Canadian health care allocation officials

Minimum moderation and heated debates.
kiryan
Sojourner
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
Contact:

Canadian health care allocation officials

Postby kiryan » Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:51 pm

canadian death panels are apparently called "health care allocation" officials.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/02/24 ... -transfer/

Canadian health care allocation officials already ruled that Joseph had to be taken off life support and allowed to die in the hospital. A Canadian judge then ruled that Maraachli had to give his consent to having the breathing tube removed by Monday. He refused.
...
Doctors are now asking the Canadian government to allow them to remove the breathing tube without the family’s consent. The Ontario hospital contends that a tracheotomy would be painful for the boy, despite their argument that Joseph is in a vegetative state.

== while this child is probably beyond all but a medical miracle, it is what it is... the healthcare officials made the choice for the parents based on some decision thats obviously not because a tracheotomy would be "painful".
kiryan
Sojourner
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
Contact:

Re: Canadian health care allocation officials

Postby kiryan » Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:50 pm

When it rains it pours, here's Britian's version of a death panel

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/217462.php

Roche's Expensive Avastin Denied UK Approval For Breast Cancer

"The evidence for the effectiveness of [Avastin] in prolonging survival wasn't robust. Overall, [the drug] didn't show enough of a demonstrable benefit for it to be considered a cost-effective use of National Health Service resources. NICE is committed to ensuring the most effective and efficient treatments, both for patients and the NHS, are available to those who need them. With this in mind, we already recommend a range of treatment options for patients with metastatic breast cancer in our clinical guideline for advanced breast cancer."
...
It noted that Avastin in combination with chemotherapy "is a valuable treatment option, halting the growth of tumors for an extra 5.5 months on average."


== the article does cite that the US denied it citing its "risks" (rather than lack of robust data on its effectiveness). At least it doesn't cite COST like the Brittish system does.

==also, there does appear to be an alternate mechanism that a patient in the UK can still get the governemnt to pay for it... so I'm really just making a mountain out of a mole hill... but be assured, cost will go into deciding whether or not to offer drugs and treatments in the US under ACA.
Kifle
Sojourner
Posts: 3830
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 6:01 am
Location: Huntington, IN USA
Contact:

Re: Canadian health care allocation officials

Postby Kifle » Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:54 am

I'm not really seeing your point. Either the government causes people to go untreated by cost benefit analysis or the private insurance group denies coverage through cost-benefit analysis. Either way, the sick person is getting fucked. Condemning one and disregarding the other is a good example of being too partisan to see the big picture.
Fotex group-says 'Behold! penis!'

Kifle puts on his robe and wizard hat.

Thalidyrr tells you 'Yeah, you know, getting it like a jackhammer wears you out.'

Teflor "You can beat a tank with a shovel!!1!1!!one!!1!uno!!"
Teflor Lyorian
Sojourner
Posts: 1273
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:39 pm

Re: Canadian health care allocation officials

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:54 am

Some private insurance is so good they approve any treatment.
"You see, the devil haunts a hungry man.
If you don’t wanna join him, you got to beat him."
- Kris Kristofferson (To Beat the Devil)
Corth
Sojourner
Posts: 6002
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 6:01 am
Location: NY, USA

Re: Canadian health care allocation officials

Postby Corth » Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:08 am

Resources are not unlimited so there absolutely MUST be some way to allocate them. In a free market it's very easy - if you can pay for it, you get it. If not you are shit out of luck. Obviously we don't have such a system. I don't see any way to avoid the so-called 'death panels' unless you want to go to a free market healthcare system, which I don't think there is much support for.

Let me put it another way. As much as we hate to admit it, life has a monetary value. Don't believe me? If life didn't have a monetary value then the speed limit would be 3 miles per hour on all roads and highway. Since life was priceless, society would determine that the potential for a life endangering accident would outweigh the economic benefits of people travelling efficiently. The fact that we have 65 MPH highway speed limit implicitly assumes that life has a monetary value. You can die in a 65 MPH accident!! But society has determined that we need to be able to risk our lives to get places faster.

And in the healthcare context, once more, life has a monetary value. And whether it's an insurance company or a government panel, someone, somewhere, is going to decide how the scarce available healthcare resources are allocated.
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth

Goddamned slippery mage.
Ashiwi
Sojourner
Posts: 4161
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Canadian health care allocation officials

Postby Ashiwi » Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:56 pm

I would like to take this moment to remind certain individuals who have previously argued vociferously for the free market process that drives healthcare costs in this country that Avastin is available to anybody who can pony up the cash for it. I seem to remember some people in this forum supporting this system heartily.
Gormal tells you 'im a dwarven onion'
Gormal tells you 'always another beer-soaked layer'

Inama ASSOC:: 'though it may suit your fantasies to think so, i don't need oil for anything.'

Haley: Filthy lucre? I wash that lucre every day until it SHINES!
kiryan
Sojourner
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
Contact:

Re: Canadian health care allocation officials

Postby kiryan » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:07 pm

I don't get it... I fully support the free market distribution of medical care...

