black student picked to play role of "slave"

Minimum moderation and heated debates.
kiryan
Sojourner
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
Contact:

black student picked to play role of "slave"

Postby kiryan » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:20 pm

Some teacher organized an in class "slave auction" as part of some lesson. Lets assume there is a compelling and legitimate educational prupose served and get to the real controversy.

A black kid was assigned the role of slave, refuse to take part and was sent to his desk. The other black kid in the class was assigned the role of master and presumably participated.

Is there a controversy here? was it insensitive to assign one black kid to be a slave? Should they be assigned the role of master due to their heritage? Does it make a difference if this black child was not descendant from slaves, but rather immigrated recently from a country that has never allowed slavery... let alone the fact that the child nor his parents nor his grandparents had ever personally experienced slavery? Does it matter if the assignments were random?

I think its racist to say that the black kid must not be assigned the role of slave. How long do we continue to prostrate ourselves before people who have never experienced slavery directly or indirectly?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/0 ... 31318.html
Kifle
Sojourner
Posts: 3830
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 6:01 am
Location: Huntington, IN USA
Contact:

Re: black student picked to play role of "slave"

Postby Kifle » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:31 pm

It's fucking retarded and the kid should get whatever punishment a white kid would for refusing to participate in class. At this point, we're talking, at best, a three generation gap between slavery and a teenager -- at the very best. These people wouldn't know what it was like to be a slave just as much as a white person in America. Furthermore, would it have been a problem if a white kid had refused to be a slave master? Would it had garnered any publicity? There would be extenuating circumstances if the teacher was racist or had ulterior motives, but that's just not the case. The kid is just like all of the other cry babies looking for sympathy for something that never happened to them. I think it's about time we stop paying attention to those who attempt to force guilt or special treatment out of others for something they never condoned or did. It's insulting to slaves, and it's insulting to those that grew a sack two generations ago.
Fotex group-says 'Behold! penis!'

Kifle puts on his robe and wizard hat.

Thalidyrr tells you 'Yeah, you know, getting it like a jackhammer wears you out.'

Teflor "You can beat a tank with a shovel!!1!1!!one!!1!uno!!"
Ragorn
Sojourner
Posts: 4732
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:01 am

Re: black student picked to play role of "slave"

Postby Ragorn » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:34 pm

It's a hot button issue, and you shouldn't be picking students out to play slave and slave master.

Yeah, it's a racially-charged issue, but the fact that race is the driving factor in the outrage doesn't make it any less of a problem.
- Ragorn
Shar: Leave the moaning to the people who have real issues to moan about like rangers or newbies.
Corth: Go ask out a chick that doesn't wiggle her poon in people's faces for a living.
Teflor Lyorian
Sojourner
Posts: 1273
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:39 pm

Re: black student picked to play role of "slave"

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:36 pm

How could people not have known that this could have caused a problem?
"You see, the devil haunts a hungry man.
If you don’t wanna join him, you got to beat him."
- Kris Kristofferson (To Beat the Devil)
kiryan
Sojourner
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
Contact:

Re: black student picked to play role of "slave"

Postby kiryan » Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:10 pm

100% agree Kifle.. although the claims of ongoing institutional racism do have their merits.

Ragorn, isn't acadamia the place where hot button issues are supposed to be explored? Seems to me that nearly all leftist hot button issues start out and are promoted from academia... Isn't acadamia a place where we can explore issues in an open manner?

Teflor, sure they should've known it would cause a problem. Isn't the right question... why should it cause a problem?
Teflor Lyorian
Sojourner
Posts: 1273
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:39 pm

Re: black student picked to play role of "slave"

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:24 am

No, the question is: who the hell is trying to stir up problems and why are they being allowed to do so? Tell that union to kick that member!
"You see, the devil haunts a hungry man.
If you don’t wanna join him, you got to beat him."
- Kris Kristofferson (To Beat the Devil)
Ashiwi
Sojourner
Posts: 4161
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 5:01 am

Re: black student picked to play role of "slave"

Postby Ashiwi » Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:27 pm

Teflor Lyorian wrote:How could people not have known that this could have caused a problem?


