enchanter help, plleeeaassseee

[norros]

I've held off on complaining about it, but it's starting to make me think I don't want to play here anymore, so I have to say something

I'm with two same level tanks & I have to do 4x the work, not to mention, actually have to be at the computer & I get a notch say, for every four that they get.

Is there any work going into standardizing the ammount of xp people get in groups?

Or lowering the chanter xp tables?

Can anyone give me some hope of a good time someday? or am I destined to spend the next two months getting to level 36?

I'm amazed to see the ppl who have already made it so high lvl, but I can't spend all week, every day all day playing to get to where I can have fun actually playing the game I mean, I play pretty much every day, 3-5 hrs a day, & xp regularly..

Just starting to feel too much like a job, & this is what I do for fun & relaxation :/

thanks

[This message has been edited by norros (edited 08-15-2001).]

[izarek]

As for enchanter exp: ive seen enchanters keep up with hitters notch for notch. I think them insisting on casting dmg spells prolly had something to do with it. Anyhow, it can be done.

As for the work of it, that only gets worse. If you dont have the time or attention for it, try being a hitter. I get pulled away from mudding alot, and being a hitter works best for me in that respect.

Good luck

Izzy

[Gindipple]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by norros:
<B>Can anyone give me some hope of a good time someday? or am I destined to spend the next two months getting to level 36?

I mean, I play pretty much every day, 3-5 hrs a day, & xp regularly..
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can expect to be 36 after 2-3 months at this rate, depending on many factors.

NOTE: lvl 36 ench by no means puts you in zone groups, it really puts the odds in your favor though.

[Ubek]

Norros, the reason you can't keep up with my warrior is because I sometimes play upwards of 10 hours in one day, it's not often, but alot of times I do. But your xp table does suck. Even at lvl 24 killing lvl 40 mobs in a 2 man group with a lvl 33 warrior you should have gotten alot more xp than you got. Hey, atleast you don't die....often. ROAR

[Xebes]

Norros, I hear ya.

Here's another reason I think enchanter exp tables are so annoyingly difficult:

I'm level 26 now. I can be pretty damn useful to a group of level 40+'s doing exp, even at my level. You can't say that about many other classes at all.

I'd appreciate a small reduction in the xp table for us, nothing really major, but it's depressing the people I grouped with when we were both level 10-15 being level 40 now, and I'm level 26 with more ptime than they.

(I'd quit if I didn't love the class so goddamn much!)

However, I came up with a few thoughts as to how to go about balancing exp a little better. I'll start by saying that people repetitively kill the same "exp mobs" over and over again, and that I think that is bad.

1) I see damage exp being a BIG factor, more than I feel it should. Perhaps the exp tables should be modified a bit to make it a bit harder for classes that do the most damage. Invokers seem well balanced already, I feel the next to be addressed should be rogues and paladins.

2) Then, once the xp tables are balanced between classes, I'd suggest a moderate reduction in difficulty of xp for EVERYONE. Then, to prevent things being too easy, I would greatly increase the amount that trophy
affects your xp.

3) Ooh, what about making damage xp lessened if you're fighting a mob you're trophied on? I group with hitters that don't care much about trophy cause they'll still get good damage xp.

Anyways, my suggestions aren't necessarily enchanter-specific, but I don't think the problem of exp is restricted to that class alone, enchanters just seem to be the most visible.

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-<(#)>- Xebes makes your heart start to race REAL FAST!

[Hamibugan Sinweaver]

I would say that a high level enchanter is one of if not THE most rewarding class at high level.

A) With Dragonscales you are an irreplaceable asset in ANY group.

B) There are so few of you at high levels you'll almost ALWAYS be in a zone group. And if that doesn't make you want to keep playing, well.......

Just stick it out, I wish many many times a day that I had rolled an Enchanter to start with, and not been talked into a Cleric.

------------------
That is all. Peace.
Hami

[Grathnys]

BAH

That is all.

grath

[norros]

cool, yea I'm gonna stick it out for sure..

this is definitely the most poweful class i've played, politically & for fun

someday i'll be a badass

[Dinggle]

Enchanter fun.

