Conservatism Increases Suicide

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Sarvis
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Conservatism Increases Suicide

Postby Sarvis » Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:43 pm

http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20 ... 0508?tc=ar

I actually find it completely unsurprising. Conservatism is all about everyone being uniform and following the same rules, having the same goals, and believing the same things. Anyone who doesn't think the same is going to be more likely to be depressed as they attempt to hide who they are and conform to those around them or risk being ostracized from the community.
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Re: Conservatism Increases Suicide

Postby kiryan » Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:25 pm

Not surprising at all... few people have the courage to go against the flow. Those who try without the necessary mental strength are crushed.

However, does that mean the flow should change so a few people don't have to feel bad about themselves? I don't think so.
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Re: Conservatism Increases Suicide

Postby Sarvis » Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:30 pm

How do you justify people dying because you think everyone should live the way you do? How is that different from Muslims bombing you because you want to live differently than they do?
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Re: Conservatism Increases Suicide

Postby kiryan » Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:39 pm

Its not surprising you can't see the difference. The difference is choice.

You choose to kill yourself vs someone chooses to kill you because you don't conform.

I believe in personal responsibility, if you kill yourself because your sad someone or everyone thinks your making the wrong choices, that is your damage. You're choosing to swim upstream despite everyone telling you its stupid, you get tired and drown, wow big surprise, not my fault you can't listen to the obvious.
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Re: Conservatism Increases Suicide

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:49 pm

How do you define 'conservatism'? It seems quite broad to be making any objective observations.
Sarvis wrote:Conservatism is all about everyone being uniform and following the same rules, having the same goals, and believing the same things.

Full of shit as usual.
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Re: Conservatism Increases Suicide

Postby kiryan » Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:52 pm

and yes I'd prefer that folks not get to the point where they feel like they need to commit suicide, but if that means we have to show support for everyone else's crazy ideas and alternative life styles to keep them from killing themselves, then that's just too bad.

Its funny how liberals like to think of themselves as open minded, but aren't at all. I mean do they have an open mind regarding smoking, oil drilling, lumber production, coal production, pro life, guns, hunting, free speech, religion, sex ed? No not at all cuz those are unequivocally wrong positions held by ignorant people. No they only have open minds when it comes to their causes MJ, alternative orientations and life styles.
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Re: Conservatism Increases Suicide

Postby kiryan » Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:00 pm

and lastly, its a sad commentary on conservatives / religious people that attack people instead of behaviors because a Christian should be accepting of all people gay or transgender and disapproving of the sinful behavior.

also a sad commentary on these mentally damaged people who have to kill themselves because no one likes them.
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Re: Conservatism Increases Suicide

Postby Sarvis » Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:11 pm

kiryan wrote:and yes I'd prefer that folks not get to the point where they feel like they need to commit suicide, but if that means we have to show support for everyone else's crazy ideas and alternative life styles to keep them from killing themselves, then that's just too bad.


You don't have to support something, you just have to accept it. For instance, I don't support organized religion... but unless you're actively trying to force it on me I don't give a shit. (Hint: Christians are constantly trying to get laws passed to support their beliefs, and are therefore forcing their beliefs on me.)

Its funny how liberals like to think of themselves as open minded, but aren't at all.


Your definition of "open minded" just happens to be "believes what Kiryan believes." Exactly the attitude that leads to teen suicide, in fact.


I mean do they have an open mind regarding smoking, oil drilling, lumber production, coal production, pro life, guns, hunting, free speech, religion, sex ed?



1) smoking: Fine as long as you aren't affecting others
2) Oil drilling: Fine as long as you aren't affecting others (which is impossible)
3) lumber: fine as long as you aren't affecting others (no issue with tree farms, big issue with destroying rain forests which affects the entire planet as well as indiginous people/animals who don't even get a say)
4) coal production: fine as long as you aren't affecting others (which it does)
5) pro-life: Our stance on "pro-life" is that everyone should choose for themself. If you want to be pro-life, then go for it. I would probably choose that too, in fact. Open-mindedness means NOT choosing for others.
6) guns: I support gun ownership, but think people should be responsible with guns
7) free speech: I support free speech, but think people should exercise responsibility in what they say
8) religion: believe whatever the hell you want, just don't lobby to get meat sales banned on Friday's during lent, or try to force my kids to believe what you do in school
9) sex-ed: I believe in teaching kids what they need to know and then letting them make informed decisions

Where, exactly, is there a lack of open-mindedness? The only thing I care about is NOT forcing consequences, choices of beliefs on others. Believe what you want, do what you want, just leave ME out of it. Smoke until you die: fine. Blow smoke in my face? We have a problem. I chose not to smoke, you shouldn't override my choice.

