Balancing Acheron

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Kegor
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Balancing Acheron

Postby Kegor » Sun Jul 22, 2001 2:19 pm

I was messing around in Acheron the other day testing some stuff since i was not one of the people to be leveled in alpha for high level testing. I think there are some serious balance problems there...

- SPELL DAMAGE -

I think this should be changed to the way it is in the game. Melee damage was not downgraded. Weapon procs were not downgraded. Psionic damage was not downgraded. Therefore spell damage should not be downgraded. I think force missiles should do thier normal average damage of around 700-1100 just like in the game. Sure this would kill people if I happen to land one. But any prepared person will quickly bash/shieldpunch/trip/pforce/power word stun me in the time it takes me to cast it. That way I would at least stand a chance of unleashing some offensive damage.

I don't think any aspects Acheron should be different than they are in the mud. It just takes a lot away from spellcasters. Even if normal spell damage was returned I dont see many changes to the balance of power there. Rogues will still own.. closely followed by warriors and enchanters.

Please.. can something be done about this so casters can enjoy acheron too?

-Jaznolg
Cried when he saw 200 damage force missiles.
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Postby Zogur » Sun Jul 22, 2001 2:32 pm

I can agree with Jaz. He couldnt even kill me with it Image

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Postby Hamibugan Sinweaver » Mon Jul 23, 2001 5:30 am

Sorry Jaz but I disagree, disagree, DISAGREE. I think bringing the others down to that level is the answer.

Consider especially if it's a group in there and noone happens to be targetting you, but you're targetting me. Welp there goes the other sides cleric in ONE spell. If you look at this from a pkill aspect 200 is a pretty dam good damage spell.

Any level well equipped 50 invoker against a troll of the same. My moneys on the invoker if he's smart and the troll doesn't puss out.

I'd look at downing dam Psi's in there, not upping vokers.

Might as well change force missiles to assasinate in there if you're gonna give it 1100 damage. For GP what's your qc cast time on a force missile? Even at say 2*'s (I know nothing about force missiles) you get off one not only can you defeat 95% of the MUD you just stunned the other 5% and they are as good as dead.

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Postby Kegor » Mon Jul 23, 2001 1:04 pm

Actually Hami.. casting time on force missiles is anywhere from 6-3 *'s. It is actually very hard to land that spell. As is now it takes 3-5 casts of force missiles to kill a warrior depending on thier race/ss/magic ress. To get that spell casted on somebody they really hafta make a mistake in fighting me... there are plenty of ways to keep me from casting. Also to respond to the force missile assassinate comment... I would think assassinte would hit a lot more than a force missile would. I knew people were gunna whine about this topic... but you have to see that something is wrong here. If this is changed to normal spell damage I just _MIGHT_ be able to kill people in a group vs. group format. 1 on 1.. people just flee.. bash me... avoid my spell... I lose.. no matter if I stun them or not... cuz they can still flee and I can't get a spell off. Minute meteors yes.. but the way that is set up it is set to tickle damage. This really needs to be changed... you guys might get scared if you see 'Jaznolg starts casting an offensive spell..' but you will just have to keep your cool and dodge it bash me however you would do it with a mob... if you play your character right.. you will beat me... if you make a mistake... I win right away... this is the way it should be... like it or not.

-Jaznolg
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Postby Jegzed » Mon Jul 23, 2001 1:16 pm

Acheron bored me pretty quickly in Alpha.

I faced Thruar in 1v1 and he just spammed shieldpunch until I was dead. I couldn't do anything cause of the lag.
The fact that your spell gets "unmemmed" when your opponent flees while you cast is also a big unbalancing factor against casters.

Thats why I play Basternae when I want to pkill.

