The responsible choice, not being a parent anymore LOL

Minimum moderation and heated debates.
kiryan
Sojourner
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
Contact:

The responsible choice, not being a parent anymore LOL

Postby kiryan » Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:53 am

lol this article is infuriating.

It portrays this obviously intelligent woman as making some sort of noble or even responsible choice for realizing that she no longer wanted to be a parent, getting divorced and letting him be the custodial parent.

HOW THE FUK do people find it responsible" t abandon your children because you realize one day you no longer want to be one anymore. WHAT THE FUK IS WRONG WITH SOCIETY! Responsibility is doing what you don't want to do because you have an obligation to do so.

http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/parentin ... d-2460982/

"I had to leave my children to find them," she writes in an essay at Salon.com.

== what the kind of liberal bat shit is that?

Now a spiritual adviser who writes at Polaris Rising, Liera wrote about her experiences as a non-custodial parent at Literary Mama and Parenting Without a Manual.

== my fuking god people listen to and celebrate this woman?

"I have been a mother since I was 20," she points out. "I did not have the life a normal 20 year old would have. While I don't regret that, I knew that I now have the opportunity to reconnect with who I might have been then,

== you know we used to call this BEING SELFISH and IMMATURE and NARCISSISTIC. man this shit is just like the "responsible" choice to have an abortion because it'll make your life harder... its not fuking responsible. responsible is suffering the consequences of your action.

This article demonstrates everything that is wrong with the values in our society.
Vigis
Sojourner
Posts: 865
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2001 6:01 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: The responsible choice, not being a parent anymore LOL

Postby Vigis » Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:16 am

Oh Please!

Men make this choice all of the time, they abandon their families to marry the 20 year old, do nothing except cut a check every month to "support" the kids, then bow out.

My son is absolutely fine with the fact that his biological father gave up when he was 3 because he has me.

Honestly, I applaud the woman.

Personally, I would fight like hell to keep my kid(s), but courts are biased and in most cases the children are put with the mother; so a woman who allows her ex-husband to keep the kids (as he apparently wanted to) should be celebrated. I think it is great that she realized she wasn't the better parent just because she has a uterus.
Nerox tells you 'Good deal, the other tanks I have don't wanna do it, and since your my special suicidal tank i figure you don't mind one bit!'

Alurissi tells you 'aren't you susposed to get sick or something and not beable to make tia so i can go? :P'
Teflor Lyorian
Sojourner
Posts: 1273
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:39 pm

Re: The responsible choice, not being a parent anymore LOL

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:22 am

Actually, a recent study found narcissism to have health-protective effects.
"You see, the devil haunts a hungry man.
If you don’t wanna join him, you got to beat him."
- Kris Kristofferson (To Beat the Devil)
kiryan
Sojourner
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
Contact:

Re: The responsible choice, not being a parent anymore LOL

Postby kiryan » Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:36 pm

yea i was thinking the same thing vigis on my way home, but had a different take. men do this all of the time... but are universally castigated for not being responsible or not being a good dad... being a weekend dad.

while i agree its a better outcome for a bad parent to realize they dont want to be a parent... and that they will never be a good parent, becaues the are incapable of not being selfish... its a terrible state where you can do this then think of yourself as enlightened or having done something noble. you're not enlightened, your narcissistic and selfish and failed in your responsibility. Failed to put the needs of the children you borught into the world first, failed to uphold the committments you made in marriage. Its symptomatic of moral decay... man or woman.
Teflor Lyorian
Sojourner
Posts: 1273
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:39 pm

Re: The responsible choice, not being a parent anymore LOL

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:02 pm

It seems that she did fulfill her responsibility. I don't see from the article that her children were endangered in any way, and someone was always caring for the children.

Yes, abandoning your children is narcissistic, but reality dictates that many people will be far more narcissistic than others. While her children were deprived of a full-time mother, there are many, many children that grow up perfectly well without one.

That she is celebrated for giving up her full-time mothering role is somewhat perverse, much in the same way that people celebrate others that fail to adapt to their circumstances and accept their responsibilities, this woman represents a very common feeling that is shared by many other women who do not want to be full-time mothers. It's a sentiment that cannot be ignored in our society and cannot be reversed, as things like freedom, liberty, and having options - hallmarks of our society only recently made highly accessible to women, will prompt changes in gender roles.