Pro-life vs. pro-choice is the epitome of closed-minded vs. open-minded. You want to make the choice for everyone in America based on your beliefs. You have no room for anyone the beliefs of anyone else. Your mind is completely and utterly closed on the subject. I believe, frankly, that I don't know and I can't decide for someone else. My mind is open in that I'll let them decide for themselves.


No not at all cuz those are unequivocally wrong positions held by ignorant people. No they only have open minds when it comes to their causes MJ, alternative orientations and life styles.


Frankly, the point is that you create an environment that breeds death simply because you can not leave other people be. You need to force them to think like you, while liberals don't want to be forced to think like other people. Uniformity is all you really care about, above freedom, above life. You call us socialists, but when push comes to shove you want to force everyone to do what you do, and think what you think. If someone dies because they don't think like you, it's a good thing.

To me that is utter, complete Evil.
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Re: Conservatism Increases Suicide

Postby Sarvis » Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:14 pm

kiryan wrote:and lastly, its a sad commentary on conservatives / religious people that attack people instead of behaviors because a Christian should be accepting of all people gay or transgender and disapproving of the sinful behavior.

also a sad commentary on these mentally damaged people who have to kill themselves because no one likes them.


Pure mental equivocation. You can't separate a person from his behavior. There is no real difference between condemning everything a person does and condemning the person, except that you feel better about it. Drive someone to suicide, then cry because you thought you were being his friend every time you said "it's disgusting that you..."
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Re: Conservatism Increases Suicide

Postby kiryan » Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:21 pm

IC.

So when Geitner and Rangel didn't pay their taxes... how did you separate those actions from who they are without this "pure mental equivocation"?
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Re: Conservatism Increases Suicide

Postby Sarvis » Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:44 pm

kiryan wrote:IC.

So when Geitner and Rangel didn't pay their taxes... how did you separate those actions from who they are without this "pure mental equivocation"?


Well for one I don't know who they are. They should have paid their taxes, and they are probably bad people on some level because they didn't put in their fair share towards our society. Further, and you may have noticed this was a big point in my previous post, not paying their taxes has a negative affect on others. You can't say the same for two guys having sex. (Two women having sex is purely beneficial to them and all witnesses as long as they are hot, of course.)
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Re: Conservatism Increases Suicide

Postby kiryan » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:18 pm

Treasury secretary, you know the guy responsible for all the money and who does and doesn't get bailouts, and a very senior democrat congressman
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Re: Conservatism Increases Suicide

Postby Sarvis » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:36 pm

kiryan wrote:Treasury secretary, you know the guy responsible for all the money and who does and doesn't get bailouts, and a very senior democrat congressman


Ah, so you were expecting me to leap to his defense because he's on "my side" then? He chose to do something that harms others, an action I'm fully in support of vilifying. Again, that's different than a person wanting to be an artist or consentually fuck a man.
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Re: Conservatism Increases Suicide

Postby kiryan » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:33 pm

Your side already equivocated away his deeds. I didn't expect you to respond at all, it was just a jab at liberal hipocrisy.
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Re: Conservatism Increases Suicide

Postby Sarvis » Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:32 pm

If you say so. Part of your problem is a complete inability to differentiate between an individual and a group. I'm a hypocrite because someone else "equivocated away" Geitner's actions. By the same token you can't understand someone thinking differently than you. Perhaps you think that if a guy you know is gay, you might also be gay since there are no individuals.

Just a theory, anyway.

Point is that you equivocate away things like not caring if people die because of your intolerance and inability to accept someone doing something different from you. You're comparing a criminal action like avoiding taxes to two people being in love. You find some need to equivocate calling love disgusting, so you seek to interpret "liberal" actions in the same framework in which you interpret your own. The reality is Geitner is a criminal, while someone like Tyler Clementi broke no laws and hurt no one.
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Re: Conservatism Increases Suicide

Postby kiryan » Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:45 pm

right... i don't have any ability to differentiate between an individual and a group. Aren't you the one supporting the position that kids are going to have sex and there is nothing we can do about it? and not only can i understand people thinking differently from me, I actually know why. Liberals are the ones who just blast and Americans in general for being stupid unable to understand what you're saying.

No sarvis, you still don't get it. If I kill you, I am responsible for that action. If you get sad and kill yourself because I don't like you, that's your problem. I can't be responsible for making you happy.

PLEASE tell me that I am responsible for making you and everyone else in the world happy so I can know that you are completely bonkers.

You don't have a right to my approval, support or kind words... If you want to be different, than go for it and accept the results. Don't conduct yourself in a manner different than everyone else and expect us to treat you the same. Its pure idiocy.
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Re: Conservatism Increases Suicide

Postby Sarvis » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:04 am

kiryan wrote:right... i don't have any ability to differentiate between an individual and a group. Aren't you the one supporting the position that kids are going to have sex and there is nothing we can do about it?


