Haste spell

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Malacar
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Haste spell

Postby Malacar » Mon Sep 16, 2002 4:21 pm

Can we please see the duration of this spell upped to around 5 minutes a shot?

That or add a new 9th circle spell that is called 'Improved Haste', and have it last 2-3x longer than haste.

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Postby Daz » Mon Sep 16, 2002 4:40 pm

drool

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Postby Corth » Mon Sep 16, 2002 4:51 pm

That would make melee classes too powerful!

/sarcasm

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Postby Daz » Mon Sep 16, 2002 5:19 pm

only if you let us cast it Image

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Postby Malacar » Tue Sep 17, 2002 2:46 am

bump

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Postby Kifle » Tue Sep 17, 2002 5:29 am

Yeah right! Lets not work forward here malacar, take haste out!

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Postby kiryan » Tue Sep 17, 2002 7:21 am

theres a continuous haste spell in the game.

group a bard

ghosts don't run out of haste

group a necro

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Postby Malacar » Tue Sep 17, 2002 2:46 pm

You fail to see my point.

Yes, bring a bard. Their songs don't always bring forth a haste, and when they do, if a mage gets engaged, they get riposted twice as often.

Bring a necro. Ok, good point, the only problem is their haste lasts like 30 seconds. Same with their pets.

My advocation for a longer duration won't unbalance a game, will help melee classes a bit, and will make for less hassle. That's all I was asking for. If you don't agree with it, don't heckle, make valid points why you disagree.

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Postby Azralek Silvermist » Tue Sep 17, 2002 5:24 pm

Melee classes are no longer the main damage dealers longer haste wont make the uber powerful but will at least help make them compettive damage dealers compared with the casters and save us enchanters having to cast as often. I have had some fights where i had to rehaste hitters twice during the fight which is seriously irritating.

Just my 2 pence cause i can't really afford to give any more

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Postby moritheil » Tue Sep 17, 2002 8:38 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Malacar:
<B>Bring a necro. Ok, good point, the only problem is their haste lasts like 30 seconds. Same with their pets.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rofl, I know you mean wraith haste is weak, but it's also true that wraiths themselves last < 30 seconds in zone. Image

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Postby celara » Tue Sep 17, 2002 11:51 pm

p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p-please?

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Postby Todrael » Wed Sep 18, 2002 12:19 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by moritheil:
Rofl, I know you mean wraith haste is weak, but it's also true that wraiths themselves last < 30 seconds in zone. Image</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Stop posting about the class until you learn more about it.

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Postby Daz » Wed Sep 18, 2002 1:52 am

wraiths are badass.
i had a 50 necro at one point, some time ago.

things have changed, but i STILL remember the hell that i could unleash. a SMART necro/lich is the most powerful single class in the game, with a cleric or shaman coming second to that. :P

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Postby Corth » Wed Sep 18, 2002 3:04 am

In my experience necros/liches have been more of a drag on a group than a benefit. The big problem I've run into is taking the time to secure corpses and then keeping pets alive. Of course, I haven't grouped with many necros and I'll be honest and say I dont really have a good knowledge of the class. Perhaps it would work better if i altered the way I lead, or if I grouped with other necros. It certainly seems odd to me that evils swear by their necros and goodies hardly ever use them in groups. Someone is missing something here Image

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Postby kiryan » Wed Sep 18, 2002 3:31 am

ghost/wraith haste/globe lasts 3 minutes like enchanters i am fairly sure. its definitely not 30 seconds. when the necro/lich casts haste or globe himself it lasts 30 seconds...

nod corth, its like anything, learn to play your class well and everything is smoother. a big part of necro/lich is knowing how to keep your pets alive (ie when to bring them to a fight) and which spells to cast in which fights (resistances/effects). a clever experienced lich is an unbelievable asset.

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Postby Malacar » Wed Sep 18, 2002 3:35 am

I seriously doubt they last as long as enchanter hastes, and if they do, that's horribly broken.


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Postby Guest » Wed Sep 18, 2002 5:52 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Corth:
<B>In my experience necros/liches have been more of a drag on a group than a benefit. The big problem I've run into is taking the time to secure corpses and then keeping pets alive. Of course, I haven't grouped with many necros and I'll be honest and say I dont really have a good knowledge of the class. Perhaps it would work better if i altered the way I lead, or if I grouped with other necros. It certainly seems odd to me that evils swear by their necros and goodies hardly ever use them in groups. Someone is missing something here Image

Corth

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

To clarify some things:

1. A 50th level necro now can raise 99% of the corpses that a group would create in the course of a zone, this wasn't the case before the necro revamp.

