sometimes need our support. Furthermore, that criticism should be well founded and leveled with the intent of positive benefit, not positive polls.

It is clear to me that the Obama administration, like the Bush administration is learning as they go. They both end up circling back to unpopular decisions. If one partisan American hatemonger can finaly see that (doesn't matter which side they are 'on') then mission accomplished.
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Re: Change?

Postby Disoputlip » Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:52 pm

I think there is a little bit of change to see in the advise.

GWB advisors would say: Keep them indefinitly in a territory with a grey legal status, so you never have to procecute them.

BO advisors suggest a military tribunal.

There is no doubt that no matter what BO will do, then he will get bashed for it. But to say that the advisors are the same is plain wrong.

I am unsure what stories are true, but here is a link to one of the wierd stories about GWB advisors:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.inf ... e11488.htm

Obama would never listen to a person like this I think.
teflor the ranger
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Re: Change?

Postby teflor the ranger » Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:00 am

Disoputlip wrote:I think there is a little bit of change to see in the advise.

GWB advisors would say: Keep them indefinitly in a territory with a grey legal status, so you never have to procecute them.

BO advisors suggest a military tribunal.

There is no doubt that no matter what BO will do, then he will get bashed for it. But to say that the advisors are the same is plain wrong.

I am unsure what stories are true, but here is a link to one of the wierd stories about GWB advisors:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.inf ... e11488.htm

Obama would never listen to a person like this I think.

To correct you, the previous US administration initiated military tribunals for Guantanamo detainees, which was strongly criticized by the left in the US at the time.
Corth
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Re: Change?

Postby Corth » Thu Mar 18, 2010 3:19 am

http://www.breitbart.tv/puzzling-statem ... in-hawaii/

If GWB said this we would never hear the end of it. Ever.
avak
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Re: Change?

Postby avak » Thu Mar 18, 2010 3:47 am

I don't understand....

The President today declared a major disaster exists in the State of Hawaii and ordered Federal aid to supplement State and local recovery efforts in the area struck by an earthquake that occurred on October 15, 2006, and related aftershocks.


Where is the issue?
Corth
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Re: Change?

Postby Corth » Thu Mar 18, 2010 4:52 am

If he is going to go looking for natural disasters that occurred before he even took office in order to justify the "Lousiana Purchase", why use an inconsequential Hawaii earthquake? Why not refer to Hurricane Katrina or something, which effected not just Lousiana but also Mississippi and Alabama. If that is the best he can do to justify the 'louisiana purchase' then consider it unjustified. It's quite obvious that he misspoke.
Corth
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Re: Change?

Postby Corth » Thu Mar 18, 2010 4:53 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUd-slJc ... _embedded#

Enjoy your 3,000 percent reduction in costs employers!! heheh. Whatever GWB had must be contagious!
Corth
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Re: Change?

Postby Corth » Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:39 pm

Dem congressman explaining exactly why you need to take power away from politicians.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ ... aling.html

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