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I imagine Fox News will be an avalanche of heartfelt apologies today, as their anchors and pundits express their deep regret over challenging the birthplace of the President of the United States of America.

Nothing to apologize for here. I told everyone I knew that if Hawaii was issuing a certified transcript of the president's birth certificate, then so long as the 'full faith and credit' clause of the constitution is in effect, the president is a natural born citizen of the US, end of story. I'm quite happy that this came out for political reasons as well - the last thing the Republicans would need is some quack like Donald Trump getting the nomination and then alienating more than half the electorate with his wackjob theories. Though now the douche is spinning it like he is proud that he 'got obama to release his birth certificate'.

Sorry, why apologize for demanding the truth from a leader that lives and rules from an ivory tower? It's taken 2 years for this out-of-touch leader to respond to the people - Obama mistakenly believed that the President of the United States only serves the people that voted for him.

I hope this is an indication that he has realized the terrible truth of his tyranny and his blatant service to the part and not the whole. Obama should apologize for having taken so long.

Your tears are delicious. Keep crying them.

Speaking of crying, Fox News is absolutely shitting the bed today.

Corth... I don't like your answer because it feels inconsistent to me with your general distrust of government. How do you distrust government in most areas then say well Hawaii said he's a citizen so he is one despite the lack of transparency on the issue?

Legally speaking sure, he's a citizen cuz they said so... but then again, legally speaking dead people have been issued credit cards and voted... Its legal until someone discovers the fraud/holes in the system. I want to say there are about 50k children "born" in Texas because hispanic speaking "nurse midwives" with no certification (law had something to do with respecting cultural traditions in child birth) said they were born in Texas. Sometimes these records of birth were submitted months and years after the children were born, but legally speaking they're all citizens because 1 person with an agenda and profit motive in an unregulated field said they were born here... Do you trust that every single one of those kids was born in America too? I'm pretty sure at least one of those was fraudulent.

There is an interview of his Kenyan grandmother saying Obama was born in Kenya and then a relative interrupting her, correcting her and basically shutting her up. I never thought there was conclusive proof he was or was not a citizen although I tended to think he probably was one.

So I'm with Teflor on this one.

Not releasing his original full form birth certificate was ridiculous when questions about his citizenship abounded. It was arrogant and it was used and allowed to go on so long for political reasons. For a president who campaigned on transparency and an end to the games, it was ridiculous.

Trump, as well as many others, articulate the problem well, if there is nothing to hide then release it. I have no problem with him claiming victory here either. The only question is why did they release it...

A) to make trump look stupid after he said just a few days ago the birth certificate is missing
B) because 33% of Americans didn't think he was born in America (how much higher do you want that # to go and do you really want to chance that it reaches a critical mass? I mean thats 33% of the electorate out the door although they wouldn't have voted for him in the first place).

so yea, not apologizing for being "wrong" about Obama not being a US Citizen. Course, I never made that claim, but even if I had, I'd only feel bad that ultimately I was wrong.

Nevermind the fact that the majority of Republicans indicated in a CNN poll that they believed Obama was born in the United States.

I love the squirming :) It's very enjoyable to watch Republicans engage in serious cognitive dissonance today. They WANT SO BADLY to cling to the idea that Obama isn't a natural born citizen, but it's impossible for the rational mind to entertain such an idea. So begins the gnashing and twisting... the contrived scenarios, the desperate desire to doubt, the deflection of blame, the refusal to come to grips with objective fact. The strained attempts to save face by condemning Obama for whatever ficticious breach of ethics they can invent on the spot.

It's so awesome. Nothing a Republican says today can be taken seriously (even less so than any other day). It's all just desperation in the face of defeat. All the fake arguments, the invented indignation, all the backpedaling. I'm basking in it, can you tell? It warms me.

I kinda feel bad for Trump though. For a minute there, he actually thought he had a chance.

kiryan wrote:Corth... I don't like your answer because it feels inconsistent to me with your general distrust of government. How do you distrust government in most areas then say well Hawaii said he's a citizen so he is one despite the lack of transparency on the issue?

Wow... really?

Ragorn wrote:I love the squirming :) It's very enjoyable to watch Republicans engage in serious cognitive dissonance today. They WANT SO BADLY to cling to the idea that Obama isn't a natural born citizen, but it's impossible for the rational mind to entertain such an idea. So begins the gnashing and twisting... the contrived scenarios, the desperate desire to doubt, the deflection of blame, the refusal to come to grips with objective fact. The strained attempts to save face by condemning Obama for whatever ficticious breach of ethics they can invent on the spot.

It's so awesome. Nothing a Republican says today can be taken seriously (even less so than any other day). It's all just desperation in the face of defeat. All the fake arguments, the invented indignation, all the backpedaling. I'm basking in it, can you tell? It warms me.

I kinda feel bad for Trump though. For a minute there, he actually thought he had a chance.