No, see? You've read dozens of my posts and still can't even repeat my stance correctly. You're incapable of understanding someone that thinks differently than you. You've labeled me, called me names, and never miss a chance to group me in with "Liberals" even when my stance differs from your perceptions. To you there is no difference between Ragorn, Kifle, me and the Liberal-Controlled-Media. Any time you see something you don't like in the media, you come back and expect us to share exactly the same opinion and you never get it when we explain how our views differ. You think I, personally, equivocated Geitner's behavior becuase you saw another liberal do it somewhere so I must think the same, right? NO. Stop that shit.

Liberals are individuals. We're the towns where people AREN'T killing themselves because we allow and even encourage different viewpoints. We don't ostracize a straight person for being friends with a gay person. We don't even ostracize conservatives. On the other side of the coin, I know people who have lost jobs for not being the right kind of Christian! I know Christians who won't go to work on Ash Wednesday because they've been fired for being the only person without ashes on their forhead.

No sarvis, you still don't get it. If I kill you, I am responsible for that action. If you get sad and kill yourself because I don't like you, that's your problem. I can't be responsible for making you happy.


Right. I get it, nothing you say can ever hurt another person. Right? Do you have any fucking idea what it would be like to be ostracized by an entire community? To have no friends? No one to turn to if you need advice or comfort? We are not a species of loners. A person with no friends is already partly dead, and to do that to someone because they don't think the same way you do is Evil.

PLEASE tell me that I am responsible for making you and everyone else in the world happy so I can know that you are completely bonkers.


Do unto others? No, you aren't responsible. But if you want people to act in ways that make you happy or more comfortable, shouldn't you do the same? And there's a difference between doing everything you can to make someone happy and simply treating them like a human being.

What does your religion teach you about hating people, exactly? About how you should treat them? Does the voice in your head actually tell you to treat people like shit? To bully them and hurt them emotionally?


You don't have a right to my approval, support or kind words... If you want to be different, than go for it and accept the results. Don't conduct yourself in a manner different than everyone else and expect us to treat you the same. Its pure idiocy.


Big talk from the guy who's constantly whining about how Christians are treated by liberals. Shouldn't you just accept the consequences of being a cultist?
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Re: Conservatism Increases Suicide

Postby flib » Tue Apr 19, 2011 10:09 pm

silly non objective left wing slander :P I'm not even republican.. it's obvious just by what the article says.

when they lived in counties less supportive of gays and with relatively few Democrats. A high proportion of Democrats was a measure used as a proxy for a more liberal environment.

The research focused only on the state of Oregon.

How can you make a total judgement off of one state? It's slanted.. there isn't even a counter viewpoint..
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Re: Conservatism Increases Suicide

Postby Adriorn Darkcloak » Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:09 am

Sarvis wrote:Pro-life vs. pro-choice is the epitome of closed-minded vs. open-minded. You want to make the choice for everyone in America based on your beliefs. You have no room for anyone the beliefs of anyone else. Your mind is completely and utterly closed on the subject. I believe, frankly, that I don't know and I can't decide for someone else. My mind is open in that I'll let them decide for themselves.


Sarvis, just a point of clarification on what you said. The fetus, regardless of its age, is a living human being. Abortion, at any stage, means killing a human being. It means denigrating the "humanity" behind humanity to a number, a month. It is murder. This has nothing to do with letting people choose or not, unless, by that definition, we are close-minded for not letting women kill their husbands when it becomes burdensome having them around. Etc.

The wording behind abortion is switched to being about choice. Murder is a violation of choice, of liberty. So yes:

To me that is utter, complete Evil.


Now, if you want to argue about, or criticize, pro-lifers, use the "it's not a human being yet" argument, as at least it might lend itself more to "scientific" definitions. Choice has nothing to do with the abortion issue, none. It's either murder, or non-living tissue.

Just a friendly retort and clarification, nothing argumentative.
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Re: Conservatism Increases Suicide

Postby Sarvis » Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:14 am

That's just it. You believe it's a human, and others don't. You want to make that choice for everyone.

Like I said, I'd never want my baby aborted... but I can see the other argument and understand it's not my decision to make.
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Re: Conservatism Increases Suicide

Postby Teflor Lyorian » Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:20 pm

For most Americans, the "tissue ball"/human being line is crossed once the fetus starts looking like a person around the latter half of the second trimester.

Hilarious that it all comes down to looks, like everything else.
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Re: Conservatism Increases Suicide

Postby kiryan » Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:11 pm

hillarious and close minded.

That's just it. You believe it's a human, and others don't. You want to make that choice for everyone.


That's just it. You believe men and women are equal, and others don't. You want to make that choice for everyone.
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Re: Conservatism Increases Suicide

Postby Sarvis » Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:28 pm

:roll:
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