I've reached almost 38 in two months, mostly because i've had good friends help me along the way and apparantly i'm not a half-bad caster.

also the times that i play the only other evil chanter on usually is ossis, and she's gonna be tied up in the big-dawg zones which leaves me open to play hastebitch and stoner to a lot of other xp groups. i think i have my own room on the ship now.

xp flies to 36, then drops down big time after that. get out of dk though norros, there is better xp to be had elsewhere

Teyaha

[Galorion]

After playing an Enchanter for 36 levels, I'd have to agree that xp is painfully slow at times. It's gotten a lot better for me since level 31 because now I have decent offense and my mem times are such that I can afford to cast some offense in addition to stone/haste. Levels 16-30 were very rough in xp groups because almost all of my mem time went to stones and hastes.

I think that the solution for this problem is not necessarily to lower enchanter xp tables, but to actually give enchanters xp for some enchantment spells. Clerics get healing xp and hitters/invokers get damage xp, thus enchanters should get enchantment xp. Give enchanters a small % of damage xp done by group members that they hasted. Give them xp for damage absorbed by stoneskins that they cast on group members.

[Lyt]

Giving exp for things like haste and stones can easily be twinked, and probably will never happen. But what would be nice is that enchanters/conjurers/illusionists etc get exp for hitting mobs with non damage offense spells such as feeblemind, power word blind, ray of enfeeblement, major paralysis etc. (Heck even add exp for clerics hitting curse, silence etc.) All of these spells have a very high chance of failing, so why should we not get something when we actually do land one on a mob, which helps the group to kill it for exp. This would make it worthwhile to slow/ray/fumble/ and blind mobs so that the non damage classes actually get something useful out of their work.

Lyt

[Galorion]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Giving exp for things like haste and stones can easily be twinked</font>

If coded right, I don't see how this can be twinked any more than xp for healing can be twinked.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">But what would be nice is that enchanters/conjurers/illusionists etc get exp for hitting mobs with non damage offense spells such as feeblemind, power word blind, ray of enfeeblement, major paralysis etc. (Heck even add exp for clerics hitting curse, silence etc.)</font>

I like this idea, too .

[This message has been edited by Galorion (edited 08-16-2001).]

[Jegzed]

Enchanters are not that hard to exp. They level way faster than clerics and invokers.

/Jegzed

[Gindipple]

Exp for stones or hastes would be no more twinkable than cleric heal xp, I here this all the time yet noone talks about clerics twinking their xp.

It's simply unbased.

[rylan]

Cleric xp sucks so bad already, and talk to any cleric, you can't "twink" healing xp. You only get 'healing' xp for healing the tank while engaged in a fight. I would -love- to see blinds/curses/silences be worth something. Its not like we actually get any xp from damage.
As gindipple said about clerics getting exp, its simply unbased. Believe me, if there was a way to get more xp, we would've figured it out by now, since out current progression rate sucks.. from what I've experienced, only invokers level slower than clerics.

[Galorion]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Exp for stones or hastes would be no more twinkable than cleric heal xp, I here this all the time yet noone talks about clerics twinking their xp</font>

That's my point. If done right, exp for stone/haste won't be any more twinkable than healing exp, which isn't really twinkable.

[Vipplin]

I support fully a change in enchanter xp. I think the reason it hasn't been done yet is probably coding difficulty.

If possible, enchanters should get xp for the same kinds of things clerics do. Their class is intended to support others primarily, and they should receive experience for doing their primary job, just like clerics. Put that in and remove the damage xp bonus.

I'm not saying it would be easy, but if some way could be found, I'm all for it.

[Malacar]

Not that I play anymore, but here's my 2 cents anyways.

Telling an ENCHANTMENT class that they have it better because they get DAMAGE exp is retarded. Not only is it retarded, it's a bone thrown to Enchanters, rather than the actual fix.

It's been posted SEVERAL times on here that a fix for enchantment exp would be to give enchanters a -fraction- of the hitting exp if stone blocks a hit on a tank type.

Saying 'oh go ahead and cast damage for more exp' is stupid. It's not an Enchanters job to nuke. We cast far too many spells(hastes anyone?) to make our memtimes worthwhile.

Enchanter EXP needs tweaking. The bonus for doing damage is gay. That's an Invokers job, and I'd be just as happy if Enchanters had no damage nukes, and just status effects.