Seriously, how out of touch does a teacher have to be in order to pull something boneheaded like this? If you can't act out the whipping, hanging and total degredation of a group of people because of their color, then what's the point of acting out a slave auction? Were these kids supposed to think it was just like today's charity star auctions?
Gormal tells you 'im a dwarven onion'
Gormal tells you 'always another beer-soaked layer'

Inama ASSOC:: 'though it may suit your fantasies to think so, i don't need oil for anything.'

Haley: Filthy lucre? I wash that lucre every day until it SHINES!
Kifle
Sojourner
Posts: 3830
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 6:01 am
Location: Huntington, IN USA
Contact:

Re: black student picked to play role of "slave"

Postby Kifle » Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:20 pm

Maybe the teacher thought 150 years was long enough to wait before he was able to be color blind? The best thing for african-americans is to be treated equal. Equality would state that black kids should be able to both play the master and slave in a mock representation of the times. He did exactly what he should have. People that still give credence to this type of behavior from the child are the same ones that prolong racism. Either they are equal or they aren't.
Fotex group-says 'Behold! penis!'

Kifle puts on his robe and wizard hat.

Thalidyrr tells you 'Yeah, you know, getting it like a jackhammer wears you out.'

Teflor "You can beat a tank with a shovel!!1!1!!one!!1!uno!!"
kiryan
Sojourner
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
Contact:

Re: black student picked to play role of "slave"

Postby kiryan » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:51 pm

+1 kifle
Teflor Lyorian
Sojourner
Posts: 1273
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:39 pm

Re: black student picked to play role of "slave"

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:17 pm

They're clearly not equal, check out how offended so many of them are. (and if you couldn't tell, i was being sarcastic, i mean, I even dragged the unions into the last post)
"You see, the devil haunts a hungry man.
If you don’t wanna join him, you got to beat him."
- Kris Kristofferson (To Beat the Devil)
kiryan
Sojourner
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
Contact:

Re: black student picked to play role of "slave"

Postby kiryan » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:46 pm

my bad lol!
Ashiwi
Sojourner
Posts: 4161
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 5:01 am

Re: black student picked to play role of "slave"

Postby Ashiwi » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:59 am

I am serious, though. It's incredibly poor taste to have a mock slave auction in class. What is it teaching these kids? What they'll see and experience is nothing like what really happened, so why do it? And I'm not referring to the specific issue of color, here. What was this teacher going to do next ... a mock Jewish deathcamp culling of the sick and weak for the incinerator? How about a good old-fashioned Cambodian genocidal massacre?

Edit: I'm not referring to the specific issue of *black* color. The degredation of a people because of the difference in their skin color, country of origin or faith isn't something that can be acted out by a bunch of kids in order for them to experience the full impact. A good parent wouldn't WANT their kid to experience the full impact of such a thing.
Gormal tells you 'im a dwarven onion'
Gormal tells you 'always another beer-soaked layer'

Inama ASSOC:: 'though it may suit your fantasies to think so, i don't need oil for anything.'

Haley: Filthy lucre? I wash that lucre every day until it SHINES!
Kifle
Sojourner
Posts: 3830
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 6:01 am
Location: Huntington, IN USA
Contact:

Re: black student picked to play role of "slave"

Postby Kifle » Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:22 am

Ashiwi wrote:I am serious, though. It's incredibly poor taste to have a mock slave auction in class. What is it teaching these kids? What they'll see and experience is nothing like what really happened, so why do it? And I'm not referring to the specific issue of color, here. What was this teacher going to do next ... a mock Jewish deathcamp culling of the sick and weak for the incinerator? How about a good old-fashioned Cambodian genocidal massacre?

Edit: I'm not referring to the specific issue of *black* color. The degredation of a people because of the difference in their skin color, country of origin or faith isn't something that can be acted out by a bunch of kids in order for them to experience the full impact. A good parent wouldn't WANT their kid to experience the full impact of such a thing.


