wow, tenure changed in a blue state?

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kiryan
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wow, tenure changed in a blue state?

Postby kiryan » Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:10 pm

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100612/ap_ ... g_teachers

Great news, hard to believe. Let's see if it actually goes into effect in 2014 like written. I think many unions are giving ground these days because they don't want a damaging public fight over their pensions and wages and protections in the middle of a recession.

This last paragraph is interesting...

"Margaret Bobb, an earth science teacher at Denver's East High School, said bad teachers are often quietly coached out of their jobs by administrators, avoiding the protracted tenure dismissal process. She contends tenure is still needed to prevent good teachers from being dismissed for running afoul of administrators and to prevent experienced — and more expensive — teachers from being let go by cash-strapped districts. "

Why shouldn't "cash strapped" school districts be able to let go experienced and expensive teachers? If they are cash strapped and can't let go of the expensive teachers, what do they have to cut instead? New text books, field trips, have larger class rooms?

--
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/12/nyreg ... nsion.html

in related news, NY wants to borrow 6 billion from the state pension fund to make the required yearly payment to the same state pension fund. Also hillarious is the statement that the plan expects an 8% return yearly on its investments, but the loan is only going to pay 5% interest. Why yes, that will cause a future fund shortfall.
Kifle
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Re: wow, tenure changed in a blue state?

Postby Kifle » Sat Jun 12, 2010 8:55 pm

Or, and here's just a shot in the dark, we could divert wasted tax funds into our education system instead of letting them get "cash strapped". Good teachers are well worth the investment.
Sarvis
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Re: wow, tenure changed in a blue state?

Postby Sarvis » Sat Jun 12, 2010 9:04 pm

kiryan wrote:Why shouldn't "cash strapped" school districts be able to let go experienced and expensive teachers? If they are cash strapped and can't let go of the expensive teachers, what do they have to cut instead? New text books, field trips, have larger class rooms?


Maybe because an experienced teacher is likely more effective than a shiny new textbook with one or two words changed from the previous edition?
Vaprak
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Re: wow, tenure changed in a blue state?

Postby Vaprak » Sun Jun 13, 2010 3:14 am

We already spend too much money on public education. The system doesn't work. Teacher's unions have consistently been given a priority status at the expense of the children time and again. Teacher's unions have money to lobby their politicians, students do not. The US Departement of Education needs to be abolished and control of schools returned to the state and local levels. There needs to be more voucher programs and tax offsets for private schools.

From http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=11852:
Between the 1970-71 school year and 2006-07, inflation-adjusted US public-school spending more than doubled, from $5,593 to $12,463 per pupil. The number of staff per pupil ballooned about 70 percent.

This might have been a fine investment — had it produced anything approaching commensurate improvements in achievement. But it didn't, according to scores on the National Assessment of Educational Progress — the so-called Nation's Report Card.

Indeed, while resources were blasted into the schools with a fire hose, test scores for 17-year-olds — essentially, our schools' "final products" — remained almost completely unchanged.


Also, my education experience was that the "experienced" (ie tenured) teachers didn't teach me anything other than how to be lazy and get away with it. It was the young, inexperienced, fresh out of college teachers that inspired me and caused me to hunger for more knowledge.

Public schools in general are inneficient, expensive, and on average do not prepare students to the same level that private schools do.

From http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=11869:
We know that K-12 education is the biggest single cost to state and local governments. And yet, most citizens and politicians have little or no idea how much we are spend-ing on education at a per-pupil level.

American taxpayers spend around $600 billion per year on K-12 public education. A sobering 27 cents of every tax dollar collected at the state or local level is consumed by the government-run K-12 education system, compared to only 8 cents for Medicaid.

<snip>

Based on federal data, we estimate the typical private school in Virginia charges just under $7,000 per student per year, and many far less than that. Government schools, at $13,000, spend a whop-ping 88 percent more.


Generally I don't have a very high opinion of Florida Gov Charlie Crist, but he did do one thing right (even though he vetoed a bill to keep the tenure system intact), he signed the Florida Tax Credit Scholarship Program into law: http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=11734
teflor the ranger
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Re: wow, tenure changed in a blue state?

Postby teflor the ranger » Sun Jun 13, 2010 5:04 am

Because there should be nothing controversial or political about a high school science teacher, tenure should be struck down as a false instrument of security - because it only protect the teacher - not the public and the children that they are supposed to serve as a public entity.
kiryan
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Re: wow, tenure changed in a blue state?

Postby kiryan » Sun Jun 13, 2010 5:53 am

55% of Oregon's state general budget goes to public education. Is that not a big enough investment? Should it be 65%? 45%? California is 52-55% on average. I've seen similar figures from other states in the past.

Where is this lack of investment that schools, teachers and politicans cry about whenever schools are facing budget shortfalls and might have to lay off teachers? If you can't get the job done with the billions that are poured into the system, how many more billions are you ready to invest "for the future"? I don't like scapegoating teachers, but job guarantees are inherently suspicious. If these teachers were so good, then they have nothing to worry about. If we can do even close to the same level of performance for 25% less cost, thats an investment in the future we need to make.

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