2. High-end necro pets have magic resistance now, and wraiths and ghosts both have alot more hit points than wraiths did before the revamp (though they don't have vamp touch). Ghosts in particular are highly magic resistant, and die quite infrequently, especially compared to the old pets that would poof at the drop of a hat.

I think those are the key things that changed, just thought someone should point them out directly.
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Postby Corth » Wed Sep 18, 2002 6:51 am

Nods Iyachtu. Like I said in the post, I don't know much about the class at all. I also don't recall grouping with a necro more than a couple of times since the changes were put in. With an old fart mudder like myself sometimes it takes a while to digest some changes. Thanks for pointing them out. Image

Corth

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Postby Yayaril » Wed Sep 18, 2002 8:10 am

Actually, Kiryan- enchanter globe lasts about 5 minutes.

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Postby Todrael » Wed Sep 18, 2002 2:18 pm

If you don't think necros/liches are worth a group slot, you haven't grouped with me.

Back on topic, I think haste requires a duration increase. Have said so many times.

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Postby Chandigar2 » Wed Sep 18, 2002 7:26 pm

Well, one thing that maybe could be looked into is just freakin fix dopplegangers instead of increasing haste rates. Dopples are fragile enough as it is (ie can't hit shielded mobs, area spells kill them) do they have to be totally crap for damage too?

Fixing doppleganger damage would alleviate some of the haste burden on enchanters as well as improving the role of hitters as have been requested in previous threads.

Someone please think about this option.
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Postby Disoputlip » Wed Sep 18, 2002 8:13 pm

If haste wasn't used then it could be upped.

But players are using it, therefore its ok.

/D
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Postby Malacar » Wed Sep 18, 2002 8:25 pm

I beg to differ.

Ask anyone I group with how much I don't haste because it's so f***ing annoying.

So please... Speak for yourself. Image

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Postby thanuk » Wed Sep 18, 2002 10:33 pm

Haste is definately too short...and as for the other possible solutions
1. Bring a bard. Damn real! Bards are nice with their new upgrades, but you try convincing YOUR leader of it. Most people refuse to believe bards are useful, so for the highend zones they prefer to fill the spot a bard would take with a cleric,shaman, or something. Also, if i have a bard in my group, you can be damn sure he will be singing song of defense, as a tank that blocks 75% of the attacks against them is a hell of a lot more important than the enchanter staving off his CTC by not having to haste the hitters.
2. Bring a necro/lich
Many problems here..Sure they can haste the players before the fight, but again the pets will do more damage casting offense than the damage that will be dealt by the hitter with an extra attack, it just isn't worth getting mid-battle haste off the necro or his pets.
Also i personally avoid using necros sometimes for targetting reasons. If you run into a mob who has raised its own pets, it is a nuisance to have to sit there and attack 1.wraith 2.wraith 3.wraith etc until you figure out which one belongs to the mob. Also necros are now raising mobs from inside the zone they are doing, and when that zone is one that has mob entry, it throws the players off if they are not used to it. seeing a wraith of a fire giant warrior walking in looks the same as the fire giant warrior itself at a quick glance, which is usually about how much time it takes for the invoker to die Image Maybe if the undead of the necro didnt have the same ansi as the living mobs this would be easier. Also alot of weird stuff is aggro to liches, sometimes quest mobs, sometimes mobs you are used to walking right passed, and this also creates problems. I am not saying liches/necros aren't uber powerful or useful, because they are, but most of the time you can do fine without them, and the subtle little annoyances are enough to keep them out of the group, but back to haste, which is the topic at hand.
Giving haste the same duration as some of the other enchantment spells would not be a rediculous change, i think it would more save the enchanters some time and frustration, as playing an enchanter seems from the outside a very frustrating class to play, what with all us other people whining at you for spells all the time. The only thing a longer haste duration would really change is to cut chanters a little slack, as it would be 1 less spell they have to worry about casting while they are dscaling/globing/tanks stoning and blurring and flying the group etcetcetc. I seriously doubt with the amount of hps most highlevel mobs have and the amount of damage done by casters the extra 300 damage a round the haste spells adds from 4 hitters is going to seperate all-out victory from a total spank.