It's sad that the class has ended up this way. Yes, they are rewarding at very high levels. Yes, they can be powerful(not as much as some seem to think, but whatever). No, they are a bitch to level, and quite frankly, I play the game to have fun, not listen to groups bitch at me that I never do exp, so my level is too low.

Sorry chums, I ain't got the time it takes to put in on leveling a character this slowly. I thrive on big groups, and big zones. I detest exp groups, though can tolerate them in modicum. But when I have to cast damage, or do 2-3x the exp groups to level, only to have it lost on a death when a cleric is too lazy to res my corpse, or disappears when he says he'll wait for me, to join an exp group, then my corpse rots...

Well you can see it. Yes, I am seething mad. I was having fun for a while there. I really wish people would learn the one simple thing I did:

If you don't play the class to higher levels, then shut the bloody hell up. I made the mistake, and people consider me a buffoon now. *shrug* Whatever. Just consider this. If you keep saying 'No its ok, they have X', when you don't play it... You'll end up like me. Do you HONESTLY want that?


------------------
Malacar - French kissin midgets, and damn proud of it. Oh yeah... My comments can offend you now, I don't care anymore. Have a day.

[Aderon]

Who quits a game then reads message boards all the time and posts on current game status? Dude just log your char on and stop starting each post with "Even though I don't play anymore" and other shit like that.

Now that is my 2 cents.

Aderon

[Malacar]

Oh give me a break. I check the boards because, contrary to popular belief, I have friends here.

No I don't pay them.

Yes it's by their own volition.

If you don't like my posts, don't read them. But cut the crap and don't give me grief for posting my opinions. I log in to check the news almost every day. I speak to a few enchanters every day. I absolutely do not play anymore, however. I don't have time. Unlike others, I have a job, and the fact that mine skipped IPO and went public last week has made my life a living hell. Sorry if you can't sympathize with this, but it's a fact of my life.

In other words, I still know more about the class than most, but definitely not all.

So here's your 2 cents change, and I thank you to flame me in emails.

------------------
Malacar - French kissin midgets, and damn proud of it. Oh yeah... My comments can offend you now, I don't care anymore. Have a day.

[This message has been edited by Malacar (edited 08-16-2001).]

[izarek]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Malacar:
<B>

It's been posted SEVERAL times on here that a fix for enchantment exp would be to give enchanters a -fraction- of the hitting exp if stone blocks a hit on a tank type.

Saying 'oh go ahead and cast damage for more exp' is stupid. It's not an Enchanters job to nuke. We cast far too many spells(hastes anyone?) to make our memtimes worthwhile.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not sure if that response was directed towards me, but just to set the record straight...

I whole-heartedly agree with chanters getting exp for stoning/hasting/etc. In fact, I'm one of those that posted such a suggestion awhile back.

Enchanters are a freakin awesome class. Lots of fun spells. I'd play one to high levels if I had the patience or time. Due to RL constraints, I dont. I have played em to mid levels tho. I don't think that makes me an expert.

However, I've grouped with many of them. Usually they do fall behind in exp. However, I distinctly remember being grouped with Drathlaen doing ship exp. I've seen him keep up with my ranger, notch for notch (at equivalent levels). I'm not saying it happens all the time, just that it can be done.

I'm no expert on enchanters, but I saw what I saw.

Izzy

[This message has been edited by izarek (edited 08-16-2001).]

[Malacar]

Wasn't directed at any one person Izzy. I'd have posted a name if it was.

And yes, it CAN be done... But not adhering to what the class actually is.

Nuff said.

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Malacar - French kissin midgets, and damn proud of it. Oh yeah... My comments can offend you now, I don't care anymore. Have a day.

[izarek]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Malacar:
<B>

And yes, it CAN be done... But not adhering to what the class actually is.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That last sentance puts it very well. I could not agree more. I'm sure it'd be a coding nightmare and would require all sorts of balancing, but it seems the best way.

