What it takes to be a real warrior in this game.....

[Ruagh]

Being a dedicated warrior, I see somehow strange that warriors have same hps with casters... I think warrior hps should be upped a little (100-300 hps) and also skills should mean a bit more. Looks like currently hps is all I should care for. Upping shieldblock/parry/dodge is a good idea. I think skills should be more stats-relevant and I also liked the idea of +stat items (+20 maxshieldblock rings would definitely make me forget any hp rings for soloing ) Just my 5c opinion about the difference between a Tank and a Warrior. I think balance should be slightly twinked towards Warriors, if we're mentioning balance at all. The thing that -100 AC wont beat 1200hps is a VERY sad thing IMO

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Ruagh The Curious Troll pokes his long nose into another none-of-his-business matter here

[This message has been edited by Ruagh (edited 02-12-2002).]

[rylan]

Nokie.. an undead dracolich -should- beat the crap out of anyone, regardless of AC.

Certian mobs like that and pit fiends should do crazy damage. But against stuff like jot frost giants, I've noticed AC make a differance in damage.

[Treladian]

AC does make a difference in damage taken at really low values. I certainly noticed a difference in damage taken when I played around with some agility gear and bark/armor back in my exping days. This isn't going to affect crits much though since, if I recall correctly, the way it works is that some damage is shaved off of each hit and taking 20 hps off a 500 hp crit isn't gonna do much

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"Maybe I should stop and ask for directions . . ."

[Corth]

Nod Treladian

Thats my impression exactly. AC and agility make a difference at lower levels but against higher level mobs whatever benefit you get is marginal. Since most of the people who roll characters have an eventual goal of getting to a high level, what happens at lower levels is kind of irrelevent in the long run.

In any event, I think most of us would be in favor or more diversity among races and classes. I think it would be kind of cool to see elven warriors that take significantly less damage against high level mobs than their larger peers.

Corth

[Galok Icewolf]

Elves and drow do take significanly less damage from tanking then all the other races do. AC does absorb damage, but it seems like its a very small amount. They reduce crit damage alot better then all the other races. The problem is AC dosent have a signifcant affect at higher levels, because mobs don't miss wether your at -50 ac, -90, -100, or -135. it absorbs SOME damage, but when you get hit for 400 it dosent matter.

[Grintor]

so is the fact that ac is useless in a zone the real problem here?

if ac was made to actually matter against them frost giants would we need to be decked out in so much caster gear?

[Jurdex]

Well, from the way it is now..

There are two possibilities:

1) Make AC matter so tanks will wear tons of AC gear and no hps and those 400 hps when you have 1200 will now be 200 hp crits while you're at 600 hps..

2) Leave it the way it is.

What is the difference?

Dornax
Jurdex

[Elseenas]

Jurdex:

The differance is in the distribution equipment. In the first scenario, every HP piece that the warrior is NOT wearing because of the change is probobly on a mage or cleric out there.

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Elseenas of No House Worth Mentioning

[Sarell]

I like the new tanking warriors, no longer just bashers. The support spells, say from elementalist to make warrior more powerful are certainly more entertaining than when they made a 2000 point fire and that was the tank.

I would wear HP gear, and try get -100 AC on my warrior far over hit and dam, unless i was changed into a rogue, and that would be kinda silly.

I do agree with Nokies point that the gear designed as hitter gear could be made rogueable to see some more variations for them. I think.

Safe travels

[old depok]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Galok Icewolf:
Elves and drow do take significanly less damage from tanking then all the other races do. AC does absorb damage, but it seems like its a very small amount. They reduce crit damage alot better then all the other races. The problem is AC dosent have a signifcant affect at higher levels, because mobs don't miss wether your at -50 ac, -90, -100, or -135. it absorbs SOME damage, but when you get hit for 400 it dosent matter.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Heres an idea-
Make the damage absorption by AC a % of the total damage based upon how low the ac is with a multiplier for agility. Now if you have a low ac and a high Agility you get benefit of taking less damage. If this is the way it works today increase the %'s.

