Liberal media crops out knife held by "peace activist"

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kiryan
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Liberal media crops out knife held by "peace activist"

Postby kiryan » Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:46 pm

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/06/08 ... commandos/

Picture of an Israeli soldier on the deck of the ship where 9 "peace activisits" were shot dead. He is bleeding from an apparent knife wound surrounded by "peace activists" one of which is holding a knife.

By mistake, Reuters cropped out the knife when they ran the story. Quick search on google shows no one else is bothering with the story. I guess this isn't the kind of truth liberals are looking for.
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Re: Liberal media crops out knife held by "peace activist"

Postby teflor the ranger » Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:55 pm

So, I guess now the question is if the Jews actually control the media?

If they do, are they doing it wrong?
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Re: Liberal media crops out knife held by "peace activist"

Postby Corth » Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:41 pm

Israel's problem here is that they aren't drawing a line in the sand. They try and blame the incident on the activists having weapons and attacking them, etc. It's described as a botched intervention.. an unfortunate incident.

If peacefully blockading a port is the objective, then sure, it was botched and unfortunate. The problem though is that a blockade is an act of war. It is by definition a violent act. By paying lip service to the UN about trying not to commit violence, while trying to carry out an inherently violent act, they are sending mixed messages to their own soldiers, the activists attempting to break the blockade, and the world at large. This is where they are failing from a PR perspective.

Israel has its reasons for the blockade, and there is plenty of room for argument over whether the blockade is justified. BUT, assuming they decide to continue the blockade, they should be VERY clear about the ramifications for entering the restricted zone. It should mean IMMEDIATE destruction of any unauthorized ships, and death to any occupants thereof. Period. That is a very clear message. No surprises whatsoever.

Iran and Turkey along with the useful idiots that they are using as lambs to the slaughter for the Israeli Defense Force need to be be explicitly warned that there won't be any peaceful interventions. It will be full on military onslaught. But even more than making Iran, Turkey and the useful idiots aware, the important part is making the world aware. That way, when these state sponsored activists enter the restricted zone and are immediately slaughtered, it is clear to the world that the people who were slaughtered knew EXACTLY what they were getting into.
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Re: Liberal media crops out knife held by "peace activist"

Postby Pril » Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:02 am

Corth,

This assumes that the world STILL won't try to hold Israel responsible for those deaths. The blockade in and of itself is not an act of war as I see it since they are still allowing all humanitarian supplies in, they are just attempting to limit the amount of munitions that are brought in to be fired at Israel. To me an act of war would be having a blockade which allows nothing through.
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Re: Liberal media crops out knife held by "peace activist"

Postby Corth » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:21 am

from Wikipedia:

A blockade is defined by the Encyclopedia Britannica as "an act of war by which a belligerent prevents access to or departure from a defined part of the enemy’s coasts."

-----------

My own take on it is that by using coercive force to limit the comings and goings of vessels into a foreign port, you are a priori involved in a war against the country you are blockading. Certainly the reason for the blockade is to keep munitions out of Gaza, not to keep out food and medicine. But that is irrelevent. A sovereign country is entitled to import munitions. Imagine Mexico, for instance, were to blockade the port of Manhattan and only allow food and medicine in. That would of course never be allowed, even if the Navy were sent to sink the Mexican armada. So even if the goal is merely to keep out articles of warfare, the blockade itself is an act of war.

And if you are going to be using coercive force to blockade a foreign port - again an act of warfare - then mixed messages about your intent will only serve to cause confusion and allow enemies to manipulate you. That is why Israel needs to call a spade a spade. They are blockading Gaza because they consider the government, Hamas, to be a terrorist organization that is attempting to obtain munitions to kill Israeli civilians. They have taken military action to take over control of who enters and exits Gaza. Anyone that enters without authorization should be met with overwhelming force - and more importantly, the Israeli government should be very explicit about such consequences. If I were in charge of Israel I would buy a full page advertisement in every single major world newspaper that says nothing but the following in huge block print: "ANY SHIPS OR PEOPLE THAT ATTEMPT TO BYPASS THE ISRAELI BLOCKADE OF GAZA SHALL BE IMMEDIATELY ATTACKED BY THE FULL FORCE OF THE ISRAELI ARMY" Nice and simple.