We had mock death camps in high school and middle school. It was to show unfair treatment of humans. The nazis were given pretty much whatever they wanted during class for two weeks while the jews had to do all sorts of tedious crap. I also had a revolutionary war demonstration in 5th grade. We did a civil war one as well. A mock slave auction, and then carrying it through the process of slave/master, is a good example to show iniquity where there should be none. It is one thing to read about it, it is another to live it as closely as the school and human rights will allow. I could find millions of great uses for a slave auction and carrying it forward for a week in a high school setting.

Face it, people are crybabies and need to get over things that never even happened to them. Whites need to let go of this ridiculous guilt that's been instilled in us since our birth from both our parents, the media, and jesse jackson.
Fotex group-says 'Behold! penis!'

Kifle puts on his robe and wizard hat.

Thalidyrr tells you 'Yeah, you know, getting it like a jackhammer wears you out.'

Teflor "You can beat a tank with a shovel!!1!1!!one!!1!uno!!"
kiryan
Sojourner
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
Contact:

Re: black student picked to play role of "slave"

Postby kiryan » Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:17 pm

ashiwi... you can't see the value of such an event?

I think it has tremendous potential to really teach and help the kids understand and internalize what they are learning about. Not everyone can read about the holocaust and empathize with what happened there... sure we can all talk about 6 million Jews dieing... but thats just a number slightly bigger than the 200k that died from the tsunami. You can read about mistreatment, but do you really understand what oppression feels like?

You probably do because your empathetic, to me 6 million was a number and I've never met a situation I couldn't force my version of a "fair" resolution too with enough escalation... even when I was 9. However, I think kids probably have better things to do in class. Too much 'education' is this kind of crap and not enough reading, science and math.

and more importantly than whether they should've or shouldn't... why do we continue to support racism in the schools... by treating people of different races differently and by accepting their criticism and complaints as justified.

We need to hear something more like, we'll look into the educational value of the "slave auction" but excuse me mam, have you ever been a slave, thank you good bye.
Teflor Lyorian
Sojourner
Posts: 1273
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:39 pm

Re: black student picked to play role of "slave"

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:50 pm

Children don't need to be taught about inequity. All they have to do is stop brainwashing children then let them out for recess for two minutes without super-immediate supervision. They already know about what it is.
"You see, the devil haunts a hungry man.
If you don’t wanna join him, you got to beat him."
- Kris Kristofferson (To Beat the Devil)
Kifle
Sojourner
Posts: 3830
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 6:01 am
Location: Huntington, IN USA
Contact:

Re: black student picked to play role of "slave"

Postby Kifle » Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:26 pm

I suppose that kids can learn most of what they do at school by doing other things -- like reading and watching pbs; however, they go to school to learn, and the usefulness of what the teacher did has been shown. It comes down crybabies crying over things they are told they need to cry about.

If you separate a black man from a black community at birth, shelter him from the media, and let him grow up in a non-racist neighborhood (or even slightly racist), that child would not throw a fit in class because of the slave/master scenario. In fact, he wouldn't see the connection between him and the events of OVER 150 YEARS AGO. He would probably think, "hrm, they are black, and I am too... but I'm not from Africa, nor am I 170yrs old..."

Here's another thing I don't understand about the racial connection to slavery: The slaves were African. Africans are from Africa. Americans with African decent are from America. The only connection those people have to the slaves, outside of a very diluted bloodline, is skin color. I will guarantee that less than 1% of today's African-Americans can name someone in their family that was a slave -- by name. So, where is the connection to slavery? Where is the emotional distress? What is the problem?

Edit: I also don't understand this. Whites are blamed for slavery in America. Ok, so why don't the African-Americans also hate those that sold them into slavery? Why isn't Oprah pissed at African ancestors who attacked other tribes, stole their women, children, and men, and sold them into slavery? I mean, if you're going to be pissed at the buyer, you have to be pissed at the seller. What if the child is actually related to one of the chiefs that sold slaves into slavery? That would be fucking ironic.