Make the %'s based upon class so that the warriors have higher multipliers than the rogues/rangers so it doesn't change the roles of the classes.

The result should be that ac items are now more valuable and higher agility races are more valuable as tankers.

The other thing you can do is to make area effect saves for % damage taken dependant upon Agility which means that the hitters now don't need as much +HP gear since they are not getting roasted. Higher the agility less damage taken.

It should also open up some options for warrior races.

Hmmm, do I roll the Barbarian warrior for HP's or do I roll the Halfling warrior for less damage taken?

[cherzra]

Yeah, let's add the pixie race and then lobby for them to be equal tanks to big mean races. Forget it. You pit some agile and dextrous ballet dancer or ice skater against a 6'5" 250lbs WWF wrestler or a boxer, the scrawny dorks are gonna get their ass pounded in the dirt every time. I don't see why the mud should positively discriminate against the weak and puny. People read too many 'elves are the greatest warriors alive' books.

Cherzra, Booker T.

[Ashiwi]

Aw Cherzra, that's just ear envy talking.

[old depok]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cherzra:
<B>Yeah, let's add the pixie race and then lobby for them to be equal tanks to big mean races. Forget it. You pit some agile and dextrous ballet dancer or ice skater against a 6'5" 250lbs WWF wrestler or a boxer, the scrawny dorks are gonna get their ass pounded in the dirt every time. I don't see why the mud should positively discriminate against the weak and puny. People read too many 'elves are the greatest warriors alive' books.

Cherzra, Booker T.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok so skip the agility multiplier and make it % damage taken based upon AC and a class multiplier.

The concept is still the same, reduce the damage taken by each hit based upon AC to a level where it balances the hit points vs. damage issue.

[Hyldryn]

AC should not be a suitable substitute for HP. -100 AC is far too easy to obtain even when wearing all sorts of +HP gear.

[Salen]

So Cherzra's money is on Iron Mike and I get Ken Shamrock? I'll take that bet. After all he is just an agile sissy from the WWF right?

Oh and too bad Andre the Giant isn't still alive. I'd bet on Dennis Alexio (even if he did retire).

In fact, I'm pretty sure that I'd take the well trained quick guy in most fights ver the hulking brute, but that's just me.


But anyway back to the subject at hand.

[This message has been edited by Salen (edited 02-14-2002).]

[Yayaril]

I agree Cherzra, those fruity elves should get nothing.

Yayaril

[sok]

warriors use to be too strong. they were just wiping out the mobs. i remember talking to friends about how to balance the mud. one of the suggestion was take out shieldp and shieldb. i think they downgraded shieldb which made warrior easier to kill. resulting in a greater need for hitpoints. good.. bad... shrug. i personally think it's good way to keep game challenging.

sok

[Jurdex]

Uhm, Ken Shamrock is a pretty buff dude as well as being agile.

If you're going to make comparisons of WWF wrestlers.. an ogre would be Paul Wight (The Big Show, whatever) and an elf would be Sean Waltman (X-Pac, Syxx, the 1 2 3 Kid, whatever)..

Dornax
Jurdex

[Wargo]

What about making AC significantly more useful and drop all ac on eq and given by spells by half? That way the real tanks will horde up on AC gear instead of HP and make high agi races mean something.

Yssilk

[Elseenas]

Chezra:

What about O Sensai?

If you don't understand the referance, look up the History of Aiki Do.

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Elseenas of No House Worth Mentioning

[Ashiwi]

I know this is off-topic, buy my husband is an avid WWF fan. Every time Booker T. comes on, he refers to him as "that big, ugly girl."

[cherzra]

Booker T for president!

Seriously, that guy owns, hahaha he's so cool.

Wrestling rules!

p.s. they canceled wrestling here... no more WWF on tv