As for whether the rest of the world still holds Israeli responsible for subequent deaths.. Well, first off I believe there would be no more deaths. Not as many people are willing to die for their beliefs as we might think. I doubt many of these activists feel they are going on a suicide mission when they confront the Israeli military in Gaza. It certainly becomes a suicide mission once Israel makes such an annoucement. Second, I don't think Israel can really afford to care very much about what the rest of the world thinks. The Danes and the Turks don't have a neighboring state sponsoring missile attacks upon their civillians. If I'm Israel I tell them to go fuck themselves if they don't like the way they handle such a situation.
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Re: Liberal media crops out knife held by "peace activist"

Postby kiryan » Wed Jun 09, 2010 3:38 am

Israel is certainly in a pickle. The world and Israel both try and pretend they aren't at war with palestinians, but between Palestine being an occupied territory and the blockade, its hard to say otherwise. Israel certainly can't go in and kill all the palestinans, that would be Genocide, but they also can't go in and topple the government and get any kind of change either. How do you deal with a nation where 90% of the people want to kill you. The next government will try and kill you and the next and the next. Your only long term option is genocide which is an international crime.

While I can agree with the sentiment that once warned, taking said action is justified, on the other hand, it is a bit unreasonable to blow up a flotilla of civilian activists even if some of them are a little seedy and they were duly informed. Take for example what Russia did in Georgia... Russia I think was probably pretty clear that it would respond if South Osseteria was attacked, but the they went way overboard in "defending" South Ossteria pushing deep into Georgia and basically dismantling the countries military and civilian infrastructure... Georgia certainly "deserved" what they got by provoking Russia, but I don't think many approved of Russia's response.

Right or wrong, no respectable country in the world can exercise disproportionate force when it results in massive civilian casualities or when its not stopping a clear and immediate threat to life. Its not like Israel starts from a very positive position to begin with considering over half of UN resolutions are about and condemn Israel (not the big resolutions we hear about, but the stupid ones coming out of random committees).
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Re: Liberal media crops out knife held by "peace activist"

Postby Botef » Wed Jun 09, 2010 3:48 am

Interesting article about the lead up to this incident.

http://dailynewscorner.com/israels-flot ... tage/1716/

You also may or may not have heard but Iran is now sending aid ships and a naval hospital vessel to Gaza, though they plan to port and bring the aid through the re-opened Rafah border crossing with Eygpt. The Revolutionary Guard has also offered to escort future flotilla's that attempt to break the blockade. Quite the tinderbox.
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Re: Liberal media crops out knife held by "peace activist"

Postby teflor the ranger » Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:34 pm

The blockade is legitimate so long as Hamas declares itself the enemy of Israel.

Israel should allow refugees to escape the gaza strip, however.
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Re: Liberal media crops out knife held by "peace activist"

Postby Corth » Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:48 pm

Botef wrote:Interesting article about the lead up to this incident.

http://dailynewscorner.com/israels-flot ... tage/1716/

You also may or may not have heard but Iran is now sending aid ships and a naval hospital vessel to Gaza, though they plan to port and bring the aid through the re-opened Rafah border crossing with Eygpt. The Revolutionary Guard has also offered to escort future flotilla's that attempt to break the blockade. Quite the tinderbox.


Turkey was also talking about accompanying future aid convoys.

All the more reason Israel has to be very public and explicit now. Because there is no way they are going to allow the blockade to be undermined. This time it will be food and medicine. Next time it will be missiles. So if Iran or Turkey millitary come, we are talking about war. It should be no surprise to anyone - Israel has to make that clear. So at least they won't be accused of taking the actual step that starts the war.
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Re: Liberal media crops out knife held by "peace activist"

Postby kiryan » Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:35 pm

Iran doesn't do anything unless it helps itself or causes problems for the USA, but yes quite an escalation. Israel has no choice but to back down or start the war that will force the rest of the world to pick a side.

teflor wrote:Israel should allow refugees to escape the gaza strip, however.


