Should Public Schools Teach Union Rights?

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Teflor Lyorian
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Should Public Schools Teach Union Rights?

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:25 pm

Part of a public education is a lengthy discussion and education about the rights legislated to the people. One of those right is the right to unionize or participate in collective bargaining as an employee with our employers.

Should public schools be forced to include an education on labor rights as a part of a public education, even if unions spend more money on political causes than on their own members?
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Ragorn
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Re: Should Public Schools Teach Union Rights?

Postby Ragorn » Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:41 pm

Unions and collective bargaining are usually part of the Civics curriculum (~8th grade Social Studies).

Also, education standards are determined at the state level without federal intervention, with the exception of NCLB requirements for Math and Reading.

Also also, textbook publishers are by far the largest group lobbying at the state level about curriculum. Textbook publishers have a large stake in what is required to be taught, because their profit model revolves around publishing slightly modified editions of the same textbooks year over year.

Now, to directly answer your question: Yes, students should be made aware of their rights as a worker, just as they learn about their rights as a citizen and a voter.
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Teflor Lyorian
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Re: Should Public Schools Teach Union Rights?

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:50 pm

And yet, public schools do not go very far to educate students on their right to be an ass, to take advantage of the stupidity of others, or to form political action groups that can raise funds but don't actually have to spend money on political action.

There are plenty of rights that aren't taught in public schools, so why is the union in the curriculum?
"You see, the devil haunts a hungry man.
If you don’t wanna join him, you got to beat him."
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Re: Should Public Schools Teach Union Rights?

Postby Ragorn » Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:59 pm

I guess you'll have to take that up with your local state government. I learned plenty about political action groups and the various loopholes they use to exploit funding laws, but that might be because I took AP Government in Virginia, within spitting distance of Washington, DC.
- Ragorn
Shar: Leave the moaning to the people who have real issues to moan about like rangers or newbies.
Corth: Go ask out a chick that doesn't wiggle her poon in people's faces for a living.
Teflor Lyorian
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Re: Should Public Schools Teach Union Rights?

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:33 pm

Seems appropriate, as AP government is an elective class and conforms with college level courses.
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Teflor Lyorian
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Re: Should Public Schools Teach Union Rights?

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:36 pm

But to modify the question: Should it be a part of publicly funded mandatory high school education, especially taking into consideration that many unions direct more funds to political activities than their own members?
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Re: Should Public Schools Teach Union Rights?

Postby kiryan » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:00 pm

I'm not sure I follow... are you making a case about the collusion?

I don't think HS prepares us properly to enter the work force or be a member of society.

I agree that we should have extensive instruction on employment... since that is what most people do after HS and college... and it should be very realistic... Unions should be covered as should general differences between private, public and military employment.

Furthermore, they should teach extensively about existing social programs... Medicare/medicaid, social security vs 401k vs pensions, WIC, food stamps, how unemployment works... housing assistance, heating assistance, filing your taxes etc... They should even teach about things like foundations and charity care at hospitals. People should know this stuff exists, what they generally help with and how to access them...

Kids graduating high school really are poorly equipped to enter society... and they start at huge disadvantages in even planning for the future because they have no understanding of how anything works. When you graduated HS did you know you don't get unemployment if you quit? or that WIC exists? Did you have any idea what actually goes on in the employment agency (or the fact its not the "unemployment" department?).

A solid grounding in constitution, voting rights, etc is good and the traditional focus of civics classes... but its not as practical as the above... even if programs change at the whim of the legislators you should at know whats law today so you can understand the changes as they occur.
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Re: Should Public Schools Teach Union Rights?

Postby Ragorn » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:36 pm

Teflor Lyorian wrote:But to modify the question: Should it be a part of publicly funded mandatory high school education, especially taking into consideration that many unions direct more funds to political activities than their own members?

I think workers' rights should be a part of publicly funded education. The issue of how the AFL-CIO spends its money is unrelated to the question.
- Ragorn
Shar: Leave the moaning to the people who have real issues to moan about like rangers or newbies.
Corth: Go ask out a chick that doesn't wiggle her poon in people's faces for a living.
Teflor Lyorian
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Re: Should Public Schools Teach Union Rights?