/Jegzed
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Postby Kegor » Mon Jul 23, 2001 1:21 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Hamibugan Sinweaver:<B>Consider especially if it's a group in there and noone happens to be targetting you, but you're targetting me. Welp there goes the other sides cleric in ONE spell. If you look at this from a pkill aspect 200 is a pretty dam good damage spell.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Force missile doesn't kill anybody the same level as me in one shot... or 10 levels below me for that matter... of ANY class. Also.. they probably wouldn't target me in a group battle because I can't kill anybody... they would be targeting the illithid first if they were smart and then go for me or the cleric. I think that if I were able to kill people in one spell and spell damage is the way it should be that invokers would be treated as any other offensive caster inside the mud... like the offensive threat that they are... as is now I'm a tickler with fancy ansi and fair casting times. This would definately change strategies making power word stun necessary (if I was shrunk). But all in all you could keep the threat at bay if you play your cards right... if not someone dies... mistakes kill people... it happens everyday. Accept it... especially in Acheron.

-Jaznolg
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Postby Kegor » Mon Jul 23, 2001 1:28 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jegzed:
<B>Acheron bored me pretty quickly in Alpha.

I faced Thruar in 1v1 and he just spammed shieldpunch until I was dead. I couldn't do anything cause of the lag.
The fact that your spell gets "unmemmed" when your opponent flees while you cast is also a big unbalancing factor against casters.

Thats why I play Basternae when I want to pkill.
/Jegzed</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well spell damage would help to balance enchanters there more too. Right now though... you can be quite a pest with PWB and major para combo... but you lack the spell damage to finish them off as a reward for your skill and/or thier mistake against you. Yet another reason why spell damage should be turned up to normal specs.

-Jaznolg
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Postby rylan » Mon Jul 23, 2001 1:45 pm

yeah, its kinda funny when I cast a full harm on someone in there and it only does like 100hps :P
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Postby Tilandal » Mon Jul 23, 2001 3:42 pm

I think the arena should be the same as it is in the game. Is it a bit unbalenced when your fighting 1 on 1? Sure but then again this realy isnt a 1v1 game. It will make for some interesting tactics during grop battles. IE hmm do I bash the tank, the basher, or the caster? Who should be nuked first the person dealing the damage or the person protecting them?
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Postby Kegor » Mon Jul 23, 2001 4:19 pm

Bottom line of my discussion... Spell casters of all kind are not able to use offensive spells. It wont accomplish anything... because spells are _way_ too weak. Every caster is transformed into a wuss when entering Acheron.
PLEASE fix it so we can kill people too.

-Jaznolg
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Postby Hamibugan Sinweaver » Mon Jul 23, 2001 10:59 pm

I'm not whining Jaz, I could really care less about the arena. But from pkill experience I think your idea is terribly unbalancing. Ok, so even at 3-6 stars you have terribly taken out a PC if it lands. Anything that can kill something that fast with the exception of an assassin is !balance. It's all strategy and knowing your opponent. If I had you in my group I'd give you a target order with weakest to strongest and put everything I had protecting you, you couldn't lose. The effects of shieldpunch would be the only thing I could possibly see keeping a level 50 invoker from taking out a level 50 troll that didn't flee. If you know how to play against him you can't lose.

Even on a STRAIT pkill MUD the uberest of all uber spells can only do at the max around 450-500hps damage and it's a level 51 spell.

I agree Psi's are to powerful, but don't up everything else, down them.

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That is all. Peace.
Hami

[This message has been edited by Hamibugan Sinweaver (edited 07-23-2001).]
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Postby Kegor » Tue Jul 24, 2001 12:36 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Hamibugan Sinweaver:
If you look at this from a pkill aspect 200 is a pretty dam good damage spell.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just can't leave this topic alone it seems...

With this comment here you made... I would like to point out that my level 33 rogue is doing about 400-700 with dual backstab. Do I think thats too much? No. It is how it is in the game... and I would expect spells to be no different. A lot harder to cast a spell on someone than it is to backstab.. so you will still be fearing the rogue. Don't piss your pants cuz invokers can possibly kill you.. guess what.. thats what they are best at!

-Jaznolg
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Postby Kegor » Tue Jul 24, 2001 12:44 am

Dude... you don't even know how hard it is to kill someone with a spell. People flee/bash me or whatever.. I've said this before. If I can actually do it... I want full damage and I want them dead... the fleeing bastards.