[Dinggle]

the only offense a chanter can really cast is pris. here's why.

first circle magic missle - whoopie!
2nd circle - chill touch and burning hands, but invis, energy shield, faeriefire, minor creation...not gonna mem offense
3rd circle - ray, str, dex...that's about all that's memmed no damaging offense
4th circle - lightning bolt, haste, dispel magic....haste and dispel magic memmed
5th circle - stone, fire/cold shields, dim. all stones and a dim
6th circle - blur, clair, fireball, cone of cold..all blurs and a clair
7th circle - pwb, pris, fly, reduce, enlarge...all pris or fly+solid fogs
8th - globe, blacklight burst, major para, airy water - most often times all globe or all para, as a para mob makes stone last longer..

as you can see enchanter offense is the same circle as our much needed spells. how often does the chanter have to mem and cast all 5 hastes every few minutes? not like chanter person is gonna mem and cast lightning bolts that will add more to the mem time, making it longer to get stones and blurs back. blur lasts as long as haste and although you could conceivably get by memming only one or two, if your group uis particularly quick about xp or whatever you dont want to have anything extra to mem that you dont need.

i dont even ENGAGE in fights anymore, as it leaves me free to glance, stone, blur, haste, time para's and pris. etc. only one of those spells gives me any xp, and only if i get a red pris.

i would like to see offense in 3rd, 5th and single target offense in 8th. nothing uber, just something.

yes chanter xp is prob faster than a clerics, but we got a buttload more to cast in a group than anyone else (whiney warriors refusing to start till hasted, whiney warriors refusing to start without blur, whiney warrio....er n/m :P). oh yeah then they want it rayed and blurred and slowed and para'd..all while not stopping to let the chanter mem between fights.

it aint easy, and i not complaining, but unless you play the class please dont preach on it. and i mean play the class NOW, not last wipe.

thanks

[Jegzed]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Dinggle:</font>

<B>the only offense a chanter can really cast is pris. here's why.
</B>

I don't agree at all.

first circle magic missle - whoopie!
Don't underestimate magic missile damage

2nd circle - chill touch and burning hands, but invis, energy shield, faeriefire, minor creation...not gonna mem offense
Agree. Faerie fire is the one I cast the most here.

3rd circle - ray, str, dex...that's about all that's memmed no damaging offense
BLINK! Always keep blink memmed..

4th circle - lightning bolt, haste, dispel magic....haste and dispel magic memmed
Yep, mostly hastes...

5th circle - stone, fire/cold shields, dim. all stones and a dim

It absolutely sucks that slow is in this circle. I never cast or mem that spells since I live and die by the stoneskin spell.

6th circle - blur, clair, fireball, cone of cold..all blurs and a clair
Fuck blur. If you're doing exp, you have a healer anyway. Keep as many cone's as you can, as they are your PRIMARY source of exp until you get 41+.

7th circle - pwb, pris, fly, reduce, enlarge...all pris or fly+solid fogs
Pwb all the way baby. prism damage ain't that reliable.

8th - globe, blacklight burst, major para, airy water - most often times all globe or all para, as a para mob makes stone last longer..
Stone lasts enough, and para takes forever to cast and para mobs always hit on someone else when they break para. So I keep like one globe and the rest blacklight to nuke with.
Blacklight is among the best spells we have, because of its superb effect to slow mobs.

You didn't mention the best circles.
9th circle - Constriction all the way when you exp, since you dont need reloc/gate memmed.

10th circle - scales since its the only spell.


as you can see enchanter offense is the same circle as our much needed spells. how often does the chanter have to mem and cast all 5 hastes every few minutes?

In zones I'll haste ppl. When doing exp, I'll only haste if there is a need.

not like chanter person is gonna mem and cast lightning bolts that will add more to the mem time, making it longer to get stones and blurs back. blur lasts as long as haste and although you could conceivably get by memming only one or two, if your group uis particularly quick about xp or whatever you dont want to have anything extra to mem that you dont need.

You don't NEED blur. It's nice and helps, but if you got anyone capable of casting a heal spell then it's not really needed.

i dont even ENGAGE in fights anymore, as it leaves me free to glance, stone, blur, haste, time para's and pris. etc. only one of those spells gives me any xp, and only if i get a red pris.