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:37 pm

Ragorn wrote:
Teflor Lyorian wrote:But to modify the question: Should it be a part of publicly funded mandatory high school education, especially taking into consideration that many unions direct more funds to political activities than their own members?

I think workers' rights should be a part of publicly funded education. The issue of how the AFL-CIO spends its money is unrelated to the question.

Why do you believe they are more important than the rights that aren't taught as a part of a publically funded education?
"You see, the devil haunts a hungry man.
If you don’t wanna join him, you got to beat him."
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Re: Should Public Schools Teach Union Rights?

Postby Ragorn » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:47 pm

Why do you believe they are more important than the rights that aren't taught as a part of a publically funded education?

I actually didn't issue a comparative judgement at all. I objectively stated that I think workers' rights should be taught in publicly funded schools.
- Ragorn
Shar: Leave the moaning to the people who have real issues to moan about like rangers or newbies.
Corth: Go ask out a chick that doesn't wiggle her poon in people's faces for a living.
Teflor Lyorian
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Re: Should Public Schools Teach Union Rights?

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:54 pm

Ragorn wrote:
Why do you believe they are more important than the rights that aren't taught as a part of a publically funded education?

I actually didn't issue a comparative judgement at all. I objectively stated that I think workers' rights should be taught in publicly funded schools.

Not all legislated rights can be taught in a public primary and secondary education. I think you have, by promoting it, made a comparative judgement against at least other rights that wouldn't fit.

So why do you believe it is important enough to teach it?
"You see, the devil haunts a hungry man.
If you don’t wanna join him, you got to beat him."
- Kris Kristofferson (To Beat the Devil)
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Re: Should Public Schools Teach Union Rights?

Postby kiryan » Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:03 pm

Kids need to be taught what they need to become functioning members of society... specifically how to interact with their government and be a member of the work force.

I would support in the employment section, discussing what unions do with their dues.

I might endorse education focused on PACs and tax loop holes.. but its not in the same tier with employment education, government services education and the basics of how to participate in government. Voting, the constitution, how branches of government work is all tier 1 knowledge, specifcs on PACs and organizing non profits and activism is tier 2 material.
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Re: Should Public Schools Teach Union Rights?

Postby Ragorn » Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:05 pm

Teflor Lyorian wrote:Not all legislated rights can be taught in a public primary and secondary education. I think you have, by promoting it, made a comparative judgement against at least other rights that wouldn't fit.

If you ask me to make a comparative judgement and give me the terms, I'll tell you which set of facts I think is "more important" to include in school curriculum. I haven't made any kind of judgement on the other stuff that isn't taught.

So why do you believe it is important enough to teach it?

It's a set of laws and conditions that have a very real and tangible impact on each person's life. I favor teaching labor laws in school, and I also favor teaching basic economics, tenets of personal finance, and basic information about credit and debt. Personally, I think this is all very valuable information that will improve the lives of graduates who learn it.
- Ragorn
Shar: Leave the moaning to the people who have real issues to moan about like rangers or newbies.
Corth: Go ask out a chick that doesn't wiggle her poon in people's faces for a living.
Teflor Lyorian
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Re: Should Public Schools Teach Union Rights?

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:16 pm

So, on the basis that high school students should be prepared to enter the workforce?
"You see, the devil haunts a hungry man.
If you don’t wanna join him, you got to beat him."
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Re: Should Public Schools Teach Union Rights?

Postby Botef » Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:10 pm

In my 8th grade civics class we briefly covered unions, along with how a sole proprietorship, partnership, LLC and corporation is formed and operated. Given the context of the class some discussion on unions was quite appropriate and applicable to the curriculum presented.
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Teflor Lyorian
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Re: Should Public Schools Teach Union Rights?

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:29 am

Thanks for your opinions and your questions. I managed to get an idea or two from this thread.
"You see, the devil haunts a hungry man.
If you don’t wanna join him, you got to beat him."
- Kris Kristofferson (To Beat the Devil)
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Re: Should Public Schools Teach Union Rights?

Postby Ragorn » Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:47 pm

I think it would be great if high school students were given an education that prepares them to enter the workforce. Sure, I'll go along with that.
- Ragorn
Shar: Leave the moaning to the people who have real issues to moan about like rangers or newbies.
Corth: Go ask out a chick that doesn't wiggle her poon in people's faces for a living.

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