I would think you would even agree with me on this spell damage thing... in case you havent noticed your spells are ticklers too.. you don't think cleric spells should hurt people too? I saw Zipalodok dodge a bash from a warrior and cast blind on him... the only spell he got off after dying 4 straight times before that. Then he tries to kill him with offense and guess what? He cant do it.. cuz full harm is doing around 80 damage to a troll. That is ridiculous. I'm sorry but a blind level 44 warrior vs. a 47 level cleric.. who should win that one? Putting damage to full in the arena would fix this... am I the only sane person here?


-Jaznolg

[This message has been edited by Jaznolg (edited 07-23-2001).]
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Postby Yayaril » Tue Jul 24, 2001 1:33 am

My dog told me that you're the only sane one here, Jaz..


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Postby Hamibugan Sinweaver » Tue Jul 24, 2001 1:40 am

80-100 is perfectly reasonable damage for pkill.

I don't want to argue with you Jaz. I'm just disagreeing. Invokers should be able to kill me and alot of other things, I never denied that, but not at 700-1100 hps a spell.

I am in no way saying that Acheron is perfect right now, but setting everything to "in game" standards is not the answer.

Please Jaz go play high level on a pkill MUD and think about what you're saying.

*NO FLAME INTENDED*.......If you can't disable your opponent and kill him in a 2x2 room or avoid a bash from a troll using skills ANY class or race has what basis are you using as experience for a 1000 hp spell being ok?

Loves Jaz to death just disagrees Image

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Postby Sarvis » Tue Jul 24, 2001 2:03 am

In al fairness Hamibugan, on almost every pkill mud I've ever played spells were instantaneous and bashing didn't stop a mage from casting.

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Postby Hamibugan Sinweaver » Tue Jul 24, 2001 2:12 am

Never played one of those before. What the hell is the use in bash not interrupting a spell?
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Postby Kegor » Tue Jul 24, 2001 10:12 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Hamibugan Sinweaver:
<B>
*NO FLAME INTENDED*.......If you can't disable your opponent and kill him in a 2x2 room or avoid a bash from a troll using skills ANY class or race has what basis are you using as experience for a 1000 hp spell being ok?
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

First off I'm not even sure if full damage force missile would kill some of the non-troll races in one cast. Don't know how much spell save can help you. But I do know that it is damn near impossible to cast upper circle spells on people. 6th circle and up people have more than enuff time to flee or simply walk out of the room... set thier command line to shieldpunch / bash / stun / backstab me first. I just wish you could see things from my side of things. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO CAST FORCE MISSILE ON SOMEONE THAT KNOWS YOU ARE TRYING TO KILL THEM.

I am not saying that an invoker should be able to kill a warrior 1 on 1... full damage will not change this. I will still be abused all the same ways. But... this will at least give the invoker / necro / enchanter / cleric / conjurer / druid slight chance to kill someone if they happen to make a mistake in fighting them as a caster. When a warrior happens to miss a bash or shieldpunch while fighting a player caster they should suffer the conciquences. After all.. this is only the arena... a place to have fun and practice skills.

Full damage won't change much at all. You might just see people die by spells every now and again. What is so wrong about this?

-Jaznolg
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Postby Sarvis » Tue Jul 24, 2001 12:03 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Hamibugan Sinweaver:
Never played one of those before. What the hell is the use in bash not interrupting a spell?</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah... I tried to convince the imp of one MUD I immed on that bash was useless without stopping spells. Didn't work. *shrug*

As far as I know the only MUDS that implement that are the Sojourn derived ones.

The real problem here is that the MUD is _not_ balanced towards pkill. It's balanced towards group combat against mobs. This means several things:

1. Player hp is a lot lower than mob hp.
2. A mob spell does the same damage as a player spell.
3. For a player spell to be useful against mobs it has to do a lot more damage than players could withstand.
4. If spells do that much damage, the only way to keep a group alive more than a few rounds is to keep a casting mob bashed.
5. Because of this a warriors bash skill has to be very reliable.
6. Now when a warrior fights a mage in the arena, the warrior bash skill is still just as reliable. Because of this a mage can rarely get a spell off.

