Ogre Agility
Ogre Agility
This subject has been on my mind for quite some time now. Ogre agility just seems set way too low. I understand that ogres should be less agile than other races.. but I think the contrast there is just a bit overdone. Since all high level warriors rely on scales and stones to tank.. and these only protect against non-critical attacks.. it renders ogre warriors about useless as a fully functional warrior tank. Even if agility was changed a bit in thier favor they still would not be the prefered choice over trolls, dwarves, duergar.. but at least they would have a better chance of not get owned when rescuing people in... especially vs. giants or the like with higher crit rates. The natural strength stat is nice.. but this doesn't justify thier lopsided vulnerability to take damage. The few extra hp they get is also not any compensation. I'm just wondering if this could be looked at and improved slightly. Size, strength, and a few extra hp should not justify the complete lack of agility and tankability thereof.
.
Strength is nothing if mobs half your size can crit you quite regularly. Just doesn't seem to fit... maybe if the hitpoint bonus was much more significant that would compensate as well. I'm just not seeing how ogres being the biggest strongest race of the mud can get so savagely beaten with stone and scale on like no other warrior.
Question! err Questions!
Do ogres take damage as large sized creatures? Does this affect how much crit damage they take? Are they geometrically taking more damage then say.. a human?
How about from other large sized creatures? Or Gigantic/larger then ogre sized stuff?
I never understood why a sword could do more dice damage against a larger opponent then a smaller. You'd think size/weight of your weapon compared to your target would mean you'd do more against smaller opponents then larger. Right? If my sword is half the size of your body, and I HIT you with it, it's gonna cut you in half! If my sword is more like a dagger compared to how big you are, why would you take more damage from it?
Maybe ogres should just take less damage in general?
Or just give em more hps to compensate?
It's a shame really how they drop like rocks once they become a tank. Yes, I'm aware that ogres wielding a Gythka and +max_str gear are insane with the para proc, but not every ogre has that luxury. Plus, who'd you rather take? An ogre who procs para randomly, or Nilan who can para/blind/do insanely more damage and doesn't even bid on eq at the end of the zone?!?
I'll take a Stabby plz! He tanks better too! :D
Yes that's a fair comparison cuz most of the ogres wielding gythkas are stacked in EQ like Nilan is so :P
-LL :wink:
Do ogres take damage as large sized creatures? Does this affect how much crit damage they take? Are they geometrically taking more damage then say.. a human?
How about from other large sized creatures? Or Gigantic/larger then ogre sized stuff?
I never understood why a sword could do more dice damage against a larger opponent then a smaller. You'd think size/weight of your weapon compared to your target would mean you'd do more against smaller opponents then larger. Right? If my sword is half the size of your body, and I HIT you with it, it's gonna cut you in half! If my sword is more like a dagger compared to how big you are, why would you take more damage from it?
Maybe ogres should just take less damage in general?
Or just give em more hps to compensate?
It's a shame really how they drop like rocks once they become a tank. Yes, I'm aware that ogres wielding a Gythka and +max_str gear are insane with the para proc, but not every ogre has that luxury. Plus, who'd you rather take? An ogre who procs para randomly, or Nilan who can para/blind/do insanely more damage and doesn't even bid on eq at the end of the zone?!?
I'll take a Stabby plz! He tanks better too! :D
Yes that's a fair comparison cuz most of the ogres wielding gythkas are stacked in EQ like Nilan is so :P
-LL :wink:
-
Delmair Aamoren
- Sojourner
- Posts: 604
- Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 5:01 am
- Location: Portland, OR, USA
- Contact:
My thought is this. Yes ogres might not be as good as trolls at tanking, but they don't get the vulnerability to fire! Halflings and Gnomes suck as tanks ( in my opinion) not getting a good strength OR con, and a decent bonus in dex/agi, yet i still wouldn't see one as functional as a tank as say a dwarf or a barbarian, perhaps as good as a human or an elf. Nothing ever said ogres have to be the best tank in the game. Having the highest strength and con, makes sense, but when you're as easy to hit as the broad side of a barn....
Nobody ever said life would be fair. Be an ogre tank because it's different, not because it's the best.
Nobody ever said life would be fair. Be an ogre tank because it's different, not because it's the best.
Im not askin to be the best tank race in the game though it would be nice to A. Have more hps because I get hit WAY more then a troll does or B. Higher the AGi notch a bit for the same reason. Ogres as is may have the highest con notch in the game but its not that much over trolls.. Why would you wanna play a race that gets 50-100hps more then a troll but gets slammed every round without regen when you can play a troll that hardly gets touched and regens like a madman on pcp? So for being so much bigger then a troll our hps really dont show it. And Delmair that Fire situation rarely occurs from the zonage I have been on and when fire does come along trolls are usually spelled up enough to laugh at it.
Just my 2 pieces of cents though.
Just my 2 pieces of cents though.
Last edited by Asup on Tue Apr 08, 2003 1:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
.
I'll take the vulnerablity to fire hands down. With my ogre shaman I've died a few times just to riposte crits alone. We are talking like 600+ damage. Given that is with -10 ac and not in tank gear.. but if I did that I'd have 400 hp. Clouds don't really become an issue for trolls until there are multiple casters casting them. To summarize... crits are way more threatening than clouds to any tank.
