Bush on Al Qaeda and Iraq

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teflor the ranger
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Bush on Al Qaeda and Iraq

Postby teflor the ranger » Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:25 pm

I know many of you were vocal critics of the last administration and opponents of our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. I'm wondering if any one of you could point to a statement by President Bush about a direct relationship between Al Qaeda and Iraq, or one between Saddam and Bin Laden.
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Re: Bush on Al Qaeda and Iraq

Postby Todrael » Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:07 pm

What does that have to do with anything?
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Re: Bush on Al Qaeda and Iraq

Postby Sarvis » Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:33 pm

Retarded monkeys post pointless political threads about Bush on some web forums.
Teflor the Ranger posts pointless political threads about Bush on this web forum.
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Re: Bush on Al Qaeda and Iraq

Postby teflor the ranger » Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:11 pm

I'm looking for information that I'm having difficulty locating myself. What does it look like to you?
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Re: Bush on Al Qaeda and Iraq

Postby Todrael » Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:50 am

I believe it was generally implied rather than explicitly stated, with techniques such as using them in the same sentence (heh), and only once or twice by Bush himself. Cheney might have been worse. I'm not sure which media source would have contributed most to the confusion, but it seems more than 40 percent of Americans believe Saddam's regime had direct involvement in 9/11 (2007, up 5 percent from 2004, can't find more recent numbers offhand).

I recall seeing a documentary or other show where they put together clips of what Bush really said, and how it was implied. Maybe in the BBC's the Power of Nightmares.

It looks like Wikipedia's all over it, with timelines and everything...
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Re: Bush on Al Qaeda and Iraq

Postby avak » Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:48 am

Oh, for fok's sake...

How hard is it? Try: bush al qaeda iraq and check the first fn link.

OMFG. seriously.

"The reason I keep insisting that there was a relationship between Iraq and Saddam and al Qaeda: because there was a relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda," Bush said after a Cabinet meeting.
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Re: Bush on Al Qaeda and Iraq

Postby teflor the ranger » Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:21 pm

Bush reiterated that the administration never said that "the 9/11 attacks were orchestrated" between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda. "We did say there were numerous contacts between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda," he said.

I found the 2004 CNN article based on Avak's post. The above appeared in there as well.

Could anyone please provide something more conclusive about whether or not Bush lied about the links between Al Qaeda and Iraq? There were clearly contacts between Al Qaeda and Iraq.
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Re: Bush on Al Qaeda and Iraq

Postby Sarvis » Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:28 pm

Searching for 6 year old news on the internet is always so easy!

Hey Teffie? Here's a thought: We covered all of this pretty damn exhaustively at the time. Go back and look at the posts of everyone who's now ignored you, and I bet somewhere you'll find the evidence you seek.

Not that you'll pay any more attention to it now than you did then.
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Re: Bush on Al Qaeda and Iraq

Postby teflor the ranger » Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:11 pm

No, you haven't covered anything exhaustively. You haven't produced any conclusive evidence that Bush ever claimed that Iraq was responsible for 9/11, or that there were direct ties between Al Qaeda and Iraq. The only evidence I've seen produced by anyone here and most of the internet is that Bush claimed there was a relationship in which Al Qaeda was communicating with Iraq.

I'm pretty sure that the lie is about what Bush didn't claim. So far, no one here has been able to prove me wrong. All it takes is one quote from any Bush speech, interview, or document from the president stating plainly that Iraq has any significant responsibility for the attacks on 9/11.

You can't produce one. The CLOSEST any of you have been able to get is that Bush said that there was a relationship between Al Qaeda and Iraq (which does, indeed answer my original inquiry). You know who has a relationship with both of them? We do. What a joke. It is a far cry from the claimed 'lie' that Bush claimed that Iraq was responsible for 9/11 or that there were direct ties between Iraq and Al Qaeda.

Liberals lied, honesty died. "President Bush on Thursday said that there were "numerous contacts" between Iraq and the terror network." Oh yeah, such a liar.
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Re: Bush on Al Qaeda and Iraq

Postby Sarvis » Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:23 pm

Retarded monkeys post pointless political threads about Bush on some web forums.
Teflor the Ranger posts pointless political threads about Bush on this web forum.

