balance is not just for lvl 50

[Taka]

Does anyone think that the amount of damage made by spells around level 1 is typicaly too small?

Best example:
compare troll war damage to drow invoker or illithid psi.
Troll does more damage per hit on average then other do with spells. Troll has much more hp AND regenerate fast. Troll warrior does not have to mem.

So unless you compensate by making the exp table such that caster can level with like 10 kills... it seems unbalanced to me.

That is nothing new, back then, playing a sorcerer was a pain to get to level 11 without eq.

Of course people tend to forget about this since many of the people playing had help form higher level player.

For someone new to the mud, that can be a good enough reason not to stay.

[kiryan]

along the lines of playing a low level mage is way harsh dont forget that sometimes you miss your missiles, and sometimes you abort your spells.

comparing it to troll i think is unfair. compare it to warrior not a troll warrior.

[Galok Icewolf]

When it is harder to level, you pay for more power at higher levels. Yes, it is hard for a mage to get solo exp at low levels. Btw, low level psi kill mobs in one mind blast that takes a low level warrior 3-4 rounds to kill.

All in all, its that way for a reason. Mages are the most powerful characters later in the career.

[cherzra]

Rogues can sneak in almost anywhere, they can walk thru MD without fear if their skills are good. They can assassinate high level eq mobs once a game day with a damn high chance of success.

Illusionists can protect themselves from 9 or so hits, then flee and recast it, get good offense and utility.

I just read that Dartan solod Zog, so shamans are pretty kickass, but we all knew that with heal/stone/a spirit tank/offense, was pretty much clear when I saw them soloing guardians that otherwise took a 4 man group.

I know an enchanter who does 4 man brass, and who regularly solos high level eq mobs, PWB and scales own.

I'm pretty sure a cleric can kill anything over the course of time, might take longer than other mage classes but they get healing.

Warriors can, uhm, take down higher level mobs to few scratches, then flee and heal up for 10 mins, i.e. can't solo high stuff.

Invokers are like warriors, one of the few caster classes that can't do much without others, psis get dominate and other stuff, whatever blabla.

Point is, most mages get damn much power, yea it sucks at lower levels and it may be a good idea to rethink level 1-6 mages, but in the end it pays off. I'm sure if I was a lvl 50 caster I could eventually solo most rares I find, while as a warrior I have to call for help every time.

[Elseenas]

Clerics can't take anything, I died the other day to a fire giant before my word of recall finished being processed!

Seriously, I have been in more than one situation that no amount of healing could have helped: there was just no way to deal sufficient damage to the mob.

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Elseenas of No House Worth Mentioning

[Yayaril]

Yayaril walks funnily in from the west.

Yayaril walks funnily west.

I haven't been able to walk the same since I went in and explored MD.


Yayaril

[Nokie]

Cherzra, I wouldn't consider that without fear. There are a lot of factors in play...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cherzra:
Rogues can sneak in almost anywhere, they can walk thru MD without fear if their skills are good.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Gort]

ROFL Yaya!

BOHICA!


Toplack

[Morvaane]

Cherza,

From this I take it you consider illusionists/shamans/enchanters to be the best soloers? Any further info you can give me on that? I play necro, but Im not sure how thier soloing capabilities will pan out...been considering shaman alot lately, shrug...just think the necro class is not fitting its vision right now.

[cherzra]

I forgot necros, it wasn't meant to be an exhaustive list, just a few examples Necros can solo quite some stuff too.

As far as MD goes, I goes our guild rogue owns all goodie rogues! He actually started the Nulatudas MD Sightseeing Company inc. With regular intervals, he takes a stroll through MD, unhides at every point of interest so we can clair him and ACCs the lore and story of the sight. "On your left hand, you now see the ruins of the temple. On your right hand, you can see a rather large tree that has grown in the intersection". Then he moves on to the next interesting room, and ACCs what there is to see there. Price for attendance by clair spell is 5 plat per person, if you want a picture of him and the dracolich it's 10 plat extra since sometimes it's in a grumpy mood.

[Ashiwi]

I know that when we got spanked in CC, I was the last one left alive still inside the zone. I STAYED alive until I finally found my way back to the entrance and bumped into a critter in a one-way that I didn't know was a one-way, which automatically causes you to become unhidden. Another mob walked in behind me at the exact same moment and they smooshed me. It's like they had set a trap for me, and were just waiting for me to fall into their clutches...