No one wants the palestinians. Lebananon already runs a refugee camp and they have shown they don't want any more, Egypt doesn't want any refugees nor their political extremistism. Its the middle east's dirty little secret. The Arab nations who support them in name don't want them as neighbors or living in their countries. If Gaza were to get everything they want, the miscreants would migrate to the next social battlefield and try and take over.
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Re: Liberal media crops out knife held by "peace activist"

Postby Corth » Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:47 pm

Perhaps he meant allow them to go to the west bank? Otherwise, yeah.. nobody is willing to take them.
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Re: Liberal media crops out knife held by "peace activist"

Postby kiryan » Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:40 pm

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100609/ap_ ... ma_mideast

Obama has started calling the blockade unsustainable. He has called for a loosening of the blockade for food ect while still restricting the flow of weapons. Is he fuking stupid?

EVERY time Israel blocks a ship, it offers to have them dock in an Israeli port, unload, be inspected for banned items such as weapons and transfer the rest to Gaza. This is not an issue of humanitarian supplies not getting through. They aren't trying to do humanitarian work, they are trying to force Israel to drop the blockade.

Ships were the primary method of transferring arms to Gaza. Smuggling thousands of pounds of weapons into Egypt and then through tunnels mostly from Egypt just isn't very sustainable. Neither is smuggling in thousands of tons of concrete they want to rebuild their bunkers and military installations with. In the past shipments of concrete were commandeered by Hamas (and PLO before) to build bunkers which is why Israel started restricting them.
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Re: Liberal media crops out knife held by "peace activist"

Postby Botef » Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:58 pm

Actually until just a few days ago Israel was still prohibiting items like soda, juice, jam, shaving cream, potato chips, cookies, candy and a variety of herbs, including coriander. Part of the problem is that Israel likes to portray the blockade being only for weapons and materials related to such when that has never been the case. The reality is that Israel's mission with this blockade is to limit entry of goods to the "humanitarian minimum". Israel has even stated that they calculate the minimum nutritional requirements of residents in Gaza as part of the execution of that mission. What that minimum is has never been publicly released despite requests from international parties, because they state publicly disclosing this would harm their national security.
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Re: Liberal media crops out knife held by "peace activist"

Postby Corth » Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:43 am

That would make sense. They are attempting to overthrow the Hamas government. Seems like a sound way of doing it - make life miserable there until the government changes. Remember - this is war, not candyland.
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Re: Liberal media crops out knife held by "peace activist"

Postby kiryan » Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:36 am

Yes I know that Botef. Sorry, I don't sympathize that they can't get coriander and cookies. I do generally disagree with collective punishment, but the people have a responsibility to reign their government in too... and the gazans are not choosing the path of peace with Israel.

I hadn't heard about the calculation of the # of people and the minimium nutritional requirements. That is something I would object too... Basic, somewhat nutritious food should be available in substantial quantities. However, extra food could be stock piled and used in a siege. More than likely, Israel doesn't let more than that in because Hamas confiscates the extra and saves/doles it out as pay or to build good will. Kind of like how Mynmar wanted all the foreign aid to be given to them to distribute. One truck to this party official's house, 2 boxes to starving people... and the people were thankful to their government.

What is the alternative that allows Israel to be safe and live in peace?
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Re: Liberal media crops out knife held by "peace activist"

Postby teflor the ranger » Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:51 am

Corth wrote:Perhaps he meant allow them to go to the west bank? Otherwise, yeah.. nobody is willing to take them.

Of course no one is willing to take them. That's the real crisis that the international community is responsible. It is reprehensible that other nations won't protect civilians by taking them in.

But the truth is if all civilians leave Gaza, then Hamas is done for.

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