I am repeating the claim of death panels in the single / public payer system.

The boy in the canadian system ran into a death panel which took it even further by saying his treatment options are exhausted and he needs to be "allowed" to die.

The avastin issue points to a single payer system in Britian who has decided that a drug that extends life 5.5 months is not worth the money. If this drug would result in you living 5.5 months more too bad.

These are death panels. I think they came to valid rational results, but death panels none the less. Obamacare necessarily has death panels.
Teflor Lyorian
Sojourner
Posts: 1273
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:39 pm

Re: Canadian health care allocation officials

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:21 pm

The free market allows individuals decide who gets Avastin through the process of their wealth accumulation or personal choices of what kind of health insurance coverage they spent their money on.

In the single, government payer scenario, then the government decides who gets Avastin.
"You see, the devil haunts a hungry man.
If you don’t wanna join him, you got to beat him."
- Kris Kristofferson (To Beat the Devil)
Ashiwi
Sojourner
Posts: 4161
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Canadian health care allocation officials

Postby Ashiwi » Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:09 am

I'm pretty sure anybody in Britan who wants Avastin is going to get Avastin if they can afford it.
Gormal tells you 'im a dwarven onion'
Gormal tells you 'always another beer-soaked layer'

Inama ASSOC:: 'though it may suit your fantasies to think so, i don't need oil for anything.'

Haley: Filthy lucre? I wash that lucre every day until it SHINES!
Teflor Lyorian
Sojourner
Posts: 1273
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:39 pm

Re: Canadian health care allocation officials

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:47 am

They could potentially get it from outside of the country.

However, do note that much of their wealth is being taken by their government to pay for the healthcare they aren't receiving.
"You see, the devil haunts a hungry man.
If you don’t wanna join him, you got to beat him."
- Kris Kristofferson (To Beat the Devil)
Kifle
Sojourner
Posts: 3830
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 6:01 am
Location: Huntington, IN USA
Contact:

Re: Canadian health care allocation officials

Postby Kifle » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:47 am

Teflor Lyorian wrote:They could potentially get it from outside of the country.

However, do note that much of their wealth is being taken by their government to pay for the healthcare they aren't receiving.


Eh, I'll probably never get social security, and I don't get welfare and other things. I don't get benefit from the schools in South Carolina, nor do I get benefit from their roads. There's a lot of things the government spends money on that we will probably never benefit from. This isn't much different.
Fotex group-says 'Behold! penis!'

Kifle puts on his robe and wizard hat.

Thalidyrr tells you 'Yeah, you know, getting it like a jackhammer wears you out.'

Teflor "You can beat a tank with a shovel!!1!1!!one!!1!uno!!"
Teflor Lyorian
Sojourner
Posts: 1273
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:39 pm

Re: Canadian health care allocation officials

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:43 am

Kifle wrote:
Teflor Lyorian wrote:They could potentially get it from outside of the country.

However, do note that much of their wealth is being taken by their government to pay for the healthcare they aren't receiving.


Eh, I'll probably never get social security, and I don't get welfare and other things. I don't get benefit from the schools in South Carolina, nor do I get benefit from their roads. There's a lot of things the government spends money on that we will probably never benefit from. This isn't much different.

In the US, you're probably looking at a 25-30% tax burden, so, 10 hours out of a 40 hour work week, you work for the government.

In the UK or France, you're looking at something closer to 50%.
"You see, the devil haunts a hungry man.
If you don’t wanna join him, you got to beat him."
- Kris Kristofferson (To Beat the Devil)
Sarvis
Sojourner
Posts: 6369
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA
Contact:

Re: Canadian health care allocation officials

Postby Sarvis » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:04 pm

Kifle wrote:
Teflor Lyorian wrote:They could potentially get it from outside of the country.

However, do note that much of their wealth is being taken by their government to pay for the healthcare they aren't receiving.


Eh, I'll probably never get social security, and I don't get welfare and other things. I don't get benefit from the schools in South Carolina, nor do I get benefit from their roads. There's a lot of things the government spends money on that we will probably never benefit from. This isn't much different.


That's not strictly true. You may not get direct, personal benefit... but when the people around you are better off so are you.
<a href="http://www.code-haven.com">Code Haven</a> - For all your programming needs.

I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write. - Some Guy Who Paraphrased Voltaire
kiryan
Sojourner
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
Contact:

Re: Canadian health care allocation officials

Postby kiryan » Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:34 am

teflor... I think you're forgetting sales tax...

Also, I pay 5.7% of my income in property tax a year as well (function of property value and your income, I own too much house damn that wife)
Teflor Lyorian
Sojourner
Posts: 1273
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:39 pm

Re: Canadian health care allocation officials

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:01 am

I'm not forgetting any taxes. That's the average tax burden. Most taxes are paid by the small minority at the top.
"You see, the devil haunts a hungry man.
If you don’t wanna join him, you got to beat him."
- Kris Kristofferson (To Beat the Devil)

Return to “Current Events & Politics”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests