TorilMUD Forums

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/11/11 ... ttlements/

"Making peace is more important than settlements," he said. "A comprehensive and fair peace is more precious than anything else."

I frickin love it. This is Abbas's statement while making a speech, an appeal to Israel. Am I the only person who read the title and for 1 brief second was thinking holy crap, this is the breakthrough we've been waiting for. Palestine is ready to give up and forget about the settlements in the name of peace?

HAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHahhahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhaha....... Joke's on me I suppose.

No instead its a self serving public statement that sounds genuine and tries to take the moral high road but should be translated: We will continue to kill your children until you stop building settlements.

The arab world started a war, lost it, and expects tribute from Israel. Something about the whole thing doesn't seem to connect.

No matter what they will have a problem. The palistinian population is growing far more than the israeli, and making the settlements where they do will force a reaction.

If US soil was voilated with foreign settlements, then I am fairly certain nobody would like it. Ofcourse americans have a history of doing it, but at the same time they killed the indians. But these days israeli forces can't kill enough people like the US did.

I think the solution is they have to get along.

If the US invaded Canada without any provocation and without warning, and Canada whooped our ass south 20 miles.. it would be somewhat hypocritical to whine and complain about foreigners occupying our land.

The problem, Dis, with those parties simply 'getting along', is that the radical element of Palestinean society examplified by Hamas has no intention of ever living side by side with Israel. It is their stated goal to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. The best they can ever offer is a temporary ceasefire to horde munitions for the next infitada. Moreover, it isn't like Hamas is a fringe element. They control the Palestinean government following a democratic vote in which they won the majority. Note that they concentrate their military efforts on blowing up civilians. How do you expect these two sides to 'get along'?

As I see it Hamas is a result of failed israeli policies.

There are plenty of fanatics on the other side aswell, especially those that choose to build settlements.

People can get along if they respect eachother. I know it will take a while before that happens, but South Africa is a good example where it happened with blacks and white. Blacks also slowly got respect in the states after the slaves where set free.

Lets say canada took a chunk of usa, and somehow left a pocket of USA inside their land. They build a wall about it, and said that noone was allowed in or out. Those people inside the pocket would mabye not rebel, but they would buy a gun or something, and begin to be sceptical towards Canada. democrats would begin to vote republican etc.

I know it is a silly example, but I think it is important to accept that it is human reflex to act if you get cornered.

Disotulip wrote:As I see it Hamas is a result of failed israeli policies.

The implication of this is that Hamas is fundamentally a political organization. I disagree with that.

Based largely upon the principles of Islamic fundamentalism that were gaining momentum throughout the Arab world in the 1980s, Hamas was founded as an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood in 1987, during the First Intifada.[13][14] Sheik Ahmed Yassin declared in 1987 that Hamas was founded for the purpose of Jihad, to liberate Palestine from Israeli opression and to establish an Islamic state "from the Mediterranean Sea to the Jordan River."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas

I see two basic goals. 1) Liberate Palestine from Israeli Opression; 2) Establish an Islamic State.

By contrast, Arafat's organization, Fatah, is secular, and is just concerned with "complete liberation of Palestine, and eradication of Zionist economic, political, military and cultural existence."

Both advocate the destruction of Israel. But you can only negotiate with Fatah. Hamas sees the destruction of Israel as part of a larger religious goal of establishing a pan-Islamic state. Allowing Israel to exist in any way, shape, or form, insults their religious convictions.

i thought they voted for hamas since that was the only organization providing water, food, and electricity without 80%+ corruption (zealots are harder to corrupt). same with the taliban elsewhere