This woman IS disgusting, the thought of a woman leaving her children is enough to disgust even most other women - even as they, in part, sympathize with how she feels. On the other hand, I often hear about women complaining about how it's the men that make the marriage not work. I think it's starting to become pretty clear that it's the women too.
"You see, the devil haunts a hungry man.
If you don’t wanna join him, you got to beat him."
- Kris Kristofferson (To Beat the Devil)
Kifle
Sojourner
Posts: 3830
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 6:01 am
Location: Huntington, IN USA
Contact:

Re: The responsible choice, not being a parent anymore LOL

Postby Kifle » Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:24 pm

What if the mother staying would be less beneficial to the child? Say the woman can't connect on that level with the children, they will notice this subconsciously. This will cause problems. Now, if the man remarries a woman who does form that bond with the children, aren't the children better off? I dealt with the same issues as a child and my father, and I'm very glad he left. Is the woman selfish? Of course, but I see it as doing a favor to the children. It's much like two people staying married "for the children". This teachers children that unhealthy relationships are normal. It's ok for the woman to stay with the man who beats her. It's ok for a man to stay with a woman that cheats on him constantly.

The woman obviously had issues she couldn't deal with, and she would have eventually taken them out on the children in some way shape or form. She did the right thing, no matter now egotistical the decision was.
Fotex group-says 'Behold! penis!'

Kifle puts on his robe and wizard hat.

Thalidyrr tells you 'Yeah, you know, getting it like a jackhammer wears you out.'

Teflor "You can beat a tank with a shovel!!1!1!!one!!1!uno!!"
Teflor Lyorian
Sojourner
Posts: 1273
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:39 pm

Re: The responsible choice, not being a parent anymore LOL

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:31 pm

I believe that the issue at hand is not that she wasn't a good mother, the issue is that she didn't become a good mother. The way I see it, the general question (presented by the article and its commentators) of "if the mother stays would it be less beneficial to the child" makes the incredibly false, narcissistic assumption that nothing about the mother could ever change.

Sometimes, when people assume the responsibility for bringing life into the world, people actually change to meet that responsibility.. imagine that.
"You see, the devil haunts a hungry man.
If you don’t wanna join him, you got to beat him."
- Kris Kristofferson (To Beat the Devil)
Kifle
Sojourner
Posts: 3830
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 6:01 am
Location: Huntington, IN USA
Contact:

Re: The responsible choice, not being a parent anymore LOL

Postby Kifle » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:31 am

Teflor Lyorian wrote:I believe that the issue at hand is not that she wasn't a good mother, the issue is that she didn't become a good mother. The way I see it, the general question (presented by the article and its commentators) of "if the mother stays would it be less beneficial to the child" makes the incredibly false, narcissistic assumption that nothing about the mother could ever change.

Sometimes, when people assume the responsibility for bringing life into the world, people actually change to meet that responsibility.. imagine that.


The ability to change is in everyone; however, pragmatically speaking, to expect it out of many is not rational. What if the woman were some type of sociopath who couldn't develop those types of connections? Demonize the woman as you will, but this issue lies beyond the specifics.
Fotex group-says 'Behold! penis!'

Kifle puts on his robe and wizard hat.

Thalidyrr tells you 'Yeah, you know, getting it like a jackhammer wears you out.'

Teflor "You can beat a tank with a shovel!!1!1!!one!!1!uno!!"
Teflor Lyorian
Sojourner
Posts: 1273
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:39 pm

Re: The responsible choice, not being a parent anymore LOL

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:02 am

In that case, I might suggest that one be more responsible with the keys to the baby factory. Children aren't returnable goods, as some would seem to believe.
"You see, the devil haunts a hungry man.
If you don’t wanna join him, you got to beat him."
- Kris Kristofferson (To Beat the Devil)
amena wolfsnarl
Sojourner
Posts: 439
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:14 pm
Location: grande prairie alberta canada

Re: The responsible choice, not being a parent anymore LOL

Postby amena wolfsnarl » Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:27 pm

It's a crock of shut where a person can be celebrated for abandoning their family. I am going through that right now, the Ex-girlfriend has moved away, my daughter is still livin with me and will continue to. Hell I'm more than fine with her leaving but it is really affecting my daughter. It's created Abandonment issues and all kinds of other problems, you have a responsibility to your children your the reason they are brought into this world, your stuck with them for 18 years, At no time should a person be congratulated for leaving them.

