Tiamat

Archive of the Sojourn3 Gameplay Discussion Forum.
Jurdex
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Tiamat

Postby Jurdex » Wed Apr 10, 2002 2:31 am

What is the status of Tiamat?

When will she be balanced and ready to be assaulted once more?

Dornax
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Postby Yayaril » Wed Apr 10, 2002 5:15 am

She's still recuperating from all those holes I put in her!


Yayaril
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Postby Jurdex » Wed Apr 10, 2002 6:40 am

This coming from the guy who hides underneath the table during a bar brawl and at the end comes out and claims victory!

Dornax
Jurdex

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"Est Sularus Oth Mithas"
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Postby Nilan » Wed Apr 10, 2002 6:44 am

"Est Sularus Oth Mithas"
"My Honor is My Life"

Is that the Impras Motto? A pathetic paladin named Brightblade uttered those same words....he is dead now...in a cold grave.

You need a better hero

*whistle*

Nilan
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Postby Jurdex » Wed Apr 10, 2002 6:53 am

The motto the great King Imphras instilled in every one of us is tolerance, teamwork and diligent execution.

Drow, I warn thee, your chances of receiving the former wear thinner by the moment and your opportunity to meet the latter increases as we speak!

Dornax
Jurdex

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"Est Sularus Oth Mithas"
"My Honor is My Life"
Nilan
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Postby Nilan » Wed Apr 10, 2002 8:12 am

Me... receive tolerance!!! At your hand, the hand of your followers, or at the mighty hand of your dead King??? Surely you jest.

You offer me nothing, for you can not make good on that offer of "tolerence". In truth I have lost nothing by scoffing at this "tolerence" you speak of.

I have seen and felt what you an your followers have offered me, and it is far from this word "tolerence" you speak of.

You speak of diligent execution....Come now, Leader of Impras, lies do not become us...speak plainly.

I am one who will not kneel to your pathetic dead king...I will not surrender what I believe in to suit the masses.

If this entitles me to a "diligent execution"... then so be it. But not you, nor your pathetic band, nor even King Impras himself will take my honor or my beliefs from me. I will fight you every step of the way if I must...but I will have retribution for wrongs done to myself and my people.....


Remember, surface worlder....

l'ilythiiri zhal plynn rath vel'bol zhahus plynnet dal mina.

tangis' nin ussta keeshe dritalk l'vlos d'shinduago le'i ussta lodias orn dro'xun

Nilan

-ShadowStalker- Drow Assassin
Jurdex
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Postby Jurdex » Wed Apr 10, 2002 9:32 am

Once again ye have a mighty sharp tongue, but I still have not seen the egde of yer blade.

Ye speak an awful lot for an assassin. Hah. I never did like the quiet types anyway!

As far as tolerance goes, dark elf, ye warrant none in my book. Yer people are a vile blemish to the realms. It amazes me that Elistraee and her followers share the same race as ye. A buncha fairies with dark skin and magick swords.

I say bring it on, dark elf. Ye walk in the shadows as an assassin, aye? Well I say walk in the shadows with me. But watch yer step, lad, the Shadows just might never let ye walk away.

Dornax
Jurdex

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"Est Sularus Oth Mithas"
"My Honor is My Life"
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Postby Ashiwi » Wed Apr 10, 2002 2:13 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jurdex:
<B>This coming from the guy who hides underneath the table during a bar brawl and at the end comes out and claims victory!
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
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Postby Yayaril » Wed Apr 10, 2002 2:28 pm

Who invited Nilan into this thread? We don't have time for his long winded drow speeches!

Yayaril
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Postby Sogg » Wed Apr 10, 2002 2:56 pm

You watch that Nilan. He's always after me moneies. Last night he was following me all night long just waiting for a chance when my back was turned.
I out smarted him. When ever he was around I'd throw a few copper pieces at him. He'd think they were shiny gold or platinum and go diving on the ground. While he was rolling in the dust I waddled away. He's not that smart I tell you.

Sogg.
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Postby Nilan » Wed Apr 10, 2002 5:21 pm

ROFL Sogg,

Now you bring me pastries with nice tastey icing ok? Just like that lil creature Lubble used to bring me. When I'd grab him by the ankles and shake him, lil pastries would fall outta his pockets.

Course yer alil to fat for me to do that Soggy ol'boy.

Nilan
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Postby Lyt » Wed Apr 10, 2002 5:50 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Yayaril:
<B>She's still recuperating from all those holes I put in her!


Yayaril</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What holes? This coming from the guy who refused to wield weapons for most of the zone, and who held statues of Ellestrae (sp?) because he was afraid of dying.


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Postby Teyaha » Wed Apr 10, 2002 7:08 pm

Soggy vs. Captain Crunch, in the arena today!
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Postby Yayaril » Wed Apr 10, 2002 8:43 pm

Okay, this proves it. Lyt's eyes have gone completely out of his head!

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-Yayaril
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Postby taelin » Wed Apr 10, 2002 10:29 pm

Lyt the lich!
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Postby Gormal » Thu Apr 11, 2002 5:27 am

Lyt touched my ass.

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Postby Karikhan » Thu Apr 11, 2002 6:56 am

Lyt is preparing you for boot camp, Gormal :P

Get used to it Image


(snicker)

[This message has been edited by Karikhan (edited 04-11-2002).]
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Postby sok » Fri Apr 12, 2002 7:38 am

Woo! Gormal gonna pick up soap.
Guest

Postby Guest » Sat Apr 13, 2002 8:48 pm

Tiamat is closed until sometime between May 1st and May 15th.

I need time to add sufficient code that will limit the maximum number of people on the mountain to 25. That should make it sufficiently difficult (along with the new upgrades) that unorganized and non-elite groups fail, and so that even the most elite groups have great difficulty and take no less than 8 hours On the mountain (not including Avernus). That makes it a 10-12 hour zone (and thus only doable very rarely)

I also need to wait until we solve the problem of an Evil mass-transit equivalent spell of moonwell (so they can get back up fast enough to Do the zone), and until the zone-limiting code is in, Tia must remain closed. It is my intention she when she opens next, she will require No god intervention in the zone (as it should be).

I would like to thank both good and both evil groups that did her. We learned alot about how both goods and evils tackle the zone, and what changes we needed to make so that she can be balanced against the S3 player population. When she opens again, she will proove to be a great challenge!

Miax
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Postby Malacar » Sat Apr 13, 2002 9:05 pm

Thanks for the update Miax. Image Woot?

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Postby Gort » Mon Apr 15, 2002 2:34 pm

Nice, this plays right into my hands...


*cackles maniacally*


Toplack Frostbear

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Postby kiryan » Sat May 18, 2002 5:47 am

tiamat open yet?
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Postby Izizimmez » Sat May 18, 2002 7:29 am

Just wondering, what class do you think is getting this "Evil mass-transit equivalent spell of moonwell"?
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Postby Sszantiel » Sat May 18, 2002 11:00 am

Liches of course! Who else? Image
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Postby Kifle » Sat May 18, 2002 2:49 pm

BattleChanter Upgrade!

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Postby Zogur » Sat May 18, 2002 7:46 pm

I smell a new illu spell coming up!

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Postby Daz » Sat May 18, 2002 9:13 pm

haven't squids always been the evil counterpart of druids? (at least since their introduction)

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Postby Zoldren » Sat May 18, 2002 10:01 pm

druids got 1 spell group transit
evils got 1 "spell" /person group transit Image
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Postby kiryan » Sun May 19, 2002 12:20 am

shrug i dont know why we just dont forget about a evil mass transit system and just make us use multiple squids. the only problem i can see is consent for shift target.

we'd need one person for each squid sitting at tapestry (or some coordinated triggers and aliases). or if you made the room before tia shiftable the !fighting spell uppers (enchanters, cleric) could consent extra squids for shift. the 10 room walk from tapestry to tia has no impact on the fight. you would of course need to leave the tapestry room shiftable so we can actually do the part leading up to tia fight.

its not like there isnt a squid only belt there. 2 or 3 squids shifting is going to be faster than moonwell (unless the chant has changed). only consideration is if 10 people died at the exact same time which i dont actually remember happening at any point on the mountain let alone while we were doing tia.
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Postby Jurdex » Sun May 19, 2002 1:43 am

Its not like when everyone dies they appear at the fountain in WD so all 30 people can enter 1 well. Let's not let a debate of goodie versus evil evolve here. If the evils get a moonwell type spell, then the squid belt should be druidable. No?

Dornax
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Postby Glorishan » Sun May 19, 2002 3:06 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jurdex:
<B>Its not like when everyone dies they appear at the fountain in WD so all 30 people can enter 1 well. Let's not let a debate of goodie versus evil evolve here. If the evils get a moonwell type spell, then the squid belt should be druidable. No?

