Tanking question...

[Zen]

There really isn't a good forum for class questions, so I guess this belongs here. I have a question for all my fellow tanks out there, especially those more experienced than I. Touk, Jhorr and Cherzra respond please!

The question I need some input on is when your main tank, should you rescue other tank/rescuer types and to what extent?

Myself I have been taking the stance that as the main tank it is my job to get between my group and danger, and that all other rescuers are basicly there to buy me time to do that, IE rescue while I am lagged etc. In order to accomplish this, I have gotten into the habit of rescuing rangers and tanks with smaller hps and levels. Generally I have used the guildline that anyone <650 hps needs to be rescued. And even if I'm main tank I make sure that there are people I don't rescue unless I have to, the MT needs rescuing once in a while.

This has come up a few times when those rescued tanks start complaining about the lag when rescued, I have even been accused of pkill by lagging out another rescuer.

Up until now, I have operated under the assumption that it is easier and better for the mobs to be engaged on a single tank whenever possible. I still think this is the case in most situations, but I'm fishing for some input on this.

-Lorgan

PS. If you want to tank ::cough:: wear hps.

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The Lord of the Iron Wastes holds his hammer high in the air, shouting a torment... 'Weak fools!'

[Gromikazer]

No one tank can ever tank all the mobs without having some problems. It's one thing to rescue rangers etc. but don't rescue other TANKS unless they are low (ph/awful) hps imo. It actually works out better with a couple tanks so the damage is being spread.

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Gromikazer Terrorforge -Veldruk- Orbdrin D'oloth

[Malacar]

When I chant and tank, I try to figure out who the primary rescuers are.

I usually pick two. I try to cover others as I have spells, but those two I select usually make the brunt of my work.

One can never cover it all, and 3 is too much to keep track of.

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Malacar - omg ymir!

[Mikayla]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Malacar:
<B>When I chant and tank, I try to figure out who the primary rescuers are.

I usually pick two. I try to cover others as I have spells, but those two I select usually make the brunt of my work.

One can never cover it all, and 3 is too much to keep track of.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


come on mal i thought you was da bomb, purple ranger

i used to cover 3 and 4 people at a time when i was clericing but now i love being a tank, well as best as palies can be



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Her Royal Bitchness Eye Aeturnum

[Malacar]

Covering 3-4 targets with heals is probably a little easier than with dscales, and the horde of other spells enchanters have to use (which incidentally is one of the reasons why I stopped playing Malacar).

I still stone tertiary and quaterinary targets, but I reserve dragonscales for the primary two tanks.

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Malacar - omg ymir!

[cherzra]

It really depends on the other warriors and the fight... if they have low hitpoints, are lower level, aren't wearing the proper saves and AC equipment or are not spelled up I'll rescue them. If it's another decked level 50 who is also spelled up, I'll usually leave them tank until they hit nasty wounds. Damage seems to increase proportionally to the tank's condition so if you wait much longer they'll be dead. For most fights I prefer only 1 tank, but 2 or 3 works fine for rooms with a lot of tough mobs. There's no general rule, deciding who to rescue and who not is something you'll learn to do intuitively

[Mikayla]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Malacar:
<B>Covering 3-4 targets with heals is probably a little easier than with dscales, and the horde of other spells enchanters have to use (which incidentally is one of the reasons why I stopped playing Malacar).

I still stone tertiary and quaterinary targets, but I reserve dragonscales for the primary two tanks.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

mal i was teasing you bro



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Her Royal Bitchness Eye Aeturnum

[Malacar]

I know.. Just touchy is all.

A class I used to love is now relegated to being referred to as 'spellbitches', and is truly the most frightfully annoying class to play. Yes, you can argue til you're blue that they are powerful, and needed etc... Doesn't change the fact that I have carpal tunnel, my wrists ache after 15 minutes of playing malacar, and no amount of triggers or aliases can help me with that. And I am no guru with zmud, so I make do with what I got and learn.

Back to tanking... I don't wanna hijack this thread.

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Malacar - omg ymir!

[torkur]

I said that to ya in jot only because you rescued Tokon at 1k hp with scales and the clerics were tanking a couple rounds, Lorgan.

I've found as MT and secondary that small fights (1,2,3 mobs) most of the time it doesn't matter who tanks if the tank is decent and you're both spelled, rescue as you like. The exception being if they're switch happy mobs like jot trolls/frost giants, they always tend to switch when you rescue the other tank, and then a caster tanks a round when you're both in lag.

Obviously, if the other tank is at few wounds/nasty or so rescuing is good, but most lvl 44+ tanks with 600+ hp natural seem to do fine in the groups I've been in.

I've also found on bigger fights (ex: 2nd gatehouse), 9/10 of the time the mobs are switching so often that they don't stay on you anyways, so unless you see the other tank getting whomped, it's better to beat them to the next rescue and take a mob off them than to lag you both by rescuing.

I might be wrong, but that's what I've been using for criteria.

[Selias]

Well when I was in my chanting prime, I preferred to only have 1 tank... it made glancing/respelling a lot easier for me. Definitly rescue rangers though. They can tank in a pinch if they're rescuing, but most of the time the stone skin that I'd put on them only lasts 2 rounds.

Just keep in mind that the more tanks there are tanking mobs, the thinner the heals/dscales/etc. will be. All in all, I'm an adovocate of the main tank rescuing everyone he's able to rescue.

[Vahok]

My two copper.

First, I hope I am a decent main tank or secondary tank. I try not to rescue the main tank until he is nasty wounds. That is give or take, unless he is unscaled, etc. However, depending on the size of the group, I try and pull a couple mobs off the main tank. If there are enough stoners, healers to handle splitting the work load. But with those mad switching mobs, usually that isn't needed.

Second, I think tanks need to figure out how to work together well. Sadly, that means trial and error. Probably, when I first grouped with my regular co-tank companions, we were not in sync with each other. But now, I can feel the flow of the fight, and adjust myself to the sitution. We all have bad mudding days, where everything goes wrong, so be nice to your tanks. Likewise, be nice to healers, stoners, etc. because they have those days too

Lastly, don't be afraid to send me a tell if you think I'm doing something wrong. Hey, I'm human, and do make a ton of mistakes, so guide me. Maybe I have a reason why I'm not rescuing you, maybe I spilled a drink. Never hurts to send me a tell. Dunno, just kinda musing here.....

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Meatshield

[Gavry]

I know I'm a sucky paladin, and with all the twinking thats gone on with our class over the last 6 months I'm probably in no position to comment on being a 'Tank' as such. hehe

Here are my opinions none the less.

(1) If there are only 3 or 4 mobs that your up against rescue everyone, but never have triggers to rescue tanks. If 2 mobs switch at once and you rescue a tank before a caster/rogue thas stupid. I will always make sure all non-tanks are rescued before I worry about tanks.

(2) For big fights, gatehouses and the such, you really need to spread the load, but again, not too thinly. As I've never played a healer/scaler before I'm not talking from experience but I'd assume it'd be a bitch to worry about more than 3 tanks when it come to keeping them alive. Make sure you constantly glance the other tanks and rescue them if they are getting knocked down too much. Better to have 5 mobs on you and keep another tank alive for that extra round thats needed for the full heal to come off.

(3) Before the zone starts make sure all the tanks know what the score is, who is primary, and it what situations they should rescue. There is nothing worse than a non-primary tank rescuing the primary and then dieing. That happens way too much.

Thats my words of wisdom. And ya better listen to em, at 110 years old Gavry has had a fair bit of experience out there as a tank class. hehe

Gavry

[Daz]

I never auto rescue warriors, for any reason. Paladin level > me, does not get rescued either. Anyone else - unless the leader says otherwise - I am between you and the nasties. If ALL the mobs are blinded/not switching, and there are other warriors tankin - I glance at the other tanks and will rescue if they are in danger, but I do it manually.

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Gormal group-says 'shut up before i stab you in the face with my cock'

[Gerad]

I dont feel like finding a thread so I think ill just toss this here. (sorry for hijacking)

Paladins are supposed to be not as good a tank as a strait warrior.

What if we add some code to make it so paladin tanking 1 mob > warrior tanking 1 mob,
and paladin tanking several mobs < warrior tanking several mobs?

Just an idea, I really dont know the ins and outs of tanking (never played one this wipe)

-g

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Auril tells you 'Yes, we're plotting the destruction of all that is holy - and unholy, too. Just to be thorough.'

[Gort]

Touk, Gavry, and Daz pretty well covered it.

For the big fights, that's what us ghealers are around for, to keep a bit o healin on Everyone.

one memo to tanks, Toplack is a great name to put high up on the rescue list.... hehe

Thanks!

Toplack

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[thanuk]

Your all wrong. The most important job of a warrior, in any zone, in any fight, is to hitall.

Having said this, this is who you should rescue.
Small fight 3 mobs or less--
rescue the casters first. If the other warrior is tanking and has been so for more than 2 rounds, don't rescue him. He is gonna be getting the spells from the casters because he has been tanking, so you are just adding another mob to yourself when your spells are about to run out.

Medium fight 4-6 mobs
again, casters always have priority over melee for rescues. This is the situation where you really want the main tank rescuing the secondary tank. When spells fall against 4-6 mobs, the hits start to pile up fast enough that if you got 2 tanks tanking 3 mobs each and one enchanter, one of the tanks is going to die. Do your best if you are MT to keep all the mobs on your, secondary tank should rescue as much as possible, but expect the MT to be pulling mobs off you constantly. If because of switches and whatever will happen during the fight, the 2ndary tank ends up with 5/6 mobs on him, then let the 2ndary tank become the MT for the rest of teh fight. Its just easier that way.

Large fights 6+ mobs, gatehouses.
Case by case basis. I personally prefer to keep all the mobs on the main tank in this fight also, but again it depends on the situation, this is not always possible, I.E. scorps kings fight, theres no way 1 person could tank the whole thing. When it is possible for 1 tank to take all the mobs, do this the same way as medium fights. If you need to spread out damage, then rescue off the main tank. Try to have good timing, like right when the fight starts rescue once, right after the tank rescues someone else rescue again...keep the lag to a minimum, so you aren't leaving the invoker there to die while your saving the MT.

The only exception to this rule is paladins. I allow paladins to tank as much as they want, as often as they want, because i like to watch paladins die.



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Thanuk Pantherclaw

[Malacar]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by thanuk:
<B>
The only exception to this rule is paladins. I allow paladins to tank as much as they want, as often as they want, because i like to watch paladins die.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Amen, brutha.

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Malacar - omg ymir!

[Rellanor]

Bah main rule should be use as few tanks as possable as a chanter if I spell up 1 tank I keep stones/scales very tight add a second I'm still ok add a 3rd and it gets ugly couse I'm casting 3 stones then gotta mem but before I can the first one dropped so eventially I'm out of stones and then you are out of tanks.

Just the bitching of an enchanter take it for what it's worth. Boboloppe

[Xebes]

As an enchanter, I vastly prefer 4-5 tank groups. *wink* It's _not_ that hard, guys.

(note: if ya keep tanks blurred, you have enough time to mem all the stones you want, otherwise you're screwed in many cases)

Heh, if the group doesn't have at least 3 tanks I get bored!



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-<(#)>- Xebes makes your heart start to race REAL FAST!