The Chinese. Why are they not in the same position as the AA's? They worked on the transcontinental for virtually nothing, much like the Irish. We can really reduce this down to slave labor. How? By simply taking what they had to spend to provide food and shelter to their families. At 60% of what European's made doing less work, the Chinese were reduced to working to live -- just as a slave was. They got beat, mistreated, denied pay plenty of times. They even went on strike and the employers cut off their food supply -- forcing them to work through starvation. Why do we not get blasted in the media for Chinese slavery? Irish slavery? Why? Because they don't have a Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Chris Rock, or Oprah to trick you suckers into still feeling guilt over these things. The Indians? Hell, the Indians were treated worse than the African slaves ever were -- and we continue to shit on them, but where is there outcry except from a very minor corner of society?

When it comes down to it, I can list every ethnic group in the world and show where they were slaves at one point in their run as a gene pool. But yet we are only obliged to feel guilt and shame towards African-Americans. Why?

Now, if the teacher had wanted to do a mock race riot from the 70's or re-enact the Rodney King riots, I would see somewhat the apprehension of the student -- and that would only be circumstantial with respect to the school's location, the social climate, and the opinion's of the teacher.

I wont feel bad for this kid. I wont feel bad for his parents when they cause a stink. I wont feel bad for their neighbors or their friends. I will feel bad for the teacher and the school system. I will feel bad for the rest of the class who aren't black because they were just taught to still feel bad and nervous about the issue. I will feel bad that society is being held back in terms of race relations. So, if you like being Catholic and feeling guilt and shame for no reason, your welcome to it. You can have my share as well.
Fotex group-says 'Behold! penis!'

Kifle puts on his robe and wizard hat.

Thalidyrr tells you 'Yeah, you know, getting it like a jackhammer wears you out.'

Teflor "You can beat a tank with a shovel!!1!1!!one!!1!uno!!"
kiryan
Sojourner
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
Contact:

Re: black student picked to play role of "slave"

Postby kiryan » Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:38 pm

Blazing Saddles

Olson Johnson: All right. We'll give some land to the niggers and the chinks. But we don't want the Irish.
Ashiwi
Sojourner
Posts: 4161
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 5:01 am

Re: black student picked to play role of "slave"

Postby Ashiwi » Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:42 am

Okay, first let me just say that I've always supported the rights of high school kids to start Caucasian American clubs in any school that supports an African American club. It's not the black/white issue that I find offensive. What I find offensive is the dumbing down of a piece of history that was extraordinarily violent and abusive. The whole inequality issue can be demonstrated by separating kids into those who wear stripes and those who don't wear stripes, and instigating prejudicial favoritism among them simply because they're different. Slave auctions and death camps were atrocities and should be presented as such.

It would be my hope that my child would refuse to participate in such an activity, as well. If I found out my child's teacher was holding a pretend deathcamp at school, I would be in the principal's office the next day. My kids were watching Schindler's List with me when they were 6 and 7, and we had very frank discussions about racism. I live in a state where race riots still occurred when I was a kid. Tulsa has the dubious distinction of being one of the last cities in the United States to declare martial law due to race riots. There are still occurrences in the south of lynchings and burnings and torture and murder simply because of the color of a person's skin. To this day children still disappear into the sex slave trade on a regular basis.

I find *nothing* of value in this kind of activity performed in a classroom. There are too many ways to demonstrate inequality without minimizing the horrors that were the reality.
Gormal tells you 'im a dwarven onion'
Gormal tells you 'always another beer-soaked layer'

Inama ASSOC:: 'though it may suit your fantasies to think so, i don't need oil for anything.'

Haley: Filthy lucre? I wash that lucre every day until it SHINES!
Teflor Lyorian
Sojourner
Posts: 1273
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:39 pm

Re: black student picked to play role of "slave"

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:15 pm

Ashiwi! If we don't teach kids how to focus on the negative, how are they going to grow up to be completely normal?
"You see, the devil haunts a hungry man.
If you don’t wanna join him, you got to beat him."
- Kris Kristofferson (To Beat the Devil)
kiryan
Sojourner
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
Contact:

Re: black student picked to play role of "slave"

Postby kiryan » Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:47 pm

how is acting out an actual slave auction... minimizing the horror... if anything it should make it more real.... especially if done properly.

Return to “Current Events & Politics”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 23 guests