[Glorishan]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Elseenas:
<B>Clerics can't take anything, I died the other day to a fire giant before my word of recall finished being processed!

Seriously, I have been in more than one situation that no amount of healing could have helped: there was just no way to deal sufficient damage to the mob.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heh, you'd be surprised what a cleric can solo with the right strategy. Just godda think it out!

Glorishan

[moritheil]

When MD was first added I hadn't realized it was so hardcore. I walked in about 10 rooms and got squished by a neogi warrior. Xyr soloCR'd me, with Lili providing a timely well. Don't know if any necro should be able to soloCR that, or if Xyr is just uber.

Thought I'd add that since someone asked about necros.

[Magruk Eat Elf]

Troll War vs ie. Drow Inv

at lower levels, depending on what fighting these classes are somewhat balanced. (just using drow as the examp tho othr MU's cld be used)

even in higher end zones, a drow inv cn last longer then troll wars, especially if yer up against some damned caster that incinds, drow i believe (could be wrong) have innately better saves then trolls, so a 1k+ troll could die a lot faster then a 500+ inv, circumstances permitting of course.

* On another note Just a nasty thought, if it is ever decided that mobs start using inferno i see a potential bug, since it hits and lasts a few rounds (correct?) trolls would die fast #1 then after death you log back on and still get hit by it's affects. Maybe this is why mobs don't cast it yet? To keep this from happening til bugs get worked out?

[Glorishan]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by moritheil:
<B>When MD was first added I hadn't realized it was so hardcore. I walked in about 10 rooms and got squished by a neogi warrior. Xyr soloCR'd me, with Lili providing a timely well. Don't know if any necro should be able to soloCR that, or if Xyr is just uber.

Thought I'd add that since someone asked about necros.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know a certain shaman who solo cr'd me from the tree in MD, was mighty impressive. Err, I don't die, so he must have cr'd someone else.

Glorishan

[Guest]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Magruk Eat Elf:
* On another note Just a nasty thought, if it is ever decided that mobs start using inferno i see a potential bug, since it hits and lasts a few rounds (correct?) trolls would die fast #1 then after death you log back on and still get hit by it's affects. Maybe this is why mobs don't cast it yet? To keep this from happening til bugs get worked out?</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mobs won't cast inferno because it would shred PC groups. The burning "bug" isn't an issue with true PC deaths (ask anyone who has died to beltyn).

Dying in the arena isn't the same as dying in the regular game.


[This message has been edited by Kiaransalee (edited 02-08-2002).]

[Elseenas]

Glorishan:

Heh, there is quite a bit we can solo using the right strategy, unfortunately "anything" is pushing it

Particularly when the fire giants are guarding these little twirpish things that are aggro, fleeing, hunters

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Elseenas of No House Worth Mentioning

[Kuurg]

Somebody slap whoever compared a mage to a warrior. I have yet to play a decent rp game that makes it easy for mages to gain experience quickly at lower levels. THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE HARDER TO LEVEL!



------------------
·•Kuurg•·

[Dalar]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cherzra:
[B]
I just read that Dartan solod Zog, so shamans are pretty kickass[B]</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I only killed him that one time b/c i found a 'bug' (well not really) and told shevy to fix it after I did it. did the same w/ gigantic werewolf.

[Icenacir]

it took 30 mins to kill settlement guardian to get dorf scale with pets. pets never hit at all. and die real quick. mob switches a lot. psi got skill lag. so i fled at 20 hps a lot of times. warriors can solo guardian easier than psi without risk. which class worse solo ablity than psi?

[cherzra]

You solod one? Well you won't see me soloing a guardian, ever. It would be sheer impossible. Shitty pets are better than no pets. I'm not saying psis are uber solo machines, but warriors sure as heck are not either.

[muma]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cherzra:
<B>Rogues can sneak in almost anywhere, they can walk thru MD without fear if their skills are good. They can assassinate high level eq mobs once a game day with a damn high chance of success.

Illusionists can protect themselves from 9 or so hits, then flee and recast it, get good offense and utility.

I just read that Dartan solod Zog, so shamans are pretty kickass, but we all knew that with heal/stone/a spirit tank/offense, was pretty much clear when I saw them soloing guardians that otherwise took a 4 man group.

I know an enchanter who does 4 man brass, and who regularly solos high level eq mobs, PWB and scales own.

I'm pretty sure a cleric can kill anything over the course of time, might take longer than other mage classes but they get healing.