But no, I'm not calling YOU a retarded monkey Teffie! You can provide no evidence that I am!
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Re: Bush on Al Qaeda and Iraq

Postby teflor the ranger » Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:31 pm

I don't have to, it's pretty clear that you're simply being a jackass. I posted with the simple hope of someone vindicating the liberal lie. It's not my fault that no one here was able to.
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Re: Bush on Al Qaeda and Iraq

Postby Corth » Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:34 pm

Just anectdotal evidence I suppose. My recollection was that the war against Iraq was justified at the time by the concern that SH was developing or had developed WMD's and after what happened on 9/11 it was not acceptable to the US anymore to allow a known enemy like SH to possess these items. It was a 'preemptive war' meant to shut down SH. I don't recall any link that was made or attempted to be made between SH and Al Quaeda.
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Re: Bush on Al Qaeda and Iraq

Postby teflor the ranger » Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:42 pm

I had the same impression that Corth had at the time as well. I was convinced that WMD were gone, sold to North Korea (on my own, not by any administration's presumption or public announcement), but that the threat of a severe desire to obtain them was just as severe an issue, particularly for previous users of WMD (or did you forget?).

Image

So, can anyone here vindicate the liberal lie? Or can we all just remember that the Iraqi regime was a previous user of WMD on both foreign countries and on their own people?
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Re: Bush on Al Qaeda and Iraq

Postby Sarvis » Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:03 pm

Corth wrote:Just anectdotal evidence I suppose. My recollection was that the war against Iraq was justified at the time by the concern that SH was developing or had developed WMD's and after what happened on 9/11 it was not acceptable to the US anymore to allow a known enemy like SH to possess these items. It was a 'preemptive war' meant to shut down SH. I don't recall any link that was made or attempted to be made between SH and Al Quaeda.



I remember linking to some speech of Bush's, maybe SoTU adress, where people counted the number of times Bush used Al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein in the same sentence, and it came out to a LOT. He may never have said Saddam conspired with Al Qaeda on 9/11, but he certainly used a carefully crafted speech to psychologically link the two together.

If I were a psychologist or linguistics person, or maybe even advertising person, I'd probably know a technical term for doing that.

It's funny how you guys are talking about Bush's claims of WMD in Iraq, because the reality is that argument came up once too and I couldn't find a speech where Bush said there were WMD in Iraq. There just wasn't one. There were, however, speeches and interviews where Bush would talk about WMD and Iraq in the same sentence. Again placing them together without actually stating a relationship, relying on our brains to fill in the gap.

Teflor is obfuscating the issue, and retarded monkeys live in his local zoo.
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Re: Bush on Al Qaeda and Iraq

Postby Corth » Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:35 pm

I remember Colin Powell going before the UN with a whole load of evidence that SH was harboring WMD's, as a way to try and convince the Security Counsel to approve the invasion. I think it was pretty explicit that the administration was arguing there were WMD's in Iraq.
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Re: Bush on Al Qaeda and Iraq

Postby Sarvis » Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:25 pm

But not Bush...
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Re: Bush on Al Qaeda and Iraq

Postby avak » Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:47 pm

What a pathetic way to start an argument. Big surprise though.

"point to a statement by President Bush about a direct relationship between Al Qaeda and Iraq"

"The reason I keep insisting that there was a relationship between Iraq and Saddam and al Qaeda: because there was a relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda," Bush said after a Cabinet meeting.

The beauty of this thread is that it really sums up how teflor "argues."
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Re: Bush on Al Qaeda and Iraq

Postby avak » Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:32 pm

Hey Teflor, why don't you produce some conclusive evidence of this "liberal lie."

What is the lie?

Where are the sources?

I want to see who you can dig up that articulated this lie.
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Re: Bush on Al Qaeda and Iraq

Postby Corth » Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:35 pm

Avak's Article wrote:Bush, in a brief appearance before reporters, was asked why the administration insists that Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda had a relationship "when even you have denied any connection between Saddam and September 11, and now the September 11 commission says that there was no collaborative relationship at all?"

The president answered:"The reason I keep insisting that there was a relationship between Iraq and Saddam and al Qaeda, because there was a relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda."

Bush reiterated that the administration never said that "the 9/11 attacks were orchestrated" between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda. "We did say there were numerous contacts between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda,"


http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/06/17/Bush.alqaeda/

Teflor wrote:Bush reiterated that the administration never said that "the 9/11 attacks were orchestrated" between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda. "We did say there were numerous contacts between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda," he said.

I found the 2004 CNN article based on Avak's post. The above appeared in there as well.

Could anyone please provide something more conclusive about whether or not Bush lied about the links between Al Qaeda and Iraq? There were clearly contacts between Al Qaeda and Iraq.