Sure get the divorce if your not happy, but do not abandon your children. This applies to both men and woman with out a doubt.
Dugmaren tells you 'Welcome to Canada, don't blame us if you're stupid enough to get eaten by the wild life'
Ragorn
Sojourner
Posts: 4732
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:01 am

Re: The responsible choice, not being a parent anymore LOL

Postby Ragorn » Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:45 pm

Mother is an asshole.

Kiryan is an asshole too, for trolling the word "liberal" in there to describe her.
- Ragorn
Shar: Leave the moaning to the people who have real issues to moan about like rangers or newbies.
Corth: Go ask out a chick that doesn't wiggle her poon in people's faces for a living.
Teflor Lyorian
Sojourner
Posts: 1273
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:39 pm

Re: The responsible choice, not being a parent anymore LOL

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:59 pm

Ragorn wrote:Mother is an asshole.

Kiryan is an asshole too, for trolling the word "liberal" in there to describe her.

lawl.
"You see, the devil haunts a hungry man.
If you don’t wanna join him, you got to beat him."
- Kris Kristofferson (To Beat the Devil)
Kifle
Sojourner
Posts: 3830
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 6:01 am
Location: Huntington, IN USA
Contact:

Re: The responsible choice, not being a parent anymore LOL

Postby Kifle » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:04 pm

Nobody is celebrating the woman for leaving; however, it is more than likely best for the child in the long run. In life, you generally choose between the lesser of the two evils, not the good and the evil. Life is about compromise, settling, and trying to make the best of situations. The child will have abandonment issues for a while, but that just means the man has to make due and fix the problem -- which is more than likely less of a problem than if the woman would have stayed. Instead of abandonment issues, the child would probably develop issues of always competing for love, never living up to some standard she feels would get her the love -- and carry that into relationships outside of her immediate family. When the man finds another woman, who actually loves the child, the abandonment issues will go away after a few years, as long as the man didn't find another retard, and the child will grow up understanding what love is and how to properly get it. In the first case, the issues become life-long. In the second case, the issues are short lived. So, I honestly don't see the problem with people abandoning their children in some cases. Sure, the woman is an asshole, but the child is better off.
Fotex group-says 'Behold! penis!'

Kifle puts on his robe and wizard hat.

Thalidyrr tells you 'Yeah, you know, getting it like a jackhammer wears you out.'

Teflor "You can beat a tank with a shovel!!1!1!!one!!1!uno!!"
kiryan
Sojourner
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
Contact:

Re: The responsible choice, not being a parent anymore LOL

Postby kiryan » Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:04 pm

Trolling liberal huh... it is obviously a liberal viewpoint and it was published on a liberal girl power magazine... who are you trying to kid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salon.com

Salon.com, part of Salon Media Group (OTCBB: SLNM), often just called Salon, is an online magazine, with content updated each weekday... Its political viewpoint is (American) liberal.

--

Kifle, I think teflor said it well. You suggest that the woman won't change and you're probably right, but he correctly says she should change.

She won't change because she's been told she can do whatever she wants. Others won't change as a result of this being pushed and celebrated in the liberal sphere. She is being recognized as essentialyl being "responsible" when in fact nothign could be further from the truth.

I understand that some women are chronic losers and their children in hindsight would've been better off without them from a practical point of view. For example a chronic drug addict or some sort of crazy religious wierdo you know like a polygamist... but the reality is that what is in the best interests of the child are two parents who get past their own selfishness to solve problems and raise their children.

parents who leave a marriage or a child should be nearly universally condemned... exceptions being things like real abuse.
Ragorn
Sojourner
Posts: 4732
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:01 am

Re: The responsible choice, not being a parent anymore LOL

Postby Ragorn » Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:39 pm

kiryan wrote:Trolling liberal huh... it is obviously a liberal viewpoint and it was published on a liberal girl power magazine... who are you trying to kid.

Or maybe she's a conservative because she didn't terminate the unwanted pregnancies... the clear end result of conservative politics in action!

Point is, you're trolling by assigning a political affiliation because you like to use "liberal" as an epithet. It's obnoxious, and it's trolling. Cut it out.
- Ragorn
Shar: Leave the moaning to the people who have real issues to moan about like rangers or newbies.
Corth: Go ask out a chick that doesn't wiggle her poon in people's faces for a living.
kiryan
Sojourner
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
Contact:

Re: The responsible choice, not being a parent anymore LOL

Postby kiryan » Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:08 pm

This was in my original post, the only time I used the world liberal.