I really dont see a need to upgrade ogres. They aren't meant to be tanks they're 2h monsters. they get the highest str notch and highest con notch.
go get a gythka if u wanna complain about tanking. give it two rounds and you'll have the mob para'd. oh yea aside from that. they're the only class that can be !fail(or damn close to) bash at 50 with a like wt10 shield.
go get a gythka if u wanna complain about tanking. give it two rounds and you'll have the mob para'd. oh yea aside from that. they're the only class that can be !fail(or damn close to) bash at 50 with a like wt10 shield.
Dornax says 'And for the right amount of information ye might get some nookie out of Nokie..'
Nokie wiggles his bottom.
Teba tells you 'let me do my job you volo twinker!'
Bobidibble GCC: 'yeah i admit gura is a better warrior then i am, no shame in it... perhaps someday i shall be as pimp'
Nokie wiggles his bottom.
Teba tells you 'let me do my job you volo twinker!'
Bobidibble GCC: 'yeah i admit gura is a better warrior then i am, no shame in it... perhaps someday i shall be as pimp'
.
Warrior damage at any rate is a laughable affair. Why? Cuz they have tank skills and are tanks. No ogre warrior is gunna be doing as much damage as a rogue with even half the +dam... and 3 - 8 crits a fight will not change that. I am not saying to make them tank better than trolls. But it would be nice if they could tank good enough to not be laughed at when someone wants to make them the main tank. Thanks for considering it Shevy.
Birile wrote:Stupid question: how do ogre warriors stack up to goodrace warriors? I was under the impression tha troll warriors were eons ahead of most other races of warriors. Are we comparing ogres to just trolls or to all races in general?
I personally was comparing them to ALL races. There are evils who play Yuan-ti warriors, and Duergar warriors, and for a little here were a couple Drow warriors.
all warrior > ogre warrior (in tanking department)
Yes I'm talking about Halfling warriors too. I had the pleasure to lead a zone with one a few weeks back, and he was marvelous. Worked his cute little buns off! Hi Rond! :wink:
Yes, I think Ogres (being bigger) should be easier to hit, but I don't think they should be easier to hurt.
Sorry, but Andre the Giant would take a lot more pounding to drop then Willow.
-LL
Ogre Warriors
I grouped with many races but whenever there was an ogre,
a warrior that was, could never tank!
well he could literally but as an enchanter I couldn't get enogh stone skin
spells for even one lousy mob!
The settings for ogre is set to hard. I understand that but
I believe there should be some advantages in battle for such difficult race
it's a MUST
a warrior that was, could never tank!
well he could literally but as an enchanter I couldn't get enogh stone skin
spells for even one lousy mob!
The settings for ogre is set to hard. I understand that but
I believe there should be some advantages in battle for such difficult race
it's a MUST
Ogres do need adjustment (imho)
no point in bringing an ogre to zone
invoker/rogues do more damage
they rescue, they die
they can't do anything solo
lakers rock
why there no ogres arround?
they only get 50 more hps than trolls at 50th = 1/4th of a critical and +hps eq vastly superior to 50 hps
gura, not all ogres can get gythka.. its like saying give rogue a ruby hilt dagger and they rock
agility upgrade would be most helpful, con upgrade makes most sense
mebbe an innate of ogre-skin or something so criticals don't hurt them as bad or they get criticalled less
asup was telling me how a dire and him were messing around in arena and the dire was doing same damage meleee as him: omfg lame
i seriously would rather have a halfling tank then ogre tank
i seriously would pick any other race to tank other than ogre? but isn't the definition of ogre a "tank"?
oh not to mention cuz' they're so stupid their skillz are hard to raise
lakers
invoker/rogues do more damage
they rescue, they die
they can't do anything solo
lakers rock
why there no ogres arround?
they only get 50 more hps than trolls at 50th = 1/4th of a critical and +hps eq vastly superior to 50 hps
gura, not all ogres can get gythka.. its like saying give rogue a ruby hilt dagger and they rock
agility upgrade would be most helpful, con upgrade makes most sense
mebbe an innate of ogre-skin or something so criticals don't hurt them as bad or they get criticalled less
asup was telling me how a dire and him were messing around in arena and the dire was doing same damage meleee as him: omfg lame
i seriously would rather have a halfling tank then ogre tank
i seriously would pick any other race to tank other than ogre? but isn't the definition of ogre a "tank"?
oh not to mention cuz' they're so stupid their skillz are hard to raise
lakers
-
Burmadapig
- Sojourner
- Posts: 164
- Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2003 6:56 pm
- Location: New Orleans
- Contact:
Since ogres have massive strength, why not let them dual 2h weapons? Didn't they used to be able to do that a few wipes ago.
Stirring the pot as usual, but seriously.
They do need some minor tweaking to make them not so substandard a tank. Even just to make them as competent as doogers IMHO, which they should be by their sheer size and strength.
Stirring the pot as usual, but seriously.
They do need some minor tweaking to make them not so substandard a tank. Even just to make them as competent as doogers IMHO, which they should be by their sheer size and strength.
Its no just you guys with connection problems now. I'm getting horrible ping times, due to what looks like network congestion going through the attbb routers. Ping times are currently 600ms *groan*
Last time it was like this it took a couple weeks to get it fixed, and severalls calls through tech support until I got transfered to a higher level tech who realized there actually was a problem.
Last time it was like this it took a couple weeks to get it fixed, and severalls calls through tech support until I got transfered to a higher level tech who realized there actually was a problem.
Return to “S3 Gameplay Discussion Archive”
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests