Fine example of Grey elf avoiding crits

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Waelos
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Fine example of Grey elf avoiding crits

Postby Waelos » Thu Jan 03, 2002 9:23 pm

< 725h/726H 124v/124V T: Weylarii TC: few scratches EC: awful>
Nidle parries a huge frost giant guard's lunge at him.
Nidle parries a huge frost giant guard's lunge at him.
Krabat blocks a huge frost giant guard's attack with his shield!
You parry a huge frost giant guard's lunge at you.
A huge frost giant guard pierces you extremely hard.
OUCH! That really did HURT!
A huge frost giant guard makes a nice ballet step which plants a foot a mile above your head.
A huge frost giant guard smashes you very hard.
OUCH! That really did HURT!
A huge frost giant guard smashes you extremely hard.
OUCH! That really did HURT!
Mithil parries a huge frost giant guard's lunge at him.
Your image is no longer displaced.
gsa ***Displacement has faded.
You stagger from a fearsome pierce from a huge frost giant guard!
OUCH! That really did HURT!
You stagger from a fearsome pierce from a huge frost giant guard!
OUCH! That really did HURT!
A mighty smash from a huge frost giant guard makes you contemplate a new career!
OUCH! That really did HURT!
A mighty smash from a huge frost giant guard makes you contemplate a new career!
OUCH! That really did HURT!
You gasp in pain from a huge frost giant guard's awesome smash!
OUCH! That really did HURT!
A huge frost giant guard misses you with his smash.
A huge frost giant guard knocks you backwards several feet with a powerful kick! Ouch!
Mithil barely pounds a huge frost giant guard.
Mithil barely pounds a huge frost giant guard.
A doppleganger of Mithil barely drains a huge frost giant guard.
A doppleganger of Mithil barely drains a huge frost giant guard.
You slash a huge frost giant guard extremely hard.
Your glowing crimson dagger bathes the room in eerie crimson light as a scathing beam
of pulsing pale energy fires from the blade at a huge frost giant guard.
Your spell fails to take hold on a huge frost giant guard.
A huge frost giant guard staggers from your fearsome pierce!
A doppleganger of Weylarii barely drains a huge frost giant guard.
There is a flash of light at the tip of a glittering elven scimitar
as waves of energy flow down it's blade and enter your body. Your
vision fades to a blur as your blade comes to life!
You miss a huge frost giant guard with your slash.
A huge frost giant guard staggers from your fearsome slash!
You land a mighty slash on a huge frost giant guard
You miss a huge frost giant guard with your slash.
Your slash enshrouds a huge frost giant guard in a mist of blood!
A huge frost giant guard is nearly slain by the force of your slash!
A huge frost giant guard slumps to the ground.
You pierce a huge frost giant guard's heart, you heartbreaker you.
A huge frost giant guard is dead! R.I.P.
rem scimitar
wield ebony
col
A huge frost giant guard is stunned!
A huge frost giant guard slumps to the ground.
You receive your share of experience.
Your blood freezes as you hear the rattling death cry of a huge frost giant guard.
A doppleganger of Krabat barely drains a huge frost giant guard.
Nidle's glowing crimson dagger bathes the room in eerie crimson light as a scathing beam
of pulsing green energy fires from the blade at a huge frost giant guard.
Kezlor starts casting an offensive spell.

< 86h/726H 124v/124V>
Kaitos gets something from corpse.

< 86h/726H 124v/124V>
A huge frost giant guard switches targets..
You are rescued by Krabat!

< 86h/726H 124v/124V>
Asamoth starts casting a spell called 'displacement'.
You are rescued by Lalor, you are confused, but grateful!
Diac starts casting a spell called 'full heal'.

< 86h/726H 124v/124V>
A huge frost giant guard switches targets..

< 87h/726H 124v/124V>
Retark completes his spell...
Retark utters the words, 'wzhzafgxabraw'
Retark conjures up a fearsome meteor swarm!
Retark crushes a huge frost giant guard with his swarm of fiery meteors.
Retark crushes a huge frost giant guard with his swarm of fiery meteors.
Retark crushes a huge frost giant guard with his swarm of fiery meteors.
Retark crushes a huge frost giant guard with his swarm of fiery meteors.
Retark crushes a huge frost giant guard with his swarm of fiery meteors.
Retark crushes a huge frost giant guard with his swarm of fiery meteors.
Retark crushes a huge frost giant guard with his swarm of fiery meteors.

< 87h/726H 124v/124V> Anila completes her spell...
Anila utters the words, 'abi dalzims horrid wilting'
Anila summons an haze that envelops the room.

Anila cackles as his fog wilts a huge frost giant guard.
Anila cackles as his fog wilts a huge frost giant guard.
Anila cackles as his fog wilts a huge frost giant guard.
A huge frost giant guard is outside of the blast radius!
Anila cackles as his fog wilts a huge frost giant guard.
Anila cackles as his fog wilts a huge frost giant guard.
Anila cackles as his fog wilts a huge frost giant guard.
Krabat parries a huge frost giant guard's lunge at him.
Krabat parries a huge frost giant guard's lunge at him.
A huge frost giant guard barely smashes Lalor.
Lalor slashes a huge frost giant guard.
Krabat parries a huge frost giant guard's lunge at him.
A doppleganger of Kaitos barely drains a huge frost giant guard.
A doppleganger of Kaitos barely drains a huge frost giant guard.
A doppleganger of Kaitos barely drains a huge frost giant guard.
You dodge a huge frost giant guard's vicious attack.
The world starts spinning, and your ears are ringing!
A huge frost giant guard breaks your heart, goodbye cruel world...
With a final blow, you feel yourself falling to the ground.
Your soul leaves your body in the cold sleep of death...
You lose a level!
The world speeds up around you.
gsa ***Haste has faded!
Your vitality drains away.
gsa ***Vitality has faded.
You feel less wooden.
Invisible things vanish again.
You feel weaker.
The magical side of things is less visible.
Your senses seem duller somehow.

*** Welcome to Sojourn ***


Yeah, right.

Lost.
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Postby Dalar » Thu Jan 03, 2002 9:36 pm

heh maybe they made grey elves the worst isntead of best at avoiding crits. code error?
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Postby Todrael » Thu Jan 03, 2002 10:05 pm

No stone, no scales. You were hit 8 times, plus a kick. That averages out to about 79 damage per hit. Those aren't crits man. Those are giants.

-Todrael
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Shevarash
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Postby Shevarash » Fri Jan 04, 2002 12:11 am

I have to concur with Todrael here..

Ranger + No stone, no scale, fading displacement + 2nd gatehouse == certain death.

If I missed something, feel free to point it out.



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Corth
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Postby Corth » Fri Jan 04, 2002 1:11 am

Well lets look at it another way..

Can there be a serious debate that elf warriors tank as well as dwarves? Of course not. End of story.

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Postby Shevarash » Fri Jan 04, 2002 1:13 am

Um, Corth - he's a ranger, not a warrior.



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Postby Gormal » Fri Jan 04, 2002 1:43 am

thats not second gate so your equation is faulty!
Waelos
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Postby Waelos » Fri Jan 04, 2002 2:24 am

Doesn't matter if Im a ranger or a warrior Shevarash, Grey elves, and other low hps race tank classes get owned.

Why do you think I thought those were all crits? maybe because 79 hps is 1/4 of my nat hps.

That wasn't 2nd gatehouse, that was 2 rooms from Thrym.

Sojourn 2, Waelos would have tanked that much without a problem. Maybe its because he had about 130 more hps. *shrug* That hp total was with MAX con, +80 hps from eq and lvl 50 cleric vit. I can't get too many more hps without completely degenerating my hit / dam.

This isn't about rangers vs warriors. .. its about low hps races having a distinct disadvantage that is not compensated adequately. I have posted many ideas to counterbalance this =) I can refer you to them if you so desier. Thanks for reading!

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Postby Grintor » Fri Jan 04, 2002 3:06 am

although i can understand the whole crit issue, i think the balance between the RACES is just fine.

those low hp races are the best casters dood. You dont want one race being uber caster and uber warrior, cause that's all anyone will play. there must be some drawbacks.

since you dont have shieldblock and your defensive skills cant compare to warriors, even with how back warriors suck atm, there was an even less chance of you avoiding even ONE of those blows. there's a possibility had you been pure warrior you would have avoided 2-3 hits, and had about 140-210 more hp when all was said and done.

however even trolls can hardly take giants without stone/blur or dscales.

the low hp races are actually balanced vs the beefy ones. grey elves get outdoor sneak, mem damned fast, have incredible ac which helps immensely in the lower levels and have good dex. barbs just have str and hp, they dont even have infra!

my $.02
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Postby Corth » Fri Jan 04, 2002 5:08 am

Shev:

I wasn't referring at all to waelos' post.

I was merely saying, A grey elf warrior sucks compared to a dwarf warrior. thats all. And grey elf warriors supposedly get crit less... whatever, they suck. Image

It would be kind of cool if you had elf tanks who have less hps, but actually make up for that deficiency by getting hit significantly less. I might actually want to bring such a person to a zone. I dont care what the news says.. when it comes to mobs that are bigger than furry rabbits, grey elves get hit just as often and just as hard as dwarves... except they have a few hundred less hps.
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Postby Shevarash » Fri Jan 04, 2002 8:54 am

Waelos - I wasn't arguing your point, I agree with it to some extent and have posted numerous times in numerous threads that melee changes are coming. I was merely pointing out that your log did not illustrate that point very well, im my opinion. Further, I submit that it DOES matter if you are a ranger or a warrior - warriors are designed to be primary tanks, rangers are not.

Corth - Gotcha. See above Image



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Postby cherzra » Fri Jan 04, 2002 9:21 am

On the umpteenth rehash of the 'this race sucks at class X why can't it rule like race Y':

Ogre shamans suck compared to orc shamans.

Gnome warriors suck compared to dwarf warriors.

Yuan ti anything sucks compared to the drow counterpart.

With the exception of lower levels, troll warriors suck compared to ogre warriors.

Human clerics suck compared to dwarf clerics.

The list goes on. Everyone knows this, it's one of the reasons why this game is fun, variety. If you play a race that sucks at a class, you should know this.


On the being hit part in the log above...

The hit calculation / defense skills vs spells / combat system, I'll absolutely agree on that as being in need of another look. If it's any consolation, warriors get torn apart just as fast or maybe a round later.
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Postby Malacar » Fri Jan 04, 2002 6:53 pm

Last I checked, though... Human Cleric, Orc Shamans, etc.. Were still grouped.

They have a function and purpose, and can do it well. Perhaps not as 'great' as the dwarven counterpart, but they can do their parts.

Elven tank-types cannot. The current code, with crits, etc, is just too powerful for them. So they can't even do their jobs at higher levels.

I wish people would open their eyes and see this, instead of trying to make it into an 'every race/class must be equal' rant.

It's gettin old.
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Postby Ashiwi » Fri Jan 04, 2002 7:17 pm

Actually, I think Malacar has a valid point on the grey warriors, one I'd never quite looked at in that fashion before. Dwarven clerics are superior to other race clerics, but if all you have to work with is a human cleric, you'll still take them zoning as the primary cleric. That's not typically the case with elven tanks. Although I'm sure somebody will go out to prove this point wrong as soon as possible, I just don't see elven tanks for zones where the mobs do insane damage with each hit. Elven tank for MD, anybody?

A human cleric can still do a cleric's job. An elven enchanter can still do an enchanter's job. An elven tank can do a tank's job up to a certain point, but after that point it becomes questionable as to whether or not they can perform their given function.

No, the races should not be equal. Yes, perhaps the choice of elven warrior should be a more challenging role to play. There comes a point where the viability of the race as the class should be examined, though.

Would somebody out there who knows the harder hitting zones post something on whether or not an elf could serve as main tank for them? Perhaps zones like Brass, Manscorps, MD, heavy casting zones like CC. I don't know most of the meaner zones, so that's somebody else's cue. Hopefully on another thread, instead of this elven ranger thread.
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Postby Iltavera » Fri Jan 04, 2002 7:31 pm

I'm sure someone else has mentioned this before, but what about "race-based classes". Example, making the warrior class different per/race. I don't mean attributes, I mean skills. How often would elven warriors bash compared to barbarians. So why should elven warriors have that? Give them different tanking skills. Yet make them nearly equal in effectiveness (if that's what people want). This way, if someone wants to play a elven warrior and be a blade dancer, or a dwarf warrior and use their head for ramming things, they have a choice based on what they think is ub3r and not based on racial quality.
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Postby Gort » Fri Jan 04, 2002 8:19 pm

Large part of why Waelos was able to post this is because I missed my cue on the stone. I was the prim stoner at that time, and I dropped the ball. On the bright side, I learned a valuable lesson, and thankfully it only cost 4% exp for him post ress, and a few minutes of ress lag.

Sorry for that Waelos, I'll strive to do better in the future.


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Postby rylan » Fri Jan 04, 2002 8:33 pm

Hey, human clerics don't suck. I got an infra item, and I only got 50hps less than a dwarf cleric. I like to rp a human.
So I can't use those cool dwarf-only weps.. sniff. But recalling to WD is nice, isn't it?
And.. and.. oh..
*sniff*

Rylan sulks away and hides in the corner...

PS.. sorry for the off topic post :P
Guest

Postby Guest » Fri Jan 04, 2002 8:58 pm

Something to keep in mind on those OUCH messages:

It bases the description of the level of the attack on how much damage it is compared to your base hit points, not counting eq or vit. You may have noticed this if you've ever leveled a mage from low levels with hp gear... you can get hit for 6 hp and get those messages even though you have 300 hp.

I would therefore expect the elf to get more of those messages, and quite possibly get them on some regular, non-crit hits.

[This message has been edited by Iyachtu (edited 01-04-2002).]
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Postby Treladian » Fri Jan 04, 2002 11:58 pm

Grintor: The lowest HP race is NOT the best caster around for goodies though. Elves don't get a wisdom bonus so the best clerics on the goodie side are dwarves. Gnomes get around an equivalent intelligence bonus which is either a bit less, equal, or a bit greater depending on who you ask and much better hp. I suppose the best way to put it is that in the racial balance game, greys != drow.
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Postby Selias » Sat Jan 05, 2002 12:11 am

Elven enchanter here, and I must say that having faster mem times and outdoor sneak does NOT offset my lack of natural hps.

It really pisses me off to have elves called the best casters in the game, because we're not. The bottom line of this mud is HPs, nothing else seems to matter.

HPs are why barbs/dwarves make the best tanks, why dwarves make the best clerics, and humans make the best mage classes (for goodies at least).

When you're zoning, being able to mem your spells during mems 7 seconds faster than the human enchanter doesn't really make a difference, because we all stop to mem anyway. The human enchanters extra 100 or so natural hps does make a big difference zoning, because they can tank for an extra couple rounds while my elf ass would be mooshed.

Overall, the difference in racial hp is what makes some classes better than others. RP is important, and that's why most people play elves, but if I wanted a zoning character, I'd sacrifice the fast mem times for an extra 100hp any day of the week, and I'm pretty sure most other elves would too. The weaker races are weaker, and do not have enough bonuses to offset their lack of HP.
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Postby Treladian » Sat Jan 05, 2002 12:24 am

Oh yeah, Iltvaera: The sheer amount of work it would take to make many race based classes balanced makes that route unfeasible. Simply alter an existing class depending on the race chosen isn't possible either from what I've heard.
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Postby Waelos » Sat Jan 05, 2002 6:05 am

OK this time I HAD stone =) hehhehhea! I think there are 8 crits. they are all crits, and I was tanking 2 mobs =)

heheh!

< 783h/783H 124v/124V T: Glarec TC: excellent EC: nasty wounds> Banzai! To the rescue...

< 783h/783H 124v/124V T: Glarec TC: excellent EC: nasty wounds>
Kezlor completes his spell...
Kezlor utters the words, 'group heal'
Kezlor heals Poopil.
Kezlor heals Cullen.
Kezlor heals Glarec.
Kezlor heals Dartan.
Kezlor heals Gordex.
Kezlor heals Nokie.
Kezlor heals Imis.
Kezlor heals Kezlor.
Kezlor heals Dhurn.
Kezlor heals Ebgar.
Kezlor heals Ketroc.
Kezlor heals Folur.
Dartan flies east.
Ketroc heroically rescues Folur.
Dhurn group-says 'Stoneskin is OUT!!'

< 783h/783H 124v/124V T: Glarec TC: excellent EC: nasty wounds>
A caryatid column switches targets..

< 783h/783H 124v/124V T: Glarec TC: excellent EC: nasty wounds>
You parry a caryatid column's lunge at you.
A caryatid column smashes you hard.
OUCH! That really did HURT!
A caryatid column smashes you hard.
OUCH! That really did HURT!
A caryatid column smashes you very hard.
OUCH! That really did HURT!
You parry a caryatid column's lunge at you.
A caryatid column misses you with its smash.
Glarec parries the guardian lich's lunge at him.
The guardian lich barely hits Glarec.
The guardian lich clambers to his feet.
Dhurn shivers from the cold, as he hits the guardian lich.
You barely slash the guardian lich.
You barely pierce the guardian lich.
You barely slash the guardian lich.
You barely pierce the guardian lich.
You barely slash the guardian lich.

< 607h/783H 124v/124V T: Glarec TC: few scratches EC: nasty wounds>
Gordex starts casting an offensive spell.
Ebgar group-says 'vitting folur'

< 607h/783H 124v/124V T: Glarec TC: few scratches EC: nasty wounds>
Ebgar starts casting a spell.

< 607h/783H 124v/124V T: Glarec TC: few scratches EC: nasty wounds>
Imis completes his spell...
Imis utters the words, 'heal'
Imis heals Folur.

< 607h/783H 124v/124V T: Glarec TC: few scratches EC: nasty wounds>
Gordex completes his spell...
Gordex utters the words, 'sunray'
A huge beam of white light shines down from the heavens.

The guardian lich holds up his arms in pain, as Gordex's sunray strikes him.
A huge beam of white light shines down from the heavens.

A huge beam of white light shines down from the heavens.


< 607h/783H 124v/124V T: Glarec TC: few scratches EC: nasty wounds>
Cullen starts casting a spell called 'stone skin'.

< 607h/783H 124v/124V T: Glarec TC: few scratches EC: nasty wounds>
gsa oof
Ketroc sends the guardian lich sprawling with a powerful bash.

< 607h/783H 124v/124V T: Glarec TC: few scratches EC: nasty wounds> A caryatid column smashes you very hard.
OUCH! That really did HURT!
A caryatid column smashes you extremely hard.
OUCH! That really did HURT!
You parry a caryatid column's lunge at you.
You stagger from a fearsome smash from a caryatid column!
OUCH! That really did HURT!
You stagger from a fearsome smash from a caryatid column!
OUCH! That really did HURT!
You dodge a caryatid column's vicious attack.
A caryatid column rises to its feet.
Glarec dodges the guardian lich's attack.
Dhurn shivers from the cold, as he hits the guardian lich.
Dhurn slashes the guardian lich hard.
Dhurn shivers from the cold, as he hits the guardian lich.
You barely slash the guardian lich.
You barely pierce the guardian lich.
There is a flash of light at the tip of a glittering elven scimitar
as waves of energy flow down it's blade and enter your body. Your
vision fades to a blur as your blade comes to life!
You barely slash the guardian lich.
You barely slash the guardian lich.
You miss the guardian lich with your slash.
You barely slash the guardian lich.
You barely slash the guardian lich.
You barely pierce the guardian lich.
You group-say 'oof'

< 293h/783H 124v/124V T: Glarec TC: few scratches EC: pretty hurt>

< 293h/783H 124v/124V T: Glarec TC: few scratches EC: pretty hurt>
Gordex starts casting an offensive spell.

< 293h/783H 124v/124V T: Glarec TC: few scratches EC: pretty hurt>
You are rescued by Glarec!

< 294h/783H 124v/124V T: Glarec TC: few scratches EC: pretty hurt>
Cullen completes his spell...
Cullen utters the words, 'stone skin'
Dhurn's skin seems to turn to stone.

< 294h/783H 124v/124V T: Glarec TC: few scratches EC: pretty hurt>
Gordex completes his spell...
Gordex utters the words, 'gjifal'
A huge beam of white light shines down from the heavens.

The guardian lich holds up his arms in pain, as Gordex's sunray strikes him.
A huge beam of white light shines down from the heavens.

A huge beam of white light shines down from the heavens.

A caryatid column seems to be blinded!
Poopil starts casting an offensive spell.

< 294h/783H 124v/124V T: Glarec TC: few scratches EC: pretty hurt>
A caryatid column barely smashes Glarec.
Glarec dodges a caryatid column's attack.
A mighty smash from a caryatid column makes you contemplate a new career!
OUCH! That really did HURT!
You parry a caryatid column's lunge at you.
A mighty smash from a caryatid column makes you contemplate a new career!
OUCH! That really did HURT!
Glarec deflects the guardian lich's blow, and strikes back at the guardian lich!
A brilliant flash erupts from Glarec's blade as him strikes a caryatid column,
causing it to scream and clutch his eyes in holy torment.
You barely slash the guardian lich.
You miss the guardian lich with your pierce.
You barely slash the guardian lich.
You miss the guardian lich with your pierce.
You barely slash the guardian lich.

< 149h/783H 124v/124V T: Glarec TC: few scratches EC: pretty hurt>
Kezlor starts casting a spell called 'stone skin'.

< 149h/783H 124v/124V T: Glarec TC: few scratches EC: pretty hurt>
Imis starts casting a spell called 'full heal'.

< 149h/783H 124v/124V T: Glarec TC: few scratches EC: pretty hurt>
You are rescued by Folur!

< 149h/783H 124v/124V T: Glarec TC: few scratches EC: pretty hurt>
Ebgar completes his spell...
Ebgar utters the words, 'zuharuhl'

< 149h/783H 124v/124V T: Glarec TC: few scratches EC: pretty hurt>
Poopil completes his spell...
Poopil utters the words, 'meteorswarm'
Poopil conjures up a fearsome meteor swarm!
Poopil crushes the guardian lich with his swarm of fiery meteors.
Poopil crushes a caryatid column with his swarm of fiery meteors.
Poopil crushes a caryatid column with his swarm of fiery meteors.
Kezlor completes his spell...
Kezlor utters the words, 'stone skin'
You feel your skin harden to stone.

< 150h/783H 124v/124V T: Glarec TC: few scratches EC: pretty hurt>
Gordex says 'May the fleas of a thousand Calimshan camels rise up and smite thine ass.'

< 150h/783H 124v/124V T: Glarec TC: few scratches EC: pretty hurt>
Gordex starts casting an offensive spell.

< 150h/783H 124v/124V T: Glarec TC: few scratches EC: pretty hurt>
Folur blocks a caryatid column's attack with his shield!
A caryatid column smashes Folur hard.
A caryatid column smashes Folur hard.
Glarec deflects a caryatid column's blow, and strikes back at a caryatid column!
A brilliant flash erupts from Glarec's blade as him strikes a caryatid column,
causing it to scream and clutch his eyes in holy torment.
Glarec deflects the guardian lich's blow, and strikes back at the guardian lich!
Glarec slashes the guardian lich.
The guardian lich barely hits Glarec.
The guardian lich clambers to his feet.
Dhurn slashes the guardian lich.
Dhurn shivers from the cold, as he hits the guardian lich.
Dhurn slashes the guardian lich extremely hard.
Dhurn shivers from the cold, as he hits the guardian lich.
Ketroc pierces the guardian lich.
Nokie pierces the guardian lich.
You slash the guardian lich hard.
You pierce the guardian lich.
You slash the guardian lich hard.
You pierce the guardian lich.
You slash the guardian lich hard.

< 150h/783H 124v/124V T: Glarec TC: few scratches EC: awful>
Imis completes his spell...
Imis utters the words, 'full heal'
Imis does a full heal on Glarec.

< 150h/783H 124v/124V T: Glarec TC: few scratches EC: awful>
Poopil starts casting an offensive spell called 'meteorswarm'.

< 150h/783H 124v/124V T: Glarec TC: few scratches EC: awful> grep
You group-say 'I have 150 (783) hits, and 124 (124) movement points.'

< 150h/783H 124v/124V T: Glarec TC: few scratches EC: awful>
Ebgar says 'FULL HEALING ----->>>> weylarii'

< 150h/783H 124v/124V T: Glarec TC: few scratches EC: awful>
Ebgar starts casting a spell called 'full heal'.

< 150h/783H 124v/124V T: Glarec TC: few scratches EC: awful>
Cullen starts casting a spell.

< 150h/783H 124v/124V T: Glarec TC: few scratches EC: awful>
Folur group-says 'heh i cant beelive at this point peopel are leaving coz rthey scared'

< 150h/783H 124v/124V T: Glarec TC: few scratches EC: awful>
A caryatid column smashes Folur hard.
Folur parries a caryatid column's lunge at him.
Folur staggers from a fearsome smash from a caryatid column!
Glarec dodges a caryatid column's attack.
Glarec deflects a caryatid column's blow, and strikes back at a caryatid column!
Glarec parries the guardian lich's lunge at him.
Glarec parries the guardian lich's lunge at him.
The guardian lich starts casting an offensive spell.
Dhurn slashes the guardian lich.
Dhurn shivers from the cold, as he hits the guardian lich.
Dhurn slashes the guardian lich hard.
Dhurn shivers from the cold, as he hits the guardian lich.
Ketroc pierces the guardian lich.
Nokie pierces the guardian lich hard.
Nokie pierces the guardian lich hard.
You slash the guardian lich very hard.
You pierce the guardian lich hard.
You slash the guardian lich very hard.
You pierce the guardian lich very hard.
You slash the guardian lich very hard.
Your flesh loses its stony texture.
gsa ***Stone has faded.
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Postby Todrael » Sat Jan 05, 2002 6:22 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Waelos:
<B>Kezlor completes his spell...
Kezlor utters the words, 'stone skin'
You feel your skin harden to stone.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This was after every hit shown. No hits visibly went through after this. You weren't stoned this time either. I did a quick search for the stone out message, and the only place it shows up is at the end. 9 hits, without stone, averaging around 70 damage per hit. Doing better this time! Get stone at the start of the fight next time Image

-Todrael
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Postby Waelos » Sat Jan 05, 2002 7:01 am

Todd? =) read the last part of the message. thats when stone ran out boo =) I was stoned =)
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Postby Waelos » Sat Jan 05, 2002 7:05 am

Oh, oops! ok I see now +)
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Postby Todrael » Sat Jan 05, 2002 7:05 am

Yeah.

-Todrael

[This message has been edited by Todrael (edited 01-05-2002).]
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Postby kiryan » Sat Jan 05, 2002 3:36 pm

remove warrior from the grey's list of choices.

matter fact remove grey period because they suck at every class even ranger (sorry ceralyne there is a consensus). Besides what forking elf would live the majority of their life in wd and associate with humans and dwarves?

From there we can go about removing all the other bad choices, warriors will be dwarven, barb, troll, and ogre. mages will be drow and human. clerics will be dwarven and duergar. We can remove the male option for gender too, why bother female has female only eq and !charm. Boy then everyone will really look the same.

For more fuel on this fire, consider early dnd most of the non-human races had stats so compelling that there was no reason to make humans. What was their answer, level restrictions, only human was unlimited.

someone said they wouldnt take a elf zoning... race/class means shit, you go zoning if you have friends. if you dont have friends your pretty much out of luck on the goody side, too many warriors paladins and antis to choose from.

waelos said something about not being able to wear too many more hps without hurting hit/dam. as far as i can tell hit/dam is in your mind (well as long as your not missing all the time) you do a lot more dam living long enough to get fhealed. what % do you suppose your damroll makes up for every hit (after skills are applied)? my 50 troll zones with about a 20/15 and 200 hps in eq (id wear more if i could get my hands on it). i miss like mad, but generally i can live long enough to get full healed (as long as its not clouding). also, i too get my ass beat down tanking any 50+ mob without a stone and armor. you know that pirate sentry for spirit raven, he owns my ass, being bashed and blind, i got to do at least 2 or 3 runs. I think I saw a log of ranger soloing it in 1 run. not to mention, rangers arent tanks right, they are on the dam dealing end of the scale, if your tanking somebody in your group fucked up or got fucked up.

Possible suggestions

make "sucky" race/class combos easier to level.

factor intelligence into tanking hitting ability.

remove all the races cept grey and drow.

remove all the races cept human and restring folks drow, grey, vampire, werewolf, demon, angel, dragon, tranvestite ect...

delete every thread that includes a post with the word "elf" and one of the following "warrior" or "ranger."

ban me from the bbs
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Postby Malacar » Sun Jan 06, 2002 8:10 am

Kiryan, if you actually bothered to read posts, it would be a miracle. You're the exact person I had in mind when I mentioned that people always turn these threads into an 'every race/class must be equal' bullshit.

Get your head out of your ass, and stop bein a wanker. Read the post the way it was intended, not the way you want to read it. I'm really sick of this shit.

Yes, Barbs/dwarves/trolls/ogres should tank well. They can take a beating. Get your head off the mentality that all tanking = taking extreme amounts of damage every time. There IS such a thing as dodge/parry. Elves should be kings of this aspect of tanking.

The major problem, as I see it, and the downfall of this mud lately... Is that the damage of mobs has been jacked up to really silly levels. Mobs do too much damage. Stone/scales hasn't changed much, sure. Displace was added, sure.. But the mob crit rate is the deathknell of this mud.

It really is ludicrous to walk into a zone, with stone or even scales, and get killed in 3 hits. It's not fun. I know the immortals want to challenge the playerbase, but what playerbase will you have left when everyone leaves because it's "The way we envision it, or the highway."

I mean I know Shev is sticking his neck out repeatedly to try and placate the playerbase. I know he's mentioned changes after elementalists... But a mud shouldn't rely on one or two classes to even out an imbalance. I, for one(I know I am probably a minority), would be willing to wait on elementalists, so the combat engine can be retuned, so people can have fun again.

I dunno. But the crit rate is the primary reason I don't play. I can see where grey elf tanks, or even gnome or halfling tanks, can be upset. They don't WANT to play the biggest, baddest race around to sit there and get raped like no tomorrow. They want diversity. Something that is seriously missing right now.

Flame me if you will, but please, do me the courtesy of not being a total ass by not reading my posts. I'm willin to trade blows, but man... You get the point.
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Postby Jurdex » Sun Jan 06, 2002 8:23 am

You guys trip me out. I've grouped with elven, gnomish and halfling warriors. They all DO take less crits than dwarves and barbs. Trust me, I notice it big time while healing. Yes, when they do get hit, they get hit hard, but they take less hits by far. Anyway, my groups have had elven and half-elven rangers rescue along with elven/gnomish/halfling warriors and they live fairly well...

I mean, halflings make the best rogues but you see human rogues out there. shrugs.

Dornax
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Postby Malacar » Sun Jan 06, 2002 10:04 am

Now there is evidence that I may not like, but sounds a little more reasonable.
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Postby Snizzle » Sun Jan 06, 2002 11:51 am

Hurm, I dont know about other races, but I have grouped with Nidle since i started playing chanter.

Pound for pound he is one of the best tanks on the mud. Combine halfling warrior with decent eq, a good healer /chanter and they make terrific tanks. He takes fewer crits, gets and extra attack now and then - and the best? almost never misses rescue!

Of course when he goes - he goes quick, dead R.I.P.! Image
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Postby Shevarash » Sun Jan 06, 2002 3:12 pm

Malacar - Let me just clarify what you said about Elementalists. I think you have the wrong idea, and it's probably my fault for writing confusing posts about it.

1) Elementalists are not meant to solve all of the melee problems/imbalances. They are simply a new class that will hopefully be fun and add even more variety to the Mages, while replacing the outdated Conjurers.

2) Melee changes will follow Elementalists so that I will be painting with a full palette when I do it. Understand what I mean? Getting melee balanced without all of the elements (pardon the pun) in place would be pointless. Image

Anyways, this will all be moot shortly, as these changes turn into reality rather than conjecture. Image



------------------
<B>Shevarash -- Code Forger of Sojourn3
</B>
Podar Brightwolf
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Postby Podar Brightwolf » Sun Jan 06, 2002 6:20 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by kiryan:
<B>remove warrior from the grey's list of choices.

matter fact remove grey period because they suck at every class even ranger (sorry ceralyne there is a consensus). Besides what forking elf would live the majority of their life in wd and associate with humans and dwarves? </B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have to agree with Malacar on one possible aspect and say that kiryan doesn't even care what a post says. He/she just wants to see his/her name on the bbs tons.
[RANT] This kind of statement is pure bullshit based on hearsay and not actual experience. If I'm wrong, PLEASE flame me. I call on ANYONE who has gotten a grey to above 30 to speak up. I had a grey warr on toril at 36 by the wipe, had a grey druid to 25 on soj2 and have a grey rogue now. I also know several greys over the course of my yrs here who have gotten above 46: Cerlayne, Narrisse, Necasio to name a few. I LOVE the race. So what if the hp don't equal a barb or dwarf. That's not an issue to a RPing elf. And any grey elf wanting more than stasis in life will HAVE to leave his hometown same as any race. I have played on this mud for about 5 or 6 yrs and cannot believe the whining and bullshit that has started to sprout since the latest incarnation was begun. People apparently cannot realize that the game is just that, A GAME. Waelos has a valid point that I, as a lower lvl warrior this incarnation, have also realized. Tanking skills have suffered greatly since Toril and Soj2. I have quit playing a warrior until I can get the EQ to beef up my lowbie to match mobs that I used to be able to solo in previous incarnations. I'm not trying to criticize anyone by saying this, just point out a valid beef us warriors have. I WANT to PC tank, but not if it requires I have to have and protect 3 support classes just to take out a "you ARE mad" mob. I used to be able to solo them with low/mid lvl eq.[/RANT]

I'm sorry for the long post and the ranting but I'm getting tired of classes and races being dragged through the mud for the apparent sole purpose of getting "your name in lights". If you CANNOT factually back up your post, as can cerlayne, weylos, necasio (tho he doesn't post often that I've seen) have on the subject of greys, as an example, please leave the subject alone and stop turning it into your own personal soapbox.

Thank you if you've had the patience to read this,

Podar.
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Postby Frensolith » Sun Jan 06, 2002 9:59 pm

Now you know how I felt when I tanked!

Frensolith, Elven Warrior
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Postby Salen » Sun Jan 06, 2002 10:25 pm

Kiyran has leveled 3? Kiyre has leveled 3 you sure you didnt mean Kiyre, Aderon?
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Postby Aderon » Mon Jan 07, 2002 1:17 am

To Podar: You wrote about Kiryan posting to see his name on the bbs and his statements being bullshit but I think there are few people as qualified as him to post. Kiryan has not only levelled 1 elf to 50 this wipe but he has levelled 3 to 46+. There are few people who has tested elf to the limits as him. When he posts on elves, he is showing his support for the statement made by other people. He looks at this forum like a petition and is stating he agrees. I post on elf posts for the same reason.

To not Podar:
The reason you do not see many people posting on elves is not because they are fine as is. The reason is because there are not a lot of people to post on the subject. A lot of people who play elf either do not play anymore, play less frequently or have switched to another race/class combo.

You have to remember, this post is not about Yuan-ti. It is not about gnomes. The post is about elves. We should address each races shortcomings seperately by hearing qualified people post on the subject. I know there are not a lot of people who play these difficult races so we should listen to the few who do, not insult them.

Aderon - showing his support for the elves.
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Postby Jurdex » Mon Jan 07, 2002 1:26 am

smile, its the second best thing to do with your mouth! Image

Dornax
Jurdex

[This message has been edited by Jurdex (edited 01-06-2002).]
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Postby Elseenas » Mon Jan 07, 2002 1:49 am

Podar:

I don't care what his qualifications are, he has simply not shown himself to present well reasoned beliefs and has not, at any point, actually entered a *debate*.

------------------
Elseenas of No House Worth Mentioning
Guest

Postby Guest » Thu Jan 10, 2002 1:22 am

One issue discussed in this thread has just been addressed: Rainbow Pattern had a slight quirk in it, that was preventing it from having its intended effects.

The fix is in already, though it hasn't made the news yet (oversight). Please try this spell out (this is the second time a problem with this spell has been addressed, it is quite different than it was entering beta).

We will hopefully have further news on this general subject.... soonish.
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Postby Ensis » Thu Jan 10, 2002 4:34 am

Hopefully I'm not re-re-re-reiterating this, but race is only relevent with melee types because right now HPS are the backbone to tanking. Armor class, Skills, Protection spells, etc.. are nothing compared to a mean crit, and those crits are so mean that they kill just about anyone, not only elves.

I'm not trying to throw more 'tanks suck' stuff at the coders because Shev posted that melee changes are coming.

I've grouped with Nidle/Cerlayne and I can't remember the gnome's name but theres a 40 something warrior gnome. They do fine tanking. The critical hit problem is affecting every race I think, but it hits harder on elves because where I could take a crit and be at 3 hps, the elf would be at -53. Just my take Image

E
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Postby kiryan » Thu Jan 10, 2002 7:59 am

aderon think you got me confused with someone else. only useless race/class i ever leveled to 46+ was a human paladin.

not sure what your referring to me not reading the post malacar, but i went back and reread it just to be sure and found a couple other things i feel like ranting about but i dont feel like it today.

#add kiryanpostcount 1

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