"I had to leave my children to find them," she writes in an essay at Salon.com.

== what the kind of liberal bat shit is that?

This is your response, the 2nd occurence of the world liberal in this thread.

Kiryan is an asshole too, for trolling the word "liberal" in there to describe her.

--

so I call bullshit. It was an article highlighting a non mainstream choice (liberal by definition) in a liberal magazine (salon.com is a feminist magazine or as Wikipedia puts it "american liberal" view).

The notion that you have to leave your children to find them would not be considered a conservative viewpoint or value. A conservative value system is associated with strong families not divorce and selfish career motivated interests.

My use of liberal to describe the view point is accurate. I precede it with crazy (because I think this is a crazy view) and followed by "bat shit" appropriately communicates how far beyond rational I find the logic thus, "crazy liberal bat shit".

and yes, I consider most liberal view points to be crazy and thus the use of liberal to describe something is necessarily derrogatory.
Teflor Lyorian
Sojourner
Posts: 1273
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:39 pm

Re: The responsible choice, not being a parent anymore LOL

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:10 pm

Ragorn wrote:
kiryan wrote:Trolling liberal huh... it is obviously a liberal viewpoint and it was published on a liberal girl power magazine... who are you trying to kid.

Or maybe she's a conservative because she didn't terminate the unwanted pregnancies... the clear end result of conservative politics in action!

Point is, you're trolling by assigning a political affiliation because you like to use "liberal" as an epithet. It's obnoxious, and it's trolling. Cut it out.

Again, keys to the baby factory. Responsibility.
"You see, the devil haunts a hungry man.
If you don’t wanna join him, you got to beat him."
- Kris Kristofferson (To Beat the Devil)
Corth
Sojourner
Posts: 6002
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 6:01 am
Location: NY, USA

Re: The responsible choice, not being a parent anymore LOL

Postby Corth » Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:43 pm

Agreeing with Ragorn a lot today. Mother is an asshole. What else is there really to say?
Having said all that, the situation has been handled, so this thread is pretty much at an end. -Kossuth

Goddamned slippery mage.
kiryan
Sojourner
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
Contact:

Re: The responsible choice, not being a parent anymore LOL

Postby kiryan » Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:28 pm

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rahna-rei ... 37403.html

Men -- not all but many -- tend to accuse, call names and threaten me. I am "evil," "worse than Hitler," "trailer trash and a perfect liberal," and other things that don't bear repeating.

== yea evil bad oppressive men.

Women's responses to me have been different. More women than men have written to me directly, and they tell me their stories. Most are supportive, but even those who are not have shared advice or a glimpse into their own lives. So many have offered encouragement and thanked me for telling my truth, and some report, unfortunately, that when they tried to express their support in the comments on an article, they too were attacked in turn.

== yea becase women are good. look it up in the dictionary, it literally says GOOD.

When I was separated from my children to do my work, people called my husband "a saint" for taking care of his children. If he had left, and I, as the mother, had stayed behind, people would have asked me how he was doing over there and said how exciting it must be for him to be pursuing the work he loved!

== um these people are douche bags. If you asked me I would've said what a schmuch shirking his responsibility... even if he lived down the street and was a very involved dad. The person who leaves in a marriage, and particularly the ones who leave as a matter of personal choice without the color of abuse, are selfish people who can't be bothered to sacrifice and fulfill the responbiilty they created by having a child. mom or dad are both pathetic children masquerading as "responsible" adults.

t has become clear, in my conversations with women, that too many are functioning as sole caretaker: caring for children, spouses, clients or patients at work if they do work, and then elderly parents as time moves on. Their needs wait until everyone else's are satisfied. Some women embrace this role and do it with love, but that doesn't make them less exhausted and ambivalent.

== yes thats wrong. the man is a douche even if he did marry a crazy woman. also women are great at playing the victim card. Divorce does generally take 2 and the custodial parent is probably 50% of the time the douche too.

Like the high school counselor at my sons' middle school who told me last week that my former husband and I were the best co-parents she has ever seen

== great. a high school counselor said youre the best coparents (not parents) she's ever seen. I can show you dozens of psychologists and sociologists (those are generally guys with PHDs in studying this shit) who say divorce period is bad for kids. old ladies in the diner tell me I have the best behaved children in the world. where can I publish that useless self serving factoid of no intellectual significance?

Return to “Current Events & Politics”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests