It's not really true that someone that puts in 2-3 hours/day can't do zones. That *is* true if they can't pick a day on the weekend and mud for 5 or 6 hours, but it's not about the time/day, but the amount of time you can set aside.
I know alot of people who don't have the time to mud routinely during the week, but who have managed to put in quite a bit of time on the weekends. Some of them work 40 hour weeks, have 2 kids, buncha family things, etc.
mob a gates in mob b gates in mob c....
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Malacar:
<B>I meant in groups, my apologies if I didn't clarifiy that enough.
It's REALLY annoying to have low level characters telling to you asking where to do exp, or how to do x, y, or z quest.
Go explore. That's what the mud is also about.
It's not all about leveling as fast as you can on there, if you are a newer player. Just having levels means squat. You need to learn zones(even lower level ones), your own quests, and your class especially. If you have levels, but are terrible in your class, not only will you get no groups, you will have a bad name.
So don't put that on higher level players. It's not their job to tell you where to exp, or anything else for that matter. Now if you had a question for them on TACTICS for the class in question, and they had time to answer(I try to take the time for questions like this), they SHOULD answer questions like this. These are the golden questions, and newer players that gain respect very quickly.
[This message has been edited by Malacar (edited 03-05-2002).]</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hehe, I know I wasn't totally clear in my last post, I really wasn't knocking higher lev players, but, what DOES bother me, is that I've been playing here for years.
I am not a "veteran", nor am I a "n00b", I am, however, someone who is getting very frustrated with a game I love.
Everyone says "go explore, you'll find xp!"
Where?
I've been from IC to HP and back to ZK, down past BG, and even up near BS.
What have I found?
Nothing worth doing.
I can't solo anything worthwhile. I don't play long enough to get groups, and even if I DID have the time for a group, I wouldn't.
Know why?
<drumroll>
I can't get XP!
Why? I've been in groups where everyone was 10 levels lower, or 10 levels higher, my OWN level, I've cleared out the first 2 floors of monastary, almost all of IC, even GC.
Every time I come back from those trips even MORE frustrated then I left.
Hello! I'm not even level 25, yet after a 3 hour group, I'm lucky to get 2%.
And you know what? It's not about leveling fast. But you know what else? November was when I got level 23. Where am I now? 24.
How'd I get there? Almost entirely by myself, killing the same mobs that I have 10%+ trophy on, over and over and over again.
And whoever said that "levels don't mean anything", that's total BS. I've been turned down for many groups because I don't have certain spells, or even know how to get there.
Grrrr
/rant
------------------
Taegost L'Mirrahn - STUPER DRUID(tm)
<B>I meant in groups, my apologies if I didn't clarifiy that enough.
It's REALLY annoying to have low level characters telling to you asking where to do exp, or how to do x, y, or z quest.
Go explore. That's what the mud is also about.
It's not all about leveling as fast as you can on there, if you are a newer player. Just having levels means squat. You need to learn zones(even lower level ones), your own quests, and your class especially. If you have levels, but are terrible in your class, not only will you get no groups, you will have a bad name.
So don't put that on higher level players. It's not their job to tell you where to exp, or anything else for that matter. Now if you had a question for them on TACTICS for the class in question, and they had time to answer(I try to take the time for questions like this), they SHOULD answer questions like this. These are the golden questions, and newer players that gain respect very quickly.
[This message has been edited by Malacar (edited 03-05-2002).]</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hehe, I know I wasn't totally clear in my last post, I really wasn't knocking higher lev players, but, what DOES bother me, is that I've been playing here for years.
I am not a "veteran", nor am I a "n00b", I am, however, someone who is getting very frustrated with a game I love.
Everyone says "go explore, you'll find xp!"
Where?
I've been from IC to HP and back to ZK, down past BG, and even up near BS.
What have I found?
Nothing worth doing.
I can't solo anything worthwhile. I don't play long enough to get groups, and even if I DID have the time for a group, I wouldn't.
Know why?
<drumroll>
I can't get XP!
Why? I've been in groups where everyone was 10 levels lower, or 10 levels higher, my OWN level, I've cleared out the first 2 floors of monastary, almost all of IC, even GC.
Every time I come back from those trips even MORE frustrated then I left.
Hello! I'm not even level 25, yet after a 3 hour group, I'm lucky to get 2%.
And you know what? It's not about leveling fast. But you know what else? November was when I got level 23. Where am I now? 24.
How'd I get there? Almost entirely by myself, killing the same mobs that I have 10%+ trophy on, over and over and over again.
And whoever said that "levels don't mean anything", that's total BS. I've been turned down for many groups because I don't have certain spells, or even know how to get there.
Grrrr
/rant
------------------
Taegost L'Mirrahn - STUPER DRUID(tm)
Taegost, I seem to remember seeing you're around level 25ish or so. On one hand I agree with the need to explore, but here's a couple thoughts for solo potential.
Battle Mercs, Navies, Suspicious/Dangerous rogues: Not in nature I know so your damage is limited, but they're fairly safe xp as long as you avoid the backstabbers.
Tower guards: Not sure on the level of these, but I've seen folks killin em so they must be alright at some point.
XP Grid: These are nature areas so your damage is there. Yes they are mobs that aren't classed but so what? It's still xp. I can think of several that are near to Waterdeep. Avoid the troll mobs, and yer good.
Branching out from there...
BGR - You already know this but it's still xp, esp if you wander further down.
Pirate Isles? - It's off of BGR and could have some soloable stuff for you.
Buffalo's - Ya ya, you know about em. Have you killed the ones down south too though?
Baldur's Gate - again it's not nature but with some dancing around justice you can find stuff to smite.
Havenport - good somewhat old-school xp zone. Has stuff for many levels, should be some for you.
TF (Can't spell the damn name) - Some of the stuff in the early part of the zone can be killed with the right dancing around assisting.
Ice Crag - You've mentioned you did stuff here, but there's a reason why a lot of folks get trophied on tubby mercs, the butt-ugly wives and privates. It works!
More XP Grids - there's a lot of em. Varied mobs for trophy and killing enjoyment diversification.
Just some ideas really. When my wife and I were leveling up we visited most of those places and worked our way up fairly well. Granted we were a group and could do things easier, but that's where we got our xp.
One more, but it's a much more dangerous place to play - Trollbark. It's designed around your level but the large number of mobs can very quickly overwhelm.
Sylvos
[This message has been edited by Sylvos (edited 03-06-2002).]
Battle Mercs, Navies, Suspicious/Dangerous rogues: Not in nature I know so your damage is limited, but they're fairly safe xp as long as you avoid the backstabbers.
Tower guards: Not sure on the level of these, but I've seen folks killin em so they must be alright at some point.
XP Grid: These are nature areas so your damage is there. Yes they are mobs that aren't classed but so what? It's still xp. I can think of several that are near to Waterdeep. Avoid the troll mobs, and yer good.
Branching out from there...
BGR - You already know this but it's still xp, esp if you wander further down.
Pirate Isles? - It's off of BGR and could have some soloable stuff for you.
Buffalo's - Ya ya, you know about em. Have you killed the ones down south too though?
Baldur's Gate - again it's not nature but with some dancing around justice you can find stuff to smite.
Havenport - good somewhat old-school xp zone. Has stuff for many levels, should be some for you.
TF (Can't spell the damn name) - Some of the stuff in the early part of the zone can be killed with the right dancing around assisting.
Ice Crag - You've mentioned you did stuff here, but there's a reason why a lot of folks get trophied on tubby mercs, the butt-ugly wives and privates. It works!
More XP Grids - there's a lot of em. Varied mobs for trophy and killing enjoyment diversification.
Just some ideas really. When my wife and I were leveling up we visited most of those places and worked our way up fairly well. Granted we were a group and could do things easier, but that's where we got our xp.
One more, but it's a much more dangerous place to play - Trollbark. It's designed around your level but the large number of mobs can very quickly overwhelm.
Sylvos
[This message has been edited by Sylvos (edited 03-06-2002).]
I find that around your lvl killing cats and tough mercs is wonderful exp! you dont have to go far for the xp either if you are worried about time...get a warrior around your lvl and a chanter and you guys will do fine. You might not have time to group in far places but the rooftops and kangs tavern are not that far from the inn...
If you do have time, I have found that the tired guests in that town on dusk road near scournoble are damn good exp...all you need is your, a chanter, a warrior, and maybe a bit of damage and you guys will lvl faster than greased lightning!
Hope you find some luck dear
Kifle
If you do have time, I have found that the tired guests in that town on dusk road near scournoble are damn good exp...all you need is your, a chanter, a warrior, and maybe a bit of damage and you guys will lvl faster than greased lightning!
Hope you find some luck dear
Kifle
Torkur soloed as an invoker to level 32 on bgr.....it takes 8 hours a level or so, but it's easily doable with <5% trophy on any mobs if you spread em out.
Hell, the nightfall assassin/thief and elite black griffin warrior mobs alone should be jokes to kill and give great xp for a level 24 and blacksmith should be giving you about 2% per kill at lvl 24.
Tell torkur or tokon (my alt) when you see them and I'll get you to level 26.
Hell, the nightfall assassin/thief and elite black griffin warrior mobs alone should be jokes to kill and give great xp for a level 24 and blacksmith should be giving you about 2% per kill at lvl 24.
Tell torkur or tokon (my alt) when you see them and I'll get you to level 26.
My god, this is truly the home of the l337 d00ds. I never thought I would say this, but there is more maturity on the Duris boards than there is here.
Congratulations on your Vaunted Sojourn Challenge, I'm sure you will be quite alone to enjoy it soon enough - don't expect any newbies.
Not criticizing or anything - you've made your choice (from among 'catering to old players' or 'new players') and you'll reap the rewards.
Good luck.
Congratulations on your Vaunted Sojourn Challenge, I'm sure you will be quite alone to enjoy it soon enough - don't expect any newbies.
Not criticizing or anything - you've made your choice (from among 'catering to old players' or 'new players') and you'll reap the rewards.
Good luck.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by torkur:
<B>Torkur soloed as an invoker to level 32 on bgr.....it takes 8 hours a level or so, but it's easily doable with <5% trophy on any mobs if you spread em out.
Hell, the nightfall assassin/thief and elite black griffin warrior mobs alone should be jokes to kill and give great xp for a level 24 and blacksmith should be giving you about 2% per kill at lvl 24.
Tell torkur or tokon (my alt) when you see them and I'll get you to level 26.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
In 2 hours solo'ing BGR I can get about 30%, because I have done nothing BUT BGR since I was level 8, with a few buffs and other little side trips along the way.
EDIT: I'm sorry if I've gone off on a rant here, but it really IS frustrating, and I know I'm not the only one with these concerns, it's been said millions of times in millions of threads.
Sojourn has almost totally lost it's allure to me, when I log in now, it's not with the intent to play a game that I love, more, it's a way to pass the time, talk to friends, and help out true newbies who need/want help.
It's my way of trying to give back all that was given to me in previous incarnations of Sojourn.
------------------
Taegost L'Mirrahn - STUPER DRUID(tm)
[This message has been edited by Taegost (edited 03-06-2002).]
<B>Torkur soloed as an invoker to level 32 on bgr.....it takes 8 hours a level or so, but it's easily doable with <5% trophy on any mobs if you spread em out.
Hell, the nightfall assassin/thief and elite black griffin warrior mobs alone should be jokes to kill and give great xp for a level 24 and blacksmith should be giving you about 2% per kill at lvl 24.
Tell torkur or tokon (my alt) when you see them and I'll get you to level 26.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
In 2 hours solo'ing BGR I can get about 30%, because I have done nothing BUT BGR since I was level 8, with a few buffs and other little side trips along the way.
EDIT: I'm sorry if I've gone off on a rant here, but it really IS frustrating, and I know I'm not the only one with these concerns, it's been said millions of times in millions of threads.
Sojourn has almost totally lost it's allure to me, when I log in now, it's not with the intent to play a game that I love, more, it's a way to pass the time, talk to friends, and help out true newbies who need/want help.
It's my way of trying to give back all that was given to me in previous incarnations of Sojourn.
------------------
Taegost L'Mirrahn - STUPER DRUID(tm)
[This message has been edited by Taegost (edited 03-06-2002).]
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ormiss:
[B]My god, this is truly the home of the l337 d00ds. I never thought I would say this, but there is more maturity on the Duris boards than there is here.
[B]</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sounds like a troll.
Looks like a troll.
Smells like a troll.
Yep, it's a troll.
[B]My god, this is truly the home of the l337 d00ds. I never thought I would say this, but there is more maturity on the Duris boards than there is here.
[B]</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sounds like a troll.
Looks like a troll.
Smells like a troll.
Yep, it's a troll.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ormiss:
<B>Congratulations on your Vaunted Sojourn Challenge, I'm sure you will be quite alone to enjoy it soon enough - don't expect any newbies.
Not criticizing or anything - you've made your choice (from among 'catering to old players' or 'new players') and you'll reap the rewards.
Good luck.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I was a newbie here not that long ago. I enjoyed the challenge immensely and appreciated the game for its long-term playability and complexity. I enjoy Sojourn for what it is, much more so than the typical game which can be beaten with little effort, offers little challenge, and gets boring quickly.
<B>Congratulations on your Vaunted Sojourn Challenge, I'm sure you will be quite alone to enjoy it soon enough - don't expect any newbies.
Not criticizing or anything - you've made your choice (from among 'catering to old players' or 'new players') and you'll reap the rewards.
Good luck.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I was a newbie here not that long ago. I enjoyed the challenge immensely and appreciated the game for its long-term playability and complexity. I enjoy Sojourn for what it is, much more so than the typical game which can be beaten with little effort, offers little challenge, and gets boring quickly.
Though Ormiss has a rather strange way of expressing it, he makes a valid point. It's not the problem of "being challenging", the problem is in HOW that challenge is manifested.. and in Sojourn, that challenge seems to involve simply hours upon hours upon hours of time spent mindlessly exp'ing in hopes of reaching the lofty, wholly unattainable ideal that "when I reach a higher level, exp will be fun."
Perhaps "zoning" and those such activities are interesting for those who have reached level 40 or beyond, and if that is where your Sojourn Challenge is found, perhaps the facts are being misconstrued. But for those who have yet to reach a level such as that, the Sojourn Challenge roughly translates to "Wasting Lots of Time on Excrutiatingly Boring Tasks."
I personally do not find this very interesting, or challenging except in very 'stretched' sense of the word.. it is very challenging for me to sit in front of the computer for three hours while killing the same mobiles over and over and over.. so challenging in fact that I find myself taking up other tasks at the same time, eventually resulting in my going linkdead or simply logging off from sheer boredom. Unfortunately, the rewards for this challenge are far outweighed by the monotony of the task, as least as far as I am concerned.
This, I believe, is the problem at the root of many of these discussions of the "Sojourn Challenge." Challenge is fine, challenge is great in fact, I love challenges, but I believe that I, and probably a number of others, feel that endless exp day after day does not constitute an enjoyable or rewarding form of challenge.
I have seen many posts to the effect of "the good no longer outweighs the bad" and I have reached that point as well. I think the immortals have done a good job with the code here, and there are players who make my stay worthwile, such as Moritheil and some others, most especially Melandra, Alishea, and Miyedi.. but perhaps it's time for this whole concept of "challenge" to take a turn in a different direction, one involving something more interesting than simply huge amounts of time.
Cheers,
Ryn
Perhaps "zoning" and those such activities are interesting for those who have reached level 40 or beyond, and if that is where your Sojourn Challenge is found, perhaps the facts are being misconstrued. But for those who have yet to reach a level such as that, the Sojourn Challenge roughly translates to "Wasting Lots of Time on Excrutiatingly Boring Tasks."
I personally do not find this very interesting, or challenging except in very 'stretched' sense of the word.. it is very challenging for me to sit in front of the computer for three hours while killing the same mobiles over and over and over.. so challenging in fact that I find myself taking up other tasks at the same time, eventually resulting in my going linkdead or simply logging off from sheer boredom. Unfortunately, the rewards for this challenge are far outweighed by the monotony of the task, as least as far as I am concerned.
This, I believe, is the problem at the root of many of these discussions of the "Sojourn Challenge." Challenge is fine, challenge is great in fact, I love challenges, but I believe that I, and probably a number of others, feel that endless exp day after day does not constitute an enjoyable or rewarding form of challenge.
I have seen many posts to the effect of "the good no longer outweighs the bad" and I have reached that point as well. I think the immortals have done a good job with the code here, and there are players who make my stay worthwile, such as Moritheil and some others, most especially Melandra, Alishea, and Miyedi.. but perhaps it's time for this whole concept of "challenge" to take a turn in a different direction, one involving something more interesting than simply huge amounts of time.
Cheers,
Ryn
-
Disoputlip
- Sojourner
- Posts: 956
- Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2002 6:01 am
- Location: Copenhagen
AD&D 2nd ed. PLANESCAPE Monsterous Compendium is insane when it comes to gating, especially critters that gate in their own kind.
A few examples of the really nasty ones is
Baatezu
Pit Fiend, once a round gate in 2 lesser, or 1 greater baatezu (100% chance)
Cornugeon
2-12 barbazu (50% chance 1/day)
2-16 abishai (35% chance 1/day)
1-3 cornugeon (20% chance 1/day)
Tanar'ri
Balor can once an hour gate in 1-8 least, 1-6 lesser, 1-4 greater or 1 true tanar'ri in.
(100% chance)
In the box-set: Hellbound is actually a battlereport where everybody just keep gating more critters in. it is amusing.
---------------------
I don't know what you can use these facts for. Mabye they can justify the initiate thinking of the area builder.
I don't thing they should act as guidelines for making an unplayable zone, but I couldn't help putting them in for people that think these things are interesting.
/D
A few examples of the really nasty ones is
Baatezu
Pit Fiend, once a round gate in 2 lesser, or 1 greater baatezu (100% chance)
Cornugeon
2-12 barbazu (50% chance 1/day)
2-16 abishai (35% chance 1/day)
1-3 cornugeon (20% chance 1/day)
Tanar'ri
Balor can once an hour gate in 1-8 least, 1-6 lesser, 1-4 greater or 1 true tanar'ri in.
(100% chance)
In the box-set: Hellbound is actually a battlereport where everybody just keep gating more critters in. it is amusing.
---------------------
I don't know what you can use these facts for. Mabye they can justify the initiate thinking of the area builder.
I don't thing they should act as guidelines for making an unplayable zone, but I couldn't help putting them in for people that think these things are interesting.
/D
"In 2 hours solo'ing BGR I can get about 30%, because I have done nothing BUT BGR since I was level 8, with a few buffs and other little side trips along the way."
That's actually a good rate of exp for a divine caster in the mid 20's. The average amount of time per level often seems to make big jumps every now and then. Additionally, some levels have much steeper exp requirements than others depending on your class. A lot of people can tell you about hell levels that seem to stretch on forever.
As for the rate of exp in groups, that's a tougher one to tackle. A lot depends on group composition (too few and you don't kill fast enough, too many and kill exp is spread thin, though as a druid you should be getting a nice chunk of damage exp still) and down time between kills (ie, when one of the mages insists on using all their spells to try to kill one mob instead of spreading out the damage). Keeping things organized and moving along properly is very important, whether it's exp or trying to snag phat lewt.
------------------
"Maybe I should stop and ask for directions . . ."
That's actually a good rate of exp for a divine caster in the mid 20's. The average amount of time per level often seems to make big jumps every now and then. Additionally, some levels have much steeper exp requirements than others depending on your class. A lot of people can tell you about hell levels that seem to stretch on forever.
As for the rate of exp in groups, that's a tougher one to tackle. A lot depends on group composition (too few and you don't kill fast enough, too many and kill exp is spread thin, though as a druid you should be getting a nice chunk of damage exp still) and down time between kills (ie, when one of the mages insists on using all their spells to try to kill one mob instead of spreading out the damage). Keeping things organized and moving along properly is very important, whether it's exp or trying to snag phat lewt.
------------------
"Maybe I should stop and ask for directions . . ."
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Treladian:
<B>"In 2 hours solo'ing BGR I can get about 30%, because I have done nothing BUT BGR since I was level 8, with a few buffs and other little side trips along the way."
That's actually a good rate of exp for a divine caster in the mid 20's. The average amount of time per level often seems to make big jumps every now and then. Additionally, some levels have much steeper exp requirements than others depending on your class. A lot of people can tell you about hell levels that seem to stretch on forever.
As for the rate of exp in groups, that's a tougher one to tackle. A lot depends on group composition (too few and you don't kill fast enough, too many and kill exp is spread thin, though as a druid you should be getting a nice chunk of damage exp still) and down time between kills (ie, when one of the mages insists on using all their spells to try to kill one mob instead of spreading out the damage). Keeping things organized and moving along properly is very important, whether it's exp or trying to snag phat lewt.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And that's exactly my problem...
Here, let me give you a typical week:
Mon-Fri, get home from work around 4:30
Log on and just piddle around 'till about 5:30 to cool off.
*Used to be: MUD for around 4 hours 'till bed time, but that was back in school.
Now, it's take a bath, copy a few CDs, fiddle with my computer trying to get network working again, get stuff ready for the next work day. Time killed, 1-2 hours
So that leaves me at 7:30 or so, assuming I don't have any plans for that night, like on Mondays I go to a bowling alley where my friend bowls and I'm the team mascot <g>
Tuesdays are my night to go rollerskating, hit a bar, and spend some time with my mother.
Wed and Thu - I COULD MUD for the 2 hours before I get ready for bed, but why? I don't get anything useful accomplished.
Fri night and Sat/Sun - I'm out and about, hanging out with my friends, fixing my car, looking for women now that I'm single.
That gives me, what? On average 4-7 hours a week to MUD. Now, going by what you call a "good rate" to gain xp, that gets me a level a week.
I actually get less then that. Why? Because I try new things. Group with 2 other people for my afternoon nets me at MOST 10% xp. There's one day gone.
Or the night a week that I usually spend helping out newbies. There's another day gone.
What am I left with? Wow... Mebbe the 45 minutes/day I have between duties.
At the rate I have been going, I made it from level 23 to 24 in 3 months.
But even if I dedicated all that time to solo xp, what do I do when the xp becomes less? Or I have to find someplace new? Or, when I die? There is no "if" in there, because I also die at least 1/week, "trying new things"
And really, my whole frustration isn't about me. While yes, it does affect me, I've always had more fun meeting and talking to my friends that I've met here and helping out people less fortunate then myself.
No, my REAL frustration are the newbies. The people that eventually, leave and go somewhere else, to a game that gives them "better" gratification, because it doesn't take longer to become useful.
Oh wait... I almost forgot! There is no one person that's useful;it's a GROUP thing now. It's no longer the Uber Conjie tank, or the superb warrior dashing to the rescue, or the Monk doling out massive damage with bare hands.
Now it's dscales or die, then Ress. Blur, or die, then Ress. GHeal, or die, then REss. FHeal, or die, then Ress. Ress, and then die again.
What does that leave? The truly dedicated, the 31337 mofo. The one person that can rise above the pain and tolerate something that becomes totally mindless.
I used to love Sojourn because it constantly kept me on my toes, always had me thinking.
What could I do better? Was what I did good, or bad? Damn, am I truly quick enough to do what has to be done?
When I finished boot camp, something Gormal will have to do before HE leaves, is stand through an entire ceremony, at parade rest. For 3.5 straight hours, with few breaks to salute and recite the "Sailors' Creed".
It's painful and trying, both physically, mentally, and emotionally.
That is how I am starting to see Sojourn... As that long, 3 hours that you have to stand, because if you falter, or fail, then you don't get your weekend liberty.
Ah, but if you pass, if you can stick it out, then you CAN leave base for the weekend, pure Heaven on Earth, I tell you.
I did it. I hated it. The only reason I did it was for the Heaven that awaited me.
People say that Bards are dead. I don't see that. If I remember correctly, all a bard used to do was stand around and sing. No thought required at all.
They're wrong, Bards aren't dead, they've changed hands, and been absorbed into all the other classes, altogether.
Trel, I respect you a lot, I have for years, this isn't aimed at you, but to everyone.
I respect the gods of Sojourn greatly too, you have done a great job, you guys are great, but your idea of a "good game" is not mine, nor that of a lot of other people. I log in now for one sole purpose. It's not to make myself better, or do greater things. It's to guide and nurture the newbies, hoping to show them the sparkle, the allure, of what I always believed, and WILL always believe, is the greatest game ever created: Sojourn.
Where is my Heaven?
Taegost - Stalwart Defender of the Future of the Game
[This message has been edited by Taegost (edited 03-06-2002).]
<B>"In 2 hours solo'ing BGR I can get about 30%, because I have done nothing BUT BGR since I was level 8, with a few buffs and other little side trips along the way."
That's actually a good rate of exp for a divine caster in the mid 20's. The average amount of time per level often seems to make big jumps every now and then. Additionally, some levels have much steeper exp requirements than others depending on your class. A lot of people can tell you about hell levels that seem to stretch on forever.
As for the rate of exp in groups, that's a tougher one to tackle. A lot depends on group composition (too few and you don't kill fast enough, too many and kill exp is spread thin, though as a druid you should be getting a nice chunk of damage exp still) and down time between kills (ie, when one of the mages insists on using all their spells to try to kill one mob instead of spreading out the damage). Keeping things organized and moving along properly is very important, whether it's exp or trying to snag phat lewt.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And that's exactly my problem...
Here, let me give you a typical week:
Mon-Fri, get home from work around 4:30
Log on and just piddle around 'till about 5:30 to cool off.
*Used to be: MUD for around 4 hours 'till bed time, but that was back in school.
Now, it's take a bath, copy a few CDs, fiddle with my computer trying to get network working again, get stuff ready for the next work day. Time killed, 1-2 hours
So that leaves me at 7:30 or so, assuming I don't have any plans for that night, like on Mondays I go to a bowling alley where my friend bowls and I'm the team mascot <g>
Tuesdays are my night to go rollerskating, hit a bar, and spend some time with my mother.
Wed and Thu - I COULD MUD for the 2 hours before I get ready for bed, but why? I don't get anything useful accomplished.
Fri night and Sat/Sun - I'm out and about, hanging out with my friends, fixing my car, looking for women now that I'm single.
That gives me, what? On average 4-7 hours a week to MUD. Now, going by what you call a "good rate" to gain xp, that gets me a level a week.
I actually get less then that. Why? Because I try new things. Group with 2 other people for my afternoon nets me at MOST 10% xp. There's one day gone.
Or the night a week that I usually spend helping out newbies. There's another day gone.
What am I left with? Wow... Mebbe the 45 minutes/day I have between duties.
At the rate I have been going, I made it from level 23 to 24 in 3 months.
But even if I dedicated all that time to solo xp, what do I do when the xp becomes less? Or I have to find someplace new? Or, when I die? There is no "if" in there, because I also die at least 1/week, "trying new things"
And really, my whole frustration isn't about me. While yes, it does affect me, I've always had more fun meeting and talking to my friends that I've met here and helping out people less fortunate then myself.
No, my REAL frustration are the newbies. The people that eventually, leave and go somewhere else, to a game that gives them "better" gratification, because it doesn't take longer to become useful.
Oh wait... I almost forgot! There is no one person that's useful;it's a GROUP thing now. It's no longer the Uber Conjie tank, or the superb warrior dashing to the rescue, or the Monk doling out massive damage with bare hands.
Now it's dscales or die, then Ress. Blur, or die, then Ress. GHeal, or die, then REss. FHeal, or die, then Ress. Ress, and then die again.
What does that leave? The truly dedicated, the 31337 mofo. The one person that can rise above the pain and tolerate something that becomes totally mindless.
I used to love Sojourn because it constantly kept me on my toes, always had me thinking.
What could I do better? Was what I did good, or bad? Damn, am I truly quick enough to do what has to be done?
When I finished boot camp, something Gormal will have to do before HE leaves, is stand through an entire ceremony, at parade rest. For 3.5 straight hours, with few breaks to salute and recite the "Sailors' Creed".
It's painful and trying, both physically, mentally, and emotionally.
That is how I am starting to see Sojourn... As that long, 3 hours that you have to stand, because if you falter, or fail, then you don't get your weekend liberty.
Ah, but if you pass, if you can stick it out, then you CAN leave base for the weekend, pure Heaven on Earth, I tell you.
I did it. I hated it. The only reason I did it was for the Heaven that awaited me.
People say that Bards are dead. I don't see that. If I remember correctly, all a bard used to do was stand around and sing. No thought required at all.
They're wrong, Bards aren't dead, they've changed hands, and been absorbed into all the other classes, altogether.
Trel, I respect you a lot, I have for years, this isn't aimed at you, but to everyone.
I respect the gods of Sojourn greatly too, you have done a great job, you guys are great, but your idea of a "good game" is not mine, nor that of a lot of other people. I log in now for one sole purpose. It's not to make myself better, or do greater things. It's to guide and nurture the newbies, hoping to show them the sparkle, the allure, of what I always believed, and WILL always believe, is the greatest game ever created: Sojourn.
Where is my Heaven?
Taegost - Stalwart Defender of the Future of the Game
[This message has been edited by Taegost (edited 03-06-2002).]
-
kiryan
- Sojourner
- Posts: 7275
- Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:01 am
- Location: Los Angeles, CA and Flagstaff, AZ
- Contact:
look taegost there is no shortage of 50s, exp is possible. 30% for 2 hours is fine imo for mid 20s. Being that your experienced, id think you could do better, but if thats all you can do, then thats all you can do. You will still level after 3 hours or so right? Thats a level a night.
Have trouble getting groups, thats the same shit that made me give up paladin so many years back. not being in a group = pissed me off and left me standing by myself holding my dick. If your not up to the challenege and rewards and limitations of a druid id suggest roll a warrior/paladin or rogue (id suggest cleric or enchanter but they level slow).
Also, exploring = death = nothing no one cant tell you. If they wont tell you, then its prolly something you wont figure out or you cant do, and really the least of your concerns till you get 46+.
Have trouble getting groups, thats the same shit that made me give up paladin so many years back. not being in a group = pissed me off and left me standing by myself holding my dick. If your not up to the challenege and rewards and limitations of a druid id suggest roll a warrior/paladin or rogue (id suggest cleric or enchanter but they level slow).
Also, exploring = death = nothing no one cant tell you. If they wont tell you, then its prolly something you wont figure out or you cant do, and really the least of your concerns till you get 46+.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by kiryan:
<B>look taegost there is no shortage of 50s, exp is possible. 30% for 2 hours is fine imo for mid 20s. Being that your experienced, id think you could do better, but if thats all you can do, then thats all you can do. You will still level after 3 hours or so right? Thats a level a night.
Have trouble getting groups, thats the same shit that made me give up paladin so many years back. not being in a group = pissed me off and left me standing by myself holding my dick. If your not up to the challenege and rewards and limitations of a druid id suggest roll a warrior/paladin or rogue (id suggest cleric or enchanter but they level slow).
Also, exploring = death = nothing no one cant tell you. If they wont tell you, then its prolly something you wont figure out or you cant do, and really the least of your concerns till you get 46+. </B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Did you read my post at all, or did you just skim it?
Or if you read it, did you take the time to look at what I said, or did you just make up your mind to ignore an entire paragraph?
Read it again, thoroughly, and then you can comment on it.
Or should I go into my holier-then-thou rant, too?
------------------
Taegost L'Mirrahn - STUPER DRUID(tm)
<B>look taegost there is no shortage of 50s, exp is possible. 30% for 2 hours is fine imo for mid 20s. Being that your experienced, id think you could do better, but if thats all you can do, then thats all you can do. You will still level after 3 hours or so right? Thats a level a night.
Have trouble getting groups, thats the same shit that made me give up paladin so many years back. not being in a group = pissed me off and left me standing by myself holding my dick. If your not up to the challenege and rewards and limitations of a druid id suggest roll a warrior/paladin or rogue (id suggest cleric or enchanter but they level slow).
Also, exploring = death = nothing no one cant tell you. If they wont tell you, then its prolly something you wont figure out or you cant do, and really the least of your concerns till you get 46+. </B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Did you read my post at all, or did you just skim it?
Or if you read it, did you take the time to look at what I said, or did you just make up your mind to ignore an entire paragraph?
Read it again, thoroughly, and then you can comment on it.
Or should I go into my holier-then-thou rant, too?
------------------
Taegost L'Mirrahn - STUPER DRUID(tm)
Kiryan - I fail to see how 30% in 2 hours = 100% in 3 hours. 30% in two hours equates to 6 hours and 40 minutes for a level. Regardless, Taegost said that he netted 10% at most in an afternoon, not 30% in 2 hours, which means a level every 10 afternoons.
It's a kind gesture for those at higher levels to offer leveling assistance to lowbies, but some people want to be able to level on their own, or at least have a decent chance with a group of similar level people equipped with gear balanced for their levels.
I'm talking 'normal' leveling here, not 'pleveling.' Some people would like to be able to log on once in awhile and actually accomplish something without having to stay for seven hours. Naturally it's a hard problem to tackle given that any change in the ease of exp'ing will end up benefitting the plevelers as well, but I'm certain that there are plenty of creative solutions the players and staff members could come up with to solve the problem. And yes, it is a problem. I used to log onto Sojourn for the express purpose of helping newbies. Unfortunately, newbies are a dying breed, and with them dies my motivation.
It's a kind gesture for those at higher levels to offer leveling assistance to lowbies, but some people want to be able to level on their own, or at least have a decent chance with a group of similar level people equipped with gear balanced for their levels.
I'm talking 'normal' leveling here, not 'pleveling.' Some people would like to be able to log on once in awhile and actually accomplish something without having to stay for seven hours. Naturally it's a hard problem to tackle given that any change in the ease of exp'ing will end up benefitting the plevelers as well, but I'm certain that there are plenty of creative solutions the players and staff members could come up with to solve the problem. And yes, it is a problem. I used to log onto Sojourn for the express purpose of helping newbies. Unfortunately, newbies are a dying breed, and with them dies my motivation.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Rynlaeis:
<B>Kiryan - I fail to see how 30% in 2 hours = 100% in 3 hours. 30% in two hours equates to 6 hours and 40 minutes for a level. Regardless, Taegost said that he netted 10% at most in an afternoon, not 30% in 2 hours, which means a level every 10 afternoons.
It's a kind gesture for those at higher levels to offer leveling assistance to lowbies, but some people want to be able to level on their own, or at least have a decent chance with a group of similar level people equipped with gear balanced for their levels.
I'm talking 'normal' leveling here, not 'pleveling.' Some people would like to be able to log on once in awhile and actually accomplish something without having to stay for seven hours. Naturally it's a hard problem to tackle given that any change in the ease of exp'ing will end up benefitting the plevelers as well, but I'm certain that there are plenty of creative solutions the players and staff members could come up with to solve the problem. And yes, it is a problem. I used to log onto Sojourn for the express purpose of helping newbies. Unfortunately, newbies are a dying breed, and with them dies my motivation.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thank you
I'm pretty sure that given enough time, I will prolly gain some of the initiative back to play longer, but I think that will come when I can do something that doesn't bore me.
I certainly wouldn't mind if there was more for me to do besides xping at my level, like maybe do some lowbie eq runs or trying to figure out some lowbie quests.
But I can't even do that. Why?
I decide I want a new platinum earring, because I lost one somewhere. So every day I log on, and do the quest.
What happens? No crystal. Hrmm, ok, it's 3 hours into boot, no problem.
I wait for a crash/reboot. I walk from my guild to teh ant farm. 3 minutes pass by. What happens? No crystal, a level 46 warrior is walking OUT of there.
Ok, I need a better chance so I camp on it.
I have the head in my possession, I figure noone can beat me to it.
What happens? I lagged getting back on, 2 minutes after boot, I watch someone walk up and leave, so I go down. Guess what? No crystal.
So, since all the lowbie eq is being twinked, I have nothing to hand out to newbies who ask if I have something, ANYTHING, that is better then nothing.
All I can say is, "Sorry, but I can help you level on BGR"
I get a reply, "Isn't there someplace better then BGR?"
Eventually it will come back to me...
But will they?
------------------
Taegost L'Mirrahn - STUPER DRUID(tm)
<B>Kiryan - I fail to see how 30% in 2 hours = 100% in 3 hours. 30% in two hours equates to 6 hours and 40 minutes for a level. Regardless, Taegost said that he netted 10% at most in an afternoon, not 30% in 2 hours, which means a level every 10 afternoons.
It's a kind gesture for those at higher levels to offer leveling assistance to lowbies, but some people want to be able to level on their own, or at least have a decent chance with a group of similar level people equipped with gear balanced for their levels.
I'm talking 'normal' leveling here, not 'pleveling.' Some people would like to be able to log on once in awhile and actually accomplish something without having to stay for seven hours. Naturally it's a hard problem to tackle given that any change in the ease of exp'ing will end up benefitting the plevelers as well, but I'm certain that there are plenty of creative solutions the players and staff members could come up with to solve the problem. And yes, it is a problem. I used to log onto Sojourn for the express purpose of helping newbies. Unfortunately, newbies are a dying breed, and with them dies my motivation.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thank you
I'm pretty sure that given enough time, I will prolly gain some of the initiative back to play longer, but I think that will come when I can do something that doesn't bore me.
I certainly wouldn't mind if there was more for me to do besides xping at my level, like maybe do some lowbie eq runs or trying to figure out some lowbie quests.
But I can't even do that. Why?
I decide I want a new platinum earring, because I lost one somewhere. So every day I log on, and do the quest.
What happens? No crystal. Hrmm, ok, it's 3 hours into boot, no problem.
I wait for a crash/reboot. I walk from my guild to teh ant farm. 3 minutes pass by. What happens? No crystal, a level 46 warrior is walking OUT of there.
Ok, I need a better chance so I camp on it.
I have the head in my possession, I figure noone can beat me to it.
What happens? I lagged getting back on, 2 minutes after boot, I watch someone walk up and leave, so I go down. Guess what? No crystal.
So, since all the lowbie eq is being twinked, I have nothing to hand out to newbies who ask if I have something, ANYTHING, that is better then nothing.
All I can say is, "Sorry, but I can help you level on BGR"
I get a reply, "Isn't there someplace better then BGR?"
Eventually it will come back to me...
But will they?
------------------
Taegost L'Mirrahn - STUPER DRUID(tm)
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Taegost:
<B> In 2 hours solo'ing BGR I can get about 30%, because I have done nothing BUT BGR since I was level 8, with a few buffs and other little side trips along the way.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
15% per hour soloing is pretty darned good. When I was your level I think I got 13%/hour.
PS - I shall help you out as soon as I stop getting hit with tests and CS projects :P
<B> In 2 hours solo'ing BGR I can get about 30%, because I have done nothing BUT BGR since I was level 8, with a few buffs and other little side trips along the way.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
15% per hour soloing is pretty darned good. When I was your level I think I got 13%/hour.
PS - I shall help you out as soon as I stop getting hit with tests and CS projects :P
Check ant farm on a crash later in the evenings. After midnight-1am few people do it so you stand a better chance. I know most people who do it give the crystals away anyways or teach newbies the quest. It's also a damn fine place to kill neutral ants to fix your alignment, so more people go there. Such is life. It's not really much worse then trying for yeti boots in IC and at given times of the night I've seen jot done faster than ant farm.
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