Teflor is trying to make a point that the Bush administration never blamed 9/11 upon Iraq. I'm not sure why he is trying to make that point now, as it's old news, but there hasn't been anything to contradict that point, for what it's worth.
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Re: Bush on Al Qaeda and Iraq

Postby avak » Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:53 pm

He's trying to make that point after the fact. Notice that "9/11" isn't even in the original post.

Classic bait and switch arguing...

And again, who is perpetuating the opposing claim of Bush blaming 9/11 on Iraq and Saddam?

This is just the only way Teflor can get attention. Case in point, The American Life
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Re: Bush on Al Qaeda and Iraq

Postby Sarvis » Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:17 am

Corth wrote:Teflor is trying to make a point that the Bush administration never blamed 9/11 upon Iraq. I'm not sure why he is trying to make that point now, as it's old news, but there hasn't been anything to contradict that point, for what it's worth.


Of course, you may notice I never said Bush blamed 9/11 on Iraq either. He just associated the two concepts together by speaking of them at the same time.
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Re: Bush on Al Qaeda and Iraq

Postby Corth » Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:36 am

There is no doubt that they were associated. He used 9/11 as a justification for broader military action in the middle east. Not that Iraq was blamed in any way for 9/11. But that we weren't going to allow countries in that region to produce WMD's and potentially use them against us or sell them to our enemies.
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Re: Bush on Al Qaeda and Iraq

Postby Sarvis » Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:51 am

Corth wrote:There is no doubt that they were associated. He used 9/11 as a justification for broader military action in the middle east. Not that Iraq was blamed in any way for 9/11. But that we weren't going to allow countries in that region to produce WMD's and potentially use them against us or sell them to our enemies.


Yes, and that would have been a tough sell if people didn't believe Iraq was somehow involved in 9/11.

"Wait, what? We're taking resources away from searching for Osama to attack Iraq?"
"blah blah blah 9/11, blah blah blah Saddam"
"Oh, so Saddam was behind 9/11 all along!"

Come on Corth, this can't be hard for you to understand. There were all kinds of polls at the time showing most people believed Saddam had planned 9/11, because of these kinds of word games.
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Re: Bush on Al Qaeda and Iraq

Postby Corth » Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:13 am

Not sure why we are arguing over this.. I doubt you can find any poll showing people believed SH planned 9/11. Everyone knew exactly who was responsible for 9/11 and it was some other Arab nutsack. The basis for Iraq, right or wrong, was always primarily the concern that the WMD's produced by them could be used against us, either by Iraq or another enemy who purchased them from Iraq.

I also believe there was a hidden motivation. GWB believed that he could turn Iraq into an oasis of freedom and democracy in the wasteland of corrupt monarchies and dictatorships we call the middle east. That was really the main reason why I supported the Iraq war.. and in retrospect it was horribly naive and utopian to believe that we could impose our values on those people and turn them into us.
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Re: Bush on Al Qaeda and Iraq

Postby Sarvis » Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:11 pm

Corth wrote:Not sure why we are arguing over this.. I doubt you can find any poll showing people believed SH planned 9/11.


"Nearly seven in 10 Americans believe it is likely that ousted Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein was personally involved in the Sept. 11 attacks, says a poll out almost two years after the terrorists' strike against this country." - http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington ... iraq_x.htm

I also believe there was a hidden motivation. GWB believed that he could turn Iraq into an oasis of freedom and democracy in the wasteland of corrupt monarchies and dictatorships we call the middle east. That was really the main reason why I supported the Iraq war.. and in retrospect it was horribly naive and utopian to believe that we could impose our values on those people and turn them into us.


Of course there was hidden motivation, but I doubt Bush's was anything like that. It's far more likely that he hoped to use Iraq as a base for other operations in the middle east, or at least as a base for troops if we did end up going to war against Iran. The latter being a very optimistic possibility, considering Cheney's involvement in an organization (PNAC) that wanted to start empire building in the Middle East.
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Re: Bush on Al Qaeda and Iraq

Postby Corth » Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:33 pm

Yeah I agree with that theory that he wanted to use Iraq as a middle east base of operations for further wars. But I think that was only one of several goals. The others being a goal of getting rid of WMD's (which turned out to be non-existent despite a sincere belief on the part of GWB that they were there), and second, the goal of turning Iraq into a western style democracy as an example to the rest of the islamofacist world.

As for the poll - I'm surprised by it. But credit where it's due. I think it definitely supports your position that the administration was suggesting a direct link without perhaps explicitly claiming one.
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Re: Bush on Al Qaeda and Iraq

Postby Sarvis » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:10 pm

Corth wrote:a sincere belief on the part of GWB that they were there), and second, the goal of turning Iraq into a western style democracy as an example to the rest of the islamofacist world.