There wasn't a birther on this forum. What kind of self-deluded trip are you on?

In ragorn's defense I do generally blame the liberals on this forum for every liberal view point or at least expect them to defend! Turn about is fair play.

kiryan wrote:In ragorn's defense I do generally blame the liberals on this forum for every liberal view point or at least expect them to defend! Turn about is fair play.

Yeah, why do you do that again?

kiryan wrote:Corth... I don't like your answer because it feels inconsistent to me with your general distrust of government. How do you distrust government in most areas then say well Hawaii said he's a citizen so he is one despite the lack of transparency on the issue?

I don't distrust government in the way you are implying. I am in favor of limited government, meaning I don't think that government should involve itself in a lot of things that it chooses to involve itself in. However, issuing a Certificate of Birth is one thing that is squarely and appropriately within the jurisdiction of a state government. In my professional capacity I have had the opportunity, among other things, to handle a few legal name changes. In the case of a natural born citizen the local courts require a certified transcript of birth - basically what Obama produced a few years ago. This document, as far as the courts are concerned, is sufficient proof of birth. In fact, the courts MUST give credence to the veracity of such a certificate per the Full Faith and Credit clause of the Constitution. So from my perspective, if whatever Hawaiian regulatory agency which handles the issuing of such Certificates saw fit to issue one, from a legal perspective the question of Obama's birth was answered. The state unequivocally and officially represented that Obama was born there, and that was always good enough for me, regardless of whatever doubts were raised.

This whole matter ends up being one of those 'teachable moments'. The republicans should focus like a laser beam on why Obama is a lousy president. Anything else, including this birth certificate conspiracy movement, deflects from the main point.

Lesson not learned, Corth. Now they are questioning his school records: http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011 ... -video.php

As an aside - now that the birther issue is more or less resolved, I noticed Trump demanding that Obama produce his school records. While under no circumstances would I like to see this become the next big conspiracy theory - argh - I have to say it is indeed a much more INTERESTING subject.

The sheer improbability of Obama's story is mind boggling. A multiracial baby in 1961 way before that sort of thing became even partially acceptable. And they gave him an African name to boot. The father leaves them and he is raised in a single parent household well before that sort of thing became fashionable. Apparently he was a troubled child, had drug problems, academic problems etc... and yet somehow ends up at Harvard Law. But doesn't just end up there.. he becomes Editor in Chief of the Law Review. Which is like saying he is THE #1 law student in the entire country. Top spot at the top school. But instead of getting a job for a few hundred thousand dollars a year in the private sector, he decides to become a 'community organizer' which is a much lower pay scale. Who would do that? And somehow... somehow... he parlays that into President of the freaking USA in his late 40's.... despite the name, the race, and everything else.

I have to say I would absolutely love to see his academic records. I want to see how he went from troubled adolescent to #1 law student in the country. The transformation just boggles my mind.

Heh Sarvis, you beat me to it. Agreed. :)

Corth... with all the screwups, the influence peddling and politicking, the waste and bureaucracy that occurs in local, state and federal government... you don't distrust government? How many social security cards have been issued for dead people? How many prisoners filed fake tax forms and got paid (its a lot). How many false arrests and prosecutions? Crooked immigration, DEA, homeland security agents?

I agree that they should be and do have the power to determine who are citizens... but to trust they did it right.. sorry my faith is not that blind with the various charges. I mean just 25 years ago they were telling me its not exercise if you didn't get your heart rate to 180, now walking around the mall is exercise. Last year they were telling us the oil spill was small, limited, a few thousand barrels of oil a day then a few months later its the biggest spill of all time?

Yes there is corruption at the local level. But until we change the constitution which says that the States must respect the "public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other state." " to "Sometimes we'll respect the public acts, records, etc., of every other state", then Hawaii's determination -must- be honored by every other state. According to the law of the land, Obama was born in Hawaii, period.

Teflor Lyorian wrote:Sorry, why apologize for demanding the truth from a leader that lives and rules from an ivory tower? It's taken 8 years for this out-of-touch leader to respond to the people - Bush, the Republican Traitor, mistakenly believed that the President of the United States only serves the people that voted for him.

I hope this is an indication that he has realized the terrible truth of his tyranny and his blatant service to the part and not the whole. Bush should apologize for having taken so long.

Fixed your typos.

torkur wrote:

Teflor Lyorian wrote:Sorry, why apologize for demanding the truth from a leader that lives and rules from an ivory tower? It's taken 8 years for this out-of-touch leader to respond to the people - Bush, the Republican Traitor, mistakenly believed that the President of the United States only serves the people that voted for him.

I hope this is an indication that he has realized the terrible truth of his tyranny and his blatant service to the part and not the whole. Bush should apologize for having taken so long.

Fixed your typos.

Bush bashing gets you nowhere, Torkur.