Dornax
Jurdex

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed 100%

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Postby Gromikazer » Sun May 19, 2002 4:51 am

And then what do evils get to replace the lathander disk which is useless to us?

Evils end up in LOTS of hometowns many with no way to exit and run to a central location. Dornax.. please pretend you can't have all goodies meet at 2 places. Evils on the other hand have to have 4-5 places to meet.

Evils need a mass teleport spell REGARDLESS of tiamat.

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Postby Jurdex » Sun May 19, 2002 5:07 am

Uh, the lathander disk is generally useless to goodies too. There are other ways to get rejuv'd now for paladins/rangers. Don't try to equate squid belt with the lathander disk.

Evils have done tia before with moonwell and have survived wipes without it, shrugs. I don't play evil so I don't know what is fair or not. What I do know is the belt shouldn't remain squid only if in fact a moonwell type spell is implemented for tia for evils. Makes sense to me.

Dornax
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Postby Treladian » Sun May 19, 2002 5:10 am

Shift works off of of prime too while moonwell doesn't. It's an imperfect analogy really, especially with gate/fold now available for mass transport.

Oh, and disc is really useless with other ways for me to get rejuved. I can get aged much faster than we can go back to Tia, I'm not gonna wait around for a pink disc to fix it.

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[This message has been edited by Treladian (edited 05-19-2002).]
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Postby Guest » Sun May 19, 2002 9:00 am

The squid belt is being changed to accomadate a good race class actually, just for the record.

-G

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Postby Izizimmez » Sun May 19, 2002 5:58 pm

Well anyways, it seems the mass-transit evil spell/skill is being worked on no matter what we say.
I was just thinking that it couldn't go to any class that a goodie can be also because obviously that would make druids less valuable. That only leaves psionicist. Plus if you gave it to any other evil it would make squids less desirable. They'd be second-rate nukers, second-rate cabs. And that would make me sad. Image heheh
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Postby Gromikazer » Sun May 19, 2002 7:03 pm

Evils were also the last ones to do tia, when she had the most upgrades. I am telling you now, I think the goodie groups that went before would have a harder if not impossible time of doing her.

Without a moonwell type spell she is impossible, Period.

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Postby Yayaril » Sun May 19, 2002 7:27 pm

She isn't impossible when she is doing 25d25+200 damage per hit? That's what she was doing when we first attacked her. Touk went down like Rylan's mom!

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Postby moritheil » Sun May 19, 2002 7:44 pm

I heard squids are getting 'wormhole' or 'reality breach' or some such.

go squids!

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Postby kiryan » Mon May 20, 2002 12:27 pm

i disagree with impossible without a mass transit spell. you can put 1 squid with 20 pets in each hometown and that would be faster than one weller (till they run out of pets). of course its unfeasible to have several squids and several sitters + 25-30 people to actually kill.

as for a new squid skill, neat so hows this going to work, sit on mountain and breah/hole targets? explain to me how they going to feed while sitting on mountain? what will they do when they run out of pets assuming they bring pets there? or you going to make the mana cost so low its insignificant? i dont see how this kind of spell can be worked into a good solution.

why do evils need a mass transit system? im sure tiamat can be tweaked to make the present shift work. if really necessary, allow us to have more people sit as shift targets or make being a shift target not require consent. the group limit applied to on mountain i believe, so having 2 or 3 squids to support shouldnt be an issue, sitters (for shift target consent) might be.

squid belt...
omg fair? its cool its being changed to allow a good race to use it. doesnt bother me either way, wouldnt have bothered me if it had been druid only initially (although paladin only mightve irritated me heh but thats something all together different). however, i do think its really funny how folks complain about whats fair in a rarely possible zone that only the top eq'd players can go and survive to get the best eq in the game. to add insult to injury, most of the eq is handed out and at the end of the day ya'll claim its not about eq and all about the adventure. omg ymir

as for druid vs squid which is faster, here are my observations.

squid has to lag on shift of about 8 seconds (we actually generally walk via ep to move groups rather than shift). Plus they have to feed every 10-15 shifts which prolly eats up another 40-80 seconds. you could arrange for some food to be at each of the likely shift places but you can only have like 20 pets and there are about 5 locations. not to mention getting pets to each location since you cant shift pets, and yes you could probably get pets (with brains) in towns, but thats dangerous, especially in evil home towns, and still takes time.

well is open for what 20-30 seconds meaning you can get repeat business from the same well, chant time of about 8 seconds and failable, 5 seconds to pray with a good meditate? doesnt require consent to cast and you don't need a target on mountain.

I think they are close in some situations, but in average at something like tia, i think 1 weller will generally be a good deal faster than 1 squid. 2 squids is prolly on average 30% faster than 1 weller, however 2 druids i would suggest is very very fast.


as for good vs evil vs tiamat... this is my analysis, dunno how closely it mirrors truth.

i think the primary reasons why goodies were according to herse less capable when attempting tiamat can be driectly attributed to rangers and anti/paladin.

while anti/paly do tank better, their hps get eaten up quicker due to spells/breath. this gives evil warriors a decided advantage, yes even the trolls. not to mention 3 horses per 3 hours and 1 lay/24 mins which is also effectively nullified in the course of a 12 hour zone and especialyl during a 30 minute fight.

As for rangers, I am pretty sure tia was done pre-sanc spell (that self only 25% dam or whatever). that would've put them in the same boat with pal/anti, dieing quickly to area damage. also, their damage is still less than rogues according to what i read on the boards, and this assumes they were able to use archery on tia (no missile shield).

so in actuality, a same size goody group containing a few paladins/antis/rangers is probably underpowered in comparison to evils by at least 3 men at the time of the trips. at present, i dunno how things would stack up. rangers got some help with area dam and missile shield, but paladins/anti still going to die far more often than a troll/ogre and do less dam than a rogue. they are bastard children and could end up not being wanted at tiamat once it becomes harder.

of course i could be very wrong. paladins seemed to have had amazing luck living and tanking at tia in soj/toril, but of course that was an entirely different fight and saves could've made a lot of difference as well as good pendant users.

[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 05-20-2002).]

[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 05-20-2002).]
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Postby Ilshadrial » Mon May 20, 2002 12:39 pm

To say that "umm without moonwell Tiamat is not doable" is about the most lame thing I have heard all year.

You do not need moonwell to kill tiamat, and Tiamat is by far more easier this incantation then in previous wipes, the shear fact she3 does not PWK 3 people every few rounds sums that argument nicely.

I have played an evil before, and I have killed Tiamat several times as Vhoc, and we had no need for a moonwell type spell, our squids were adept at transporting people...

Besides, if a wormhole type spell goes in affect, lets just make sure it is limited to Prime plane only, then you can have your moonwell spell, but also lets make sure that !teleport rooms block it.

Kevin

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Postby Sylvos » Mon May 20, 2002 6:41 pm

Just semantics, but Nature's Blessing doesn't reduce breath damage, just spell. Image

Sylvos
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Postby Izizimmez » Mon May 20, 2002 7:10 pm

I don't get it. The goodies have a moonwell spell. Forget Tiamat, why is it such a big deal to give the evils one?

Oh, and about needing to drain all the time. We don't need slaves and food in every place we might need to shift. My meditate skill is only at 71 and I can regen 2psp per second. I'm sure at higher levels it wouldn't be that hard to 'mem' a shift real quick. Or whatever skill we might have...
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Postby Ilshadrial » Tue May 21, 2002 11:17 am

Great idea! Get rid of shift and give evils a prime only moonwell type spell. Love it!

*wink*

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Postby kiryan » Tue May 21, 2002 1:08 pm

why is it a big deal for evils not to have a moon well like spell? jeez do we need to be carbon copies?
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Postby Baikalisan » Tue May 21, 2002 5:01 pm

oh stop fuggin crying about not having a 'moonwell' for evils.. we've survived many years w/out it and will survive many more im sure.

Maybe they should take away all portal type spells and make ppl learn how to fuggin WALK.

That is all, you may go.

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Postby moritheil » Tue May 21, 2002 7:05 pm

Wanker tells you 'well me'
You tell wanker 'bahahahaha. Image Little man, you have no idea what you just got into. I suggest you run.'

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Postby Verarb » Tue May 21, 2002 9:27 pm

omg! i want shift! ill trade well for shift

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Postby Izizimmez » Wed May 22, 2002 4:22 am

I'm not saying I want well for evils I'm just saying who cares either way?
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Postby Gyrx » Wed May 22, 2002 4:23 am

Ilshad, you are generally very informed on the topics you comment on, but when it comes to this, IMO, you are too accustomed to sojourn several years ago.

The new Tiamat should NOT be compared to the old Tiamat. The o

Miax was there with us on the second run, even he said that it would have been impossible without a moonwell-type ability.

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peACe oUt
laterZ
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[This message has been edited by Gyrx (edited 05-22-2002).]

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