There you go having faith in humanity again...
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Re: Bush on Al Qaeda and Iraq

Postby Corth » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:38 pm

It gets me laid.
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Re: Bush on Al Qaeda and Iraq

Postby Sarvis » Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:10 pm

Low blow, Corth.
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Re: Bush on Al Qaeda and Iraq

Postby Corth » Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:30 pm

Heheh, sorry. But.. yeah. :)
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Re: Bush on Al Qaeda and Iraq

Postby teflor the ranger » Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:48 pm

avak wrote:Hey Teflor, why don't you produce some conclusive evidence of this "liberal lie."

What is the lie?

Where are the sources?

I want to see who you can dig up that articulated this lie.

The lie I'm speaking about is when people claim that Bush lied about the ties between 9/11 and Iraq. I wanted to make sure that Bush did in fact make no direct ties between 9/11 and Iraq. I know he stated that there is a relationship between al qaeda and Iraq, which seems to have been substantiated by evidence, but I find nowhere that Bush ever tried to sell the 9/11 Iraq link.

That's the lie I'm talking about. Corth sums it up here: viewtopic.php?p=208828#p208828
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Re: Bush on Al Qaeda and Iraq

Postby teflor the ranger » Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:51 pm

avak wrote:What a pathetic way to start an argument. Big surprise though.

"point to a statement by President Bush about a direct relationship between Al Qaeda and Iraq"

"The reason I keep insisting that there was a relationship between Iraq and Saddam and al Qaeda: because there was a relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda," Bush said after a Cabinet meeting.

The beauty of this thread is that it really sums up how teflor "argues."

It's not an argument, that is exactly what I was looking for.

The best you can do is to say that Bush said that there was 'a relationship' between Iraq and al Qaeda, a statement he made to his cabinet, not to the public (never you mind the fact that it was true). It's clearly a statement that was not made to sell the public on the belief that Iraq was responsible in any way for 9/11.

I thank you for answering my question, and in doing so, proving my actual point. The lie was a lie.

Thanks,

Tef
Last edited by teflor the ranger on Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bush on Al Qaeda and Iraq

Postby teflor the ranger » Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:53 pm

Corth wrote:Teflor is trying to make a point that the Bush administration never blamed 9/11 upon Iraq. I'm not sure why he is trying to make that point now, as it's old news, but there hasn't been anything to contradict that point, for what it's worth.

The reason why I'm bringing it up is this: someone tried to sell me on this lie yet again, it seems like it's a pretty pervasive belief among the left leaning that Bush sold the public on direct ties between Saddam Hussein and 9/11.

I looked to see if there was any instances of Bush selling this idea to the public - and I was not able to find any. Knowing that there are a lot of argumentative liberals here on this forum, I asked if they had any.

They did not.

I can safely conclude that 'the lie' is a lie.
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Re: Bush on Al Qaeda and Iraq

Postby Sarvis » Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:09 pm

Avak, we both realize Teflor is just posting for the attention and we should ignore him so he goes away. In an unrelated note, did you realize that retarded monkeys are often HUGE attention whores?
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Re: Bush on Al Qaeda and Iraq

Postby Botef » Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:17 pm

U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell Addresses the U.N. Security Council
February 5, 2003
http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives. ... 205-1.html

But what I want to bring to your attention today is the potentially much more sinister nexus between Iraq and the Al Qaida terrorist network, a nexus that combines classic terrorist organizations and modern methods of murder. Iraq today harbors a deadly terrorist network headed by Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi, an associated in collaborator of Osama bin Laden and his Al Qaida lieutenants.

Zarqawi, a Palestinian born in Jordan, fought in the Afghan war more than a decade ago. Returning to Afghanistan in 2000, he oversaw a terrorist training camp. One of his specialities and one of the specialties of this camp is poisons. When our coalition ousted the Taliban, the Zarqaqi network helped establish another poison and explosive training center camp. And this camp is located in northeastern Iraq.
Colin Powell slide 39
Slide 39

POWELL: You see a picture of this camp.