I assist when I do exp. You see, I wear "hitter" gear when doing exp and that exp helps.


i would like to see offense in 3rd, 5th and single target offense in 8th. nothing uber, just something.
But those circles are already filled with superneeeded spells.


yes chanter xp is prob faster than a clerics, but we got a buttload more to cast in a group than anyone else (whiney warriors refusing to start till hasted, whiney warriors refusing to start without blur, whiney warrio....er n/m :P).

What warriors would that be? The one's I hang with are happy enough with a stone

oh yeah then they want it rayed and blurred and slowed and para'd..all while not stopping to let the chanter mem between fights.

Why cast all that if you don't get exp from it and it is NOT needed.

I do 55+ warrior mobs with just a warrior, and all spells I cast are stone(or scales), blur, haste and nukes.

it aint easy, and i not complaining, but unless you play the class please dont preach on it. and i mean play the class NOW, not last wipe.

I think enchanters are easy to play and easy to exp if you spend some time. The only reason I wasn't 50 a month ago is that I have a RL

/Jegzed

[Hamibugan Sinweaver]

"What warriors would that be? The one's I hang with are happy enough with a stone "

It's not that they're happy with stone, it's that they're content that you're at the keys Jeg.

Jegzed group-says: Hey guys, at work AFKish

[Galorion]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">3rd circle - ray, str, dex...that's about all that's memmed no damaging offense
BLINK! Always keep blink memmed..</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Blink does rock in certain situations . It's also great fun when used to get rid of salesmen in WD.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">5th circle - stone, fire/cold shields, dim. all stones and a dim

It absolutely sucks that slow is in this circle. I never cast or mem that spells since I live and die by the stoneskin spell.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I agree. Slow is especially useless once you get blacklight burst.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">6th circle - blur, clair, fireball, cone of cold..all blurs and a clair
Fuck blur. If you're doing exp, you have a healer anyway. Keep as many cone's as you can, as they are your PRIMARY source of exp until you get 41+.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I agree here as well. I keep one blur memmed for the primary tank when fighting particularly nasty mobs, but usually when xping it's not needed. My personal preference is for fireballs over cone, but it's the same end result.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">7th circle - pwb, pris, fly, reduce, enlarge...all pris or fly+solid fogs
Pwb all the way baby. prism damage ain't that reliable.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Pwb is good in certain situations, but for generic xping I find pris spray to be much better.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">8th - globe, blacklight burst, major para, airy water - most often times all globe or all para, as a para mob makes stone last longer..
Stone lasts enough, and para takes forever to cast and para mobs always hit on someone else when they break para. So I keep like one globe and the rest blacklight to nuke with. Blacklight is among the best spells we have, because of its superb effect to slow mobs.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I also avoid using major paralysis unless it's definitely needed, the side effects from it are too obnoxious (paladins can't stay engaged, mob picks random target when paral runs out). Blacklight burst does rock, so I usually have that or globe memmed.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I think enchanters are easy to play and easy to exp if you spend some time. </font>

Yeah, I guess if you've got enough resources to have a full set of hitter gear for xping and you manage to get xp groups with people who don't care about getting haste, then you can get decent xp. The vast majority of us don't have those luxuries though, and as a result xp is damn slow as an enchanter when compared to most other classes. And it still doesn't make any sense that you can't get decent xp when you play the class for what it's designed to do.

[This message has been edited by Galorion (edited 08-17-2001).]

[Gindipple]

After playing both ench and warrior I have found that the best way to exp an ench is stone/haste and mem out. Simply put you will get your exp from the kill. If you speed up the group you speed up your xp. Do not tolerate groups where someone does not call the condition out for you if meming out. Do not engage, you just die more that way. In upper lvls don't use pris as an xp tool, use it as a help save the group tool. Maybe you'll para one, do some damage to speed things up, or blind a mob.

Exp for an ench is pretty good up to lvl 36 when compared to warrior if you do this. Don't expect to stay one for one with a warrior though. From 36 on you're probably doing much less xp work, getting the kill xp is best you can hope for. Oh and dieing is bad bad, you must get a ress or you will start to go backwards with enuf of it.

When it comes to spells for xp cone about best ya gonna use. Spells for zones, be ready to type a lot adjusting spells as situations change, you'll use everything at least once.

[Kazibblie]

Amen Jegzed!
Kaz

[HeMang]

duh!