Warriors can, uhm, take down higher level mobs to few scratches, then flee and heal up for 10 mins, i.e. can't solo high stuff.

Invokers are like warriors, one of the few caster classes that can't do much without others, psis get dominate and other stuff, whatever blabla.

Point is, most mages get damn much power, yea it sucks at lower levels and it may be a good idea to rethink level 1-6 mages, but in the end it pays off. I'm sure if I was a lvl 50 caster I could eventually solo most rares I find, while as a warrior I have to call for help every time.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yea agree. we may suck at lvl 1 (mages), but we kick ass later on.

[torkur]

Warriors beat invokers on soloing ability from day one.
In the 20s or so for levels when our spells do more damage vs a mob's hp, we flee to heal a few less times, but that's also with decent +hp eq. No protection spells/skills, no pets, no healing don't make for a soloing class at all here. I wish I had something half as good as shieldblock/parry is for a warrior. :P
(Complaint)
Otherwise, warriors win or we both die on all the mobs, so it would be nice if we didn't have 10x as hard an xp table as a warrior.
end complaint)
Just comparing to other magetypes I've been with in groups even.....I level at levels 41-43 at the same rate as a level 47/48 enchanter,shaman, or warrior seems to, so our damage xp is a joke considering that's casting force missiles and fell frosts on ship/smoke with maxed skills for my level.

[Galok Icewolf]

You are joking right torkur?

Geezus, I know invokers 50th level invokers that level faster then my 46th shaman.

Warriors only get exp if the go all damage mode, otherwise its same rate as invokers.

Don't complain at invoker exp, it isnt hard at all.

[Wargo]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Elseenas:
<B>Glorishan:

Heh, there is quite a bit we can solo using the right strategy, unfortunately "anything" is pushing it

Particularly when the fire giants are guarding these little twirpish things that are aggro, fleeing, hunters

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Obviously you don't know your class too well. Cleric can solo a ton of stuff. If time is not an issue then they can solo better than any other class. Anything is stretching it but I have only found certain things unsoloable.

1. multiple aggro warrior mobs in same room that don't track. ie. trolls guarding jot entrance.
2. mobs that hit like a truck. ie. dragolich in MD.
3. clerical mobs that have insane MR. ie. the ancient white dragon.
4. tracker in a place you can'y run from. ie. air plane mobs.
(heh, this is exactly the list of people who have managed to kill me in arena )

Yssilk, If You Can't Die, You Can't Lose
P.S. Try solo the BS mage

[Kifle]

I wouldnt say Rogues can sneak around MD w/o fear either...I do it, quite often now, but I am paranoid as all hell when I do. If you know how to play a rogue, then you can solo your share of stuff also. Poisons kick ass and I would like to see more of them (silence would woop ass!).
I would have to say that as far as soloing chanters, druids, and shamys have it the best. But then again what do I know...

Kifle "" ButteryFingers

[Elseenas]

Wargo:
Wael.

The proper order is _read_ THEN write.

*I never denied that we were a good soloing class.

*I never denied that there is a good bit we can solo.

Try reading first.

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Elseenas of No House Worth Mentioning

[Elseenas]

I'd also argue that shamans can solo better than clerics, regardless of time, but that is another issue.

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Elseenas of No House Worth Mentioning

[torkur]

ROFL, Galok......for those of us without uber eq that's BS.....

an example:

Kezlor and I doing 2nd floor in monastery, him level 44 at the time, me level 39....he notched when I notched. Case and point in group setting since he had the tank, stones, vitalitys, AND was going all damage otherwise. (I have no trophy on monastery crap btw)

Hell, my level 22 warrior alt has been tanking first floor monastery for 5 levels now as well and still survives better than Torkur on ebony guardians. :P

I also soloed Torkur to level 32 and have tried to do similar for fun recently. Up to level 32 killing "are you mad" mobs was 8-12 hours straight per level per night with noone else around, so I could kill the same mobs over and over with less than 5% trophy on each mob.
Recently, killing level 32 mobs (gardeners by monastery) at level 38, around 20 per notch...and since each takes off at least 150 hp, recovery time takes forever.

Whatever you're smoking, please pass me some, it must be some good shit. :P

[This message has been edited by torkur (edited 02-19-2002).]

[taelin]

Recent experience leads me to post that psionicists need a boost at low levels as well... full mana didnt even bring a single mob to less than small wounds in newbie zone. Arguably less usefull than magic missile at that rate.

Sobu