That is a problem... the question is how to fix it. Upping the spell damage won't help, because mages will still rarely get spells off. Perhaps make bash less reliable in Acheron than it is in the MUD. That would allow casters to get their spells off, and maybe get a kill if the warrior missed enough bashes... then you only gotta worry about fleeing. But that's just cheesy if you ask me... maybe do something to make it harder to flee in Acheron? I mean... give a message like:

"I thought you came here to fight, stop being such a wuss!"

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Postby Hamibugan Sinweaver » Tue Jul 24, 2001 3:46 pm

Jaz my good man, that is the hole point. You're not "sure".

Simple points being even at the damage I suggest an invoker can take a non-pussie ass troll hands down. If the voker knows what he is doing. I of course understand your frustration but I also understand what what you want means to a pkill environment. Christ I wish alot of things were different Jaz, but point being it's just too powerful bro, plain and simple. Down more, not up more the way I see it, sorry. Fact is I've had a shitload to drink in the last 6 hours but the idea is the same.

Speak from experience Jaz. Respected as you are you're speaking out of your realm I feel.



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Postby Tilandal » Tue Jul 24, 2001 3:55 pm

Fact is all casters get killed in arena buy all warriors and rogues. In alpha the most powerful class in arena was rogues followed closely by warriors. Casters were basicly lunch meat because rogues tripped them all the time and warriors bashed them to death. There is no competition. Even if you made magic missiles instant kill casters would still loose because they will never get off a spell. Let the invokers have thier damage, its not gonna make a difference especialy when ranged weapons come in doing 200+ a round while stunned and bashed.
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Postby Hamibugan Sinweaver » Tue Jul 24, 2001 4:30 pm

Guys, the WHOLE point of the arena is PKILL, PKILL=adapt and overcome, no caster knows how to avoid a bash? no caster knows how to avoid a trip? no tank knows how to protect their caster from a bash or trip? COME ON guys. Adapt before you scream change plz. Just because Tiamat spanks your silly ass over and over again, does it need to be changed? NO....adapt. Request a change as extreme as the ones mentioned with documented proof plz guys.

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Postby Tilandal » Tue Jul 24, 2001 4:36 pm

Enlighten us how would you avoid a bash or trip? From where I satnd you cant since the skill is an iterupt and can be done instantly at any time.
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Postby Nokie » Tue Jul 24, 2001 4:58 pm

Niremann had no problem owning my butt with ice shield and power word blind.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Tilandal:
Fact is all casters get killed in arena buy all warriors and rogues. In alpha the most powerful class in arena was rogues followed closely by warriors. Casters were basicly lunch meat because rogues tripped them all the time and warriors bashed them to death. There is no competition. Even if you made magic missiles instant kill casters would still loose because they will never get off a spell. Let the invokers have thier damage, its not gonna make a difference especialy when ranged weapons come in doing 200+ a round while stunned and bashed.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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Postby Hamibugan Sinweaver » Tue Jul 24, 2001 5:06 pm

Uhhh, kneel or recl on a warriors entry? If that doesn't work here change THAT, not give out a 1000 hp damage spell. Trip? Proper targetting, 1v1 againts trip? flee you're outmatched.
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Postby Galorion » Tue Jul 24, 2001 5:08 pm

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Uhhh, kneel or recl on a warriors entry? </font>


And this helps a caster how? You can't cast while kneeling or reclining, and you take more damage. Once the caster stands up, he just gets bashed then.

[This message has been edited by Galorion (edited 07-24-2001).]
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Postby Hamibugan Sinweaver » Tue Jul 24, 2001 5:13 pm

Lord....
Kneeling makes the warrior miss bash, he misses you stand and cast offense. Repeat as needed....Like shampoo.
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Postby Sarvis » Tue Jul 24, 2001 5:32 pm

Umm... so don't bash someone who's kneeling?