The network is teaching its operatives how to produce ricin and other poisons. Let me remind you how ricin works. Less than a pinch--image a pinch of salt--less than a pinch of ricin, eating just this amount in your food, would cause shock followed by circulatory failure. Death comes within 72 hours and there is no antidote, there is no cure. It is fatal.
Colin Powell slide 40
Slide 40

Those helping to run this camp are Zarqawi lieutenants operating in northern Kurdish areas outside Saddam Hussein's controlled Iraq. But Baghdad has an agent in the most senior levels of the radical organization, Ansar al-Islam, that controls this corner of Iraq. In 2000 this agent offered Al Qaida safe haven in the region. After we swept Al Qaida from Afghanistan, some of its members accepted this safe haven. They remain their today.
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Re: Bush on Al Qaeda and Iraq

Postby avak » Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:09 pm

teflor the ranger wrote:
avak wrote:"point to a statement by President Bush about a direct relationship between Al Qaeda and Iraq"

"The reason I keep insisting that there was a relationship between Iraq and Saddam and al Qaeda: because there was a relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda," Bush said after a Cabinet meeting.

It's not an argument, that is exactly what I was looking for.

The best you can do is to say that Bush said that there was 'a relationship' between Iraq and al Qaeda, a statement he made to his cabinet, not to the public (never you mind the fact that it was true). It's clearly a statement that was not made to sell the public on the belief that Iraq was responsible in any way for 9/11.
Tef

You are such a twit. You asked for a statement by the Bush admin indicating there was a relationship between Iraq and al qaeda....not anything about 9/11. I suppose you want to argue the nature of "direct relationship"?

Again, point to someone of liberal persuasion (and of consequence...even a blogger) perpetrating this 'liberal lie.' Use your god-like google skills to show us this vast left-wing conspiracy. All you have so far is your typical ambiguous hyperbole and Corth 'summing it up.'

You are sitting here in this thread demanding sources for something no one even claims exists and simultaneously failing to provide sources for your own grand indictments. You suck.
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Re: Bush on Al Qaeda and Iraq

Postby avak » Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:17 pm

Seriously...I am in awe of your level of denial to logic.

Logic-Teflon says: "point to a statement by President Bush about a direct relationship between Al Qaeda and Iraq"

Bush says: "The reason I keep insisting that there was a relationship between Iraq and Saddam and al Qaeda: because there was a relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda,"

Legic-Teflon says: "The best you can do is to say that Bush said that there was 'a relationship' between Iraq and al Qaeda, a statement he made to his cabinet"

just to add to the complete dismantling of facts...I like how you claim he made that statement to his cabinet. He made it after a cabinet meeting, to the press corp....close though!
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Re: Bush on Al Qaeda and Iraq

Postby Todrael » Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:04 am

When Teflor started this thread, I was pretty sure that's what he was doing. I'd like to suggest that if he has a problem with a single person presenting an argument to him, he shouldn't take it out on everyone else by driveling all over the place.

I will say, the interesting thing I noticed when reading about the topic is that Bush and other members of the administration may have made significantly more direct statements about Iraq, Saddam, and 9/11 links to other heads of state, such a Tony Blair, which were never recorded or given to the public. I would assign this a probability higher than 50 percent.
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Re: Bush on Al Qaeda and Iraq

Postby teflor the ranger » Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:37 pm

I find it ironic, Avak, that all you can do is complain about how I used the audience here to prove my true point: that the lie is a lie.

My advice: get over yourself. You gave me what I asked for only because you believed that you would be doing this fantastic thing of putting teflor the ranger down, feeling like you lorded over him and won a fight because you dislike me.

For those intentions, I say, good luck, but it's not going to happen - also, you should be suspect about what your aims are if that's what you're going for.

My intention was purely to try to find exactly what Bush said about Iraq and 9/11 in order to lay bare that when people say that Bush lied about the relationship between 9/11 and Iraq, that it is indeed a lie itself. With your help, I think we can agree that Bush never explicitly stated to, at, or around the public that Iraq was behind 9/11. Most of us will agree that it's not even implicit. At the very most, Bush stated to his cabinet that there is a relationship between Al Qaeda and Iraq, a truth that bore out through validated intelligence from several nations. Thanks goes out to you all for your research efforts.
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Re: Bush on Al Qaeda and Iraq

Postby Todrael » Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:43 pm

Where are the WMD?
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Re: Bush on Al Qaeda and Iraq

Postby avak » Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:45 pm

teflor the ranger wrote:My intention was purely to try to find exactly what Bush said about Iraq and 9/11 in order to lay bare that when people say that Bush lied about the relationship between 9/11 and Iraq, that it is indeed a lie itself.

You really need to think about taking a class in basic sentence construction.

Where are these people that say Bush lied? Where is the liberal lie??

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