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Postby Hamibugan Sinweaver » Tue Jul 24, 2001 5:34 pm

I have 2 words for 50% of you play pkill, play pkill, play pkill. PLZ, if you're speaking without documented fact or prior experience you're hurting the MUD with unfounded suggestions.
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Postby Zrax » Tue Jul 24, 2001 5:38 pm

It would seem that realistically all abilities would have to be downgraded in the arena in order to be fair. These abilities were created for the intition of doing battle with many thousand hitpoint monsters and would have to be scaled accordingly for arena combat.
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Postby Sarvis » Tue Jul 24, 2001 5:46 pm

I'd love to fight you in pkill if you consistantly bash people who aren't standing Hamibugan. Face it... your "solution" is basically just telling casters to bash themselves and wait for the warrior to to bash him. I think a good many of us are a LOT brighter than that.

Zrax is right, like I said before. Everything needs to be toned down in the arena... including warrior skill success rates.

Oh yeah... and one last thing. Making suggestions for the improvement of the MUD doesn't hurt anything. Casters are unhappy with a small piece of the MUD, and have made a suggestion to fix it. Even if it's a bad suggestion it doesn't hurt anything. Increasing the spell damage may not be a good solution, but we should then be discussing better solutions instead of trying to convince everyone it's not a problem.

Sarvis

[This message has been edited by Sarvis (edited 07-24-2001).]
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Postby Tilandal » Tue Jul 24, 2001 5:53 pm

First off id like to say I forgot enchanters are often very powerful in arena if they are well prepared.

Secondly even if a warrior is stupid and tries to bash you while you are kneeling they are still gonna hit 90% of the times. When I played a warrior on soj2 a group of 3 warriors could keep a mob 8 levels higher then us from ever standing up. Kneeling wont do anything except make you unable to cast.

Third you said run away from someone who has trip since your outmatched. Um wasnt the point of downgrading damage to ballence things. If your so outmatched why downgrade it?
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Postby Nokie » Tue Jul 24, 2001 5:56 pm

Just to illustrate my point futher from an arena battle last night..

encounter #1:

<B>
be
Nireman makes a strange sound, as you place a thin dark dagger in his back.
You shiver from unnatural cold.
YIKES! Another hit like that, and you've had it!!
The poison on your weapon wears off.
As your poison takes effect, Nireman appears to go blind!
Nireman slumps to the ground.
Nireman makes a strange sound but is suddenly very silent, as you place a
straightback dirk in his back.
The world starts spinning, and your ears are ringing!
BRR! As you hit Nireman, deadly cold fills your bones..
With a final blow, you feel yourself falling to the ground.
Your soul leaves your body in the cold sleep of death...
</B>

encounter #2:

<B>
< 211h/439H 98v/98V >
<>
Nireman snaps into visibility.
< 211h/439H 98v/98V >
<>
Nireman completes his spell...
Nireman utters the words, 'saxzf xafe nore'
The world goes suddenly black!
You miss someone with your pierce.
< 211h/439H 98v/98V >
Someone misses you with his hit.
You miss someone with your pierce.
Someone dodges your futile attack.
You miss someone with your pierce.
< 212h/439H 98v/98V >
FLEE
You can't see a damn thing, you're blinded!
You escape northward!
</B>

For encounter #1:
If he's cold shielded, there isn't much I
can do but to remove my weapons and pray that I can keep him tripped for three RL minutes. Not going to happen.

For encounter #2:
I should have quaffed a detect invis potion, but realistically that spell is instantenous so all he needs is a split second to get it off and then I'm blinded for several minutes. Of that time he can have his way with me.

So either I really suck (prolly the case!) Or it's not a good idea to make such a blanket statement such as:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Tilandal:
Fact is all casters get killed in arena buy all warriors and rogues.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


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Nokie 'No you don't!! That belongs to me!' Quickfingers
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Postby Hamibugan Sinweaver » Tue Jul 24, 2001 5:56 pm

I'm not saying noones input is useless Sarvis, but I think I have the right to disagree, especially if it has basis, that's all. I'm agreeing that input is fine, but have some research behind it first is all I ask.

Noone is saying bash themselves, test it or something before you just assume I'm a moron plz.

I'm gonna stop commenting so I know I know how to smoke all your asses in the Arena cause you refus to listen. Image


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Postby Kegor » Tue Jul 24, 2001 11:11 pm

All of you guys are giving good imput here... maybe increasing spell damage is not the answer. I just can't imagine how hard it would be to downgrade skills, melee damage, procs, healing, and enchantments. Spell damage was the quick fix I was thinking of. Honestly if spell damage was increased I would not even use force missiles. Minute meteors would be the in thing for the cast time so maybe I could alternate power word stun and meteor back and forth and maybe kill someone like that if I could chase them fast enough. Someone made a good point about fleeing also.. that is out of control. Even while stunned people can flee.

But alas.. I know the real answer to make acheron fun and balance.. everyone roll a rogue and go at it... Image

-Jaznolg
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Postby Hamibugan Sinweaver » Wed Jul 25, 2001 9:38 am

I was VERY drunk when I made those last couple posts last nite, apologies Image

Casters bash themselves? wut? If I scan or see something I want to kill I'm charging in with bash already in the command line and hitting it as soon as I enter to get the element of surprise and keep the greasy little bastard there so I can beat on him. Thus when someone enters on me in the arena and it can bash me I'm gonna freakin kneel. Same as in combat. Since warriors here are so fond of bash triggers and that's the only way a warrior is gonna keep a caster in the room, he's gonna try and bash me as soon as I stand, well if I kneel as soon as he stands he misses AGAIN, kapiche? I stand my ass up and cast in his lag. Try it before you assume I'm a moron please.

Sarvis I am advocating the balancing of everything to a lower level.

If I ever get some decent levels I'd gladly oblige your challenge, perhaps a 4on4 of each sides choice? I'd bet the farm you'd get smoked.

I say run Tilandil because a caster against something that can trip is not gonna win. The whole point of pkill is that every single class/race combo is not supposed to be able to kill every other one. Can you imagine a level 50 Ogre getting smoked by a cleric? LAUGH all I can do is blind and silence him and be rather annoying, no way I'm bringing him down. If I couldn't get a blind off because he missed I'd run from a rogue in a hearbeat.
------------------
That is all. Peace.
Hami

[This message has been edited by Hamibugan Sinweaver (edited 07-25-2001).]
Klurg
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Postby Klurg » Wed Jul 25, 2001 10:24 am

Holy moses and jesus on three wheeled bike i can see most of u ever played a pkill mud similar to sojourn like duris or basternae..
I have yet to test this arena thing but honestly i wouldnt be playing here if i wanted to pkill.. Well anyhow im quite a experienced player when it comes to pkill...
We can take duris as an example....
In pkill Melee damage is reduced 4x so is spell damage... Bigby's do around 200 if u fail yer saving throw... Bashing is set to lag u more then it do here u cant instantly bash a target the sec it stands up again you would be able to get a quickchanted spell or the like off... Bashing is much more unreliable too I mean i hardly miss a bash once i hit 20 with a pbone shield that would really need a change. So down skills a bit is the way to go i believe. Adjust spell damage accordingly Invokers should do more damage then any other class IMHO assassinate is all fine and dandy... Another thing is race sizes on duris u can bash one size lower then yerself and one size up if u bash a size higher then yerself u get penalties.
Leaving reduce/enlarge very very usefull spells... Of course Duris aint perfectly balanced so was never the thought neither when that ogre comes in and Bodyslam you.. you will see that menu even if u got 1000 hp perm stone and biofeedback (Duris squid version of stone) up well i think i gotta try this thing out sounds interesting too bad u would know exactly what to target since u will see names instead of race names sniff....

/Klurg
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Postby Jegzed » Wed Jul 25, 2001 10:58 am

Feh newbies.

Kneeling is good. You kneel, opponent bash, you stand, he's lagged for 2-3 rounds and You can cast your force missile/pwb/prism and get out.

But what do I know about pkill anwyay?

/Jegzed
Aedaris
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Postby Aedaris » Wed Jul 25, 2001 4:31 pm

Can Paladins be bashed while mounted?
Hyldryn
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Postby Hyldryn » Wed Jul 25, 2001 4:43 pm

Bashing a paladin while he's mounted "throws him off balance" having the possibility of being dismounted. In addition just being thrown off balance lags him for 2 rounds. However, to dismount a paladin its easier to use trip. Even with a 99 mounted combat skill I'm on my ass in a couple successful trips.

(My grammer still sux)

[This message has been edited by Hyldryn (edited 07-25-2001).]
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Postby Hyldryn » Wed Jul 25, 2001 4:47 pm

[This message has been edited by Hyldryn (edited 07-25-2001).]
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Postby Kegor » Wed Jul 25, 2001 10:26 pm

Hrmm... the thouht occured to me that maybe hit points could be raised accordingly based on level/class/race. Then it might be more appropriate for full spell damage to be applied. This could make for extremely long fights tho depending on how vast the increase.. especially the way people like to flee. This idea also seems a bit easier to code then all of that downgrading.

-Jaznolg
Hamibugan Sinweaver
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Postby Hamibugan Sinweaver » Thu Jul 26, 2001 3:48 am

*wonders* where Jeg will be for above said 4on4 with Sarvis Image


------------------
That is all. Peace.
Hami
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Postby Sarvis » Thu Jul 26, 2001 2:00 pm

For some reason I missed the post with the 4on4 against me before...

Umm... Hami, I don't use bash triggers. Even when I play a warrior I don't use them because I hate being lagged all the time in case I need to do something else.

I understand your concept... but if you kneeled and I missed a bash once, I wouldn't do it again. In fact as soon as I saw you kneel I'd just start hacking away. Your tactics may work against idiots and bots, but not against real players.

The whole point of pkill is that every single class/race combo is not supposed to be able to kill every other one.

Umm... no. The point of pkill is for everyone to have fun while attempting to kill each other. In a balanced pkill MUD each race/class combo can kill each other race/class combo. Sojourn is not a balanced pkill MUD. It is (almost) a balanced RP MUD.


Oh, and bring on that 4on4... I'll take 'em all out! *flex* Image

Sarvis
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Postby Tilandal » Thu Jul 26, 2001 2:24 pm

I tend to agree with jaznolg that the best way to ballence things quickly is to boost hitpoints. Maybe quick and dirty your hitpoints get x10 in arena. Not that this is equivelent to all damage being only 1/10 of what it normaly is. 10 may be excessive but I chose it for cosmetic reasons. A better number could be chosen with a bit of experimentation.

Also I am not of the opinon that every race/class combo should be equal. This is a group based mud and things are ballenced twoards groups. Some classes will have definate advantages over others 1v1 but I do think any 4 players given a decent mix of classes (ie not 4 warriors against 4 bards)
should be a balenced fight.
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Postby Sarvis » Thu Jul 26, 2001 2:26 pm

I don't think increasing hp or changing damage amounts will make a difference to mages not being able to cast their spells...

Sarvis
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Postby Tilandal » Thu Jul 26, 2001 3:13 pm

Nope it wont but bringing a basher and rogue along will. Increasing hitpoint means that the first group to bash wont automaticly win because thier invoker toasts every one. It also gets rid of that pesky complaint where melle damage wasn't downgraded but spell damage was. (face it killing a caster in 6 rounds is a bit excessive on melle damage just like killing somone with 1 spell is a bit excessive in spell damage)
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Postby Sarvis » Thu Jul 26, 2001 3:21 pm

Heh... but if I had a basher and a tripper I'd be doing exp, not wandering around in Acheron. Image

Sarvis
Hamibugan Sinweaver
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Postby Hamibugan Sinweaver » Thu Jul 26, 2001 8:27 pm

Your comments are precisely why you will lose Sarvis. If you stop bashing, you're gonna be blind, silenced, and eating offense like no tomorrow, it's just the way it goes.

I disagree, there is no conceptual way in hell every class should be able to kill every other class, and I highly doubt it will be that way. Each class has a role, bashers bash, healers heal, nukers nuke, plain and simple.

We're not comparing it to the rest of the MUD Image
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Postby Sarvis » Thu Jul 26, 2001 8:31 pm

If you stand and start casting I will bash. But don't expect me to sit there bashing you while you are kneeling all the time. Of course, none of this matters since I' m a ranger who can't bash worth crap anyway... heh.

Sarvis

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