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Postby Yayaril » Wed Sep 18, 2002 10:42 pm

You forget, Thanuk, that if a necromancer is in the group- the invoker won't be the one targetted by mobs entering the room. The wraith will be.

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Postby Tanji Smanji » Wed Sep 18, 2002 10:48 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Yayaril:
<B>You forget, Thanuk, that if a necromancer is in the group- the invoker won't be the one targetted by mobs entering the room. The wraith will be.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Or, if yer lucky, the necromancer!
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Postby Yayaril » Thu Sep 19, 2002 1:12 am

Mobs have this weird peculiarity where they always attack the undead pets first. It's pretty strange.

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Postby kiryan » Thu Sep 19, 2002 4:15 am

so what your saying is that even if you were to bring a bard to a group, having him sing defensive song is more important than haste.

so what your saying is even when there are numerous options to provide haste to hitters we ignore them in deference to other abilities friends that play !haste classes or simply being to busy to be bothered with hasting then ask the gods to make it easier to get haste and give it longer duration then bitch about zones being to easy.

what we have here is a difference of opinion between what the melee wants and what the rest of the group wants and between evils and goods. There are plenty of ways to get haste, but the seemingly majority of good players have basically said its not important or not worth my time or group slot and the evil players say its worth it and we find ways to haste our hitters.

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Postby Malacar » Thu Sep 19, 2002 4:49 am

So you're saying goodies are lazy?

I'm gettin kinda irked. This is about haste, not good/evil. Leave that out of it.

What -I- am saying is it is fucking annoying for an ENCHANTER to haste repeatedly. Stop trying to overanalyze it.

Correction: What -I- am saying. Not they. I can't speak for anyone but me.

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[This message has been edited by Malacar (edited 09-19-2002).]
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Postby gruldo » Thu Sep 19, 2002 4:53 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Corth:
<B>In my experience necros/liches have been more of a drag on a group than a benefit. The big problem I've run into is taking the time to secure corpses and then keeping pets alive. Of course, I haven't grouped with many necros and I'll be honest and say I dont really have a good knowledge of the class. Perhaps it would work better if i altered the way I lead, or if I grouped with other necros. It certainly seems odd to me that evils swear by their necros and goodies hardly ever use them in groups. Someone is missing something here Image

Corth

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

bahh i didn't read everything you said.. anyways if you guys aren't utilizing your necros topside you're missing out, they add quite a bit to a group.

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Postby Xisiqomelir » Thu Sep 19, 2002 7:17 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Malacar:
<B>

What -I- am saying is it is fucking annoying for an ENCHANTER to haste repeatedly.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Caz's point is still valid though. Enchanters need not be the ones repeatedly hasting because there are other avenues of obtaining haste. If your groups are overtaxing you in this regard perhaps the composition of those groups need adjusting to include those other avenues?

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Postby Ragorn » Thu Sep 19, 2002 7:33 am

The question at hand is not "how can we alter our group setup to bring more hasters." This is not a thread about necros. It's not a thread about goodies or evils being morally superior, and it's not about which bard song is best.

The question is:

Should haste duration be increased?

If you have a balance issue why the duration of haste should NOT be increased, state it. If you're going to stand on the sidelines and pick and snipe at the people posting in this thread, trying to insinuate they aren't playing correctly or bringing the right classes, then please just stfu and move on.

If you have FACTS, state them. Nobody cares about OPTIONS for dealing with crappy haste duration. If the problem is "haste is too short," then the problem is NOT going to be fixed by "bring more necros" and it's fucking stupid to even suggest something like that. Nobody on the mud sits 3w with a group of 14 and says "oh boy, only 2 enchanters, the rangers aren't going to get hasted, I better pick up a necro."

FACT: Melee damage is fucking TRIVIAL compared to spell damage in the course of most battles.

FACT: Increasing haste duration would increase melee damage by giving hitters those extra hits for the entire battle, not just the first half.

FACT: Some casters, like Malacar, do not even bother to cast haste. Some believe the bonus hitter damage for half a combat is not worth the prep time.

There are my facts, here comes my opinion.

OPINION: Increasing haste duration would do nothing to unbalance melee classes, since melee classes are woefully undergunned right now.

OPINION: Haste duration has needed an increase for years.

OPINION: Taking steps to ensure that every hitter is hasted all the way through every combat would be a very good first step in swinging the hitter/caster pendulum back toward the middle... whether that means with longer spell durations and/or giving haste to Rangers and Dires. Maybe someone up there should take another serious look at perm haste items.

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Postby Malacar » Thu Sep 19, 2002 7:41 am

Thank you Ragorn. You said that infinitely better than I could. *bow*

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Postby Jurdex » Thu Sep 19, 2002 8:06 am

The only thing perm-haste items did was make exping easier, really.

At the beginning of Soj3, Vit was given an extended durations for clerics. It was made a healing spell and falls under our spec. So shouldn't by the same logic haste be given an extended duration as it falls under the spec of an enchanter?

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Postby kiryan » Thu Sep 19, 2002 12:24 pm

The question at hand is not "how can we alter our group setup to bring more hasters." This is not a thread about necros. It's not a thread about goodies or evils being morally superior, and it's not about which bard song is best.
The question is:

Should haste duration be increased?

I would put it this way. should haste duration be increased when there are numerous great ways to acquire it that are ignored. Should we increase absolute player damage output by making haste a de facto standard, or leaving it as is which is a trade off between casting offense or other defensive spells. Should we cater to people that want to bring 9 hitters and expect one enc to haste globe scale blur them all or do we tell them you need a different group composition to get the spells you want?

FACT: Melee damage is fucking TRIVIAL compared to spell damage in the course of most battles.

nice qualifier on your fact. rogues and Archery does amazing melee damage in single mob fights as a matter of fact rogue or archery > invoker as far as non stop killing goes. You move through a zone a lot faster if you have 2 or 3 hitters and a leash on your casters. Do you even remember the days of group leader gsays conserve your spells? Leaders have sacrificed speed for caster based damage and safety by meming after nearly every fight.... and fact is it casters always did more damage in multi mob fights even sorcs and their pitiful areas.

Furthermore, there is absolutely nothing wrong with casters doing way more damage in multi-mob fights. There is a problem when the cost for that damage is trivialized... mem time, chant time, reduced so you cant be bashed, 850 hp mages with scale and displace, warriors with insta rescue triggers. This and that every caster class has been given a bunch of areas. Why on earth do shamans have ancestral fury and soul tempest? Why does every mage class have at least one area spell? If damage is out of balance, you sure as hell wouldn't up melee damage to bring damage back into balance.

Your statement may be a fact but its gota very narrow viewpoint and sure as hell isn't a good justification for a change to haste.


FACT: Increasing haste duration would increase melee damage by giving hitters those extra hits for the entire battle, not just the first half.

What percentage of fights are longer than 5 minutes? the duration of haste at what 3 minutes if haste is wearing out half way through then were talking 5 minute long battles. if you say your players dont time their hastes right and haste is ticking away for 1.5 minutes while a cleric mems all his vits back and the leader dicks around then im not impressed.

FACT: Some casters, like Malacar, do not even bother to cast haste. Some believe the bonus hitter damage for half a combat is not worth the prep time.

This is a fact? getting a bit liberal here with your facts and justifications arent you? how the hell is it relevant whether one vocal dont wanna cast any spells player like malacar doesnt want to cast haste because he doesnt think its worth it? you know what there are some very good shaman that think its stupid to cast their offensive areas in fights (just straight gheal all fight long). Does that make shaman offensive areas pointless? Should we lobby for upgrades to shaman areas because 1 shaman doesnt think its worth casting them?

OPINION: Increasing haste duration would do nothing to unbalance melee classes, since melee classes are woefully undergunned right now.

ok agree. but, i think it would increase absolute player damage output and i dont think that is a good idea. i also think that it takes away a lot of reason to bring a necro/lich to a group and it gives bards a free hand to play defensive song only. Let me ask you this, would giving a 20 minute long haste spell to only necros/lichs and bards make everyone happy? Somehow I don't think so. You guys dont want haste, you want a single enchanter to be able to provide all the defense and haste for any number of hitters.

OPINION: Haste duration has needed an increase for years.

shrug, i remember spec fire sorc haste. i thought spec ench haste was gods gift to the pbase.

OPINION: Taking steps to ensure that every hitter is hasted all the way through every combat would be a very good first step in swinging the hitter/caster pendulum back toward the middle... whether that means with longer spell durations and/or giving haste to Rangers and Dires. Maybe someone up there should take another serious look at perm haste items.

first you assume the pendulum should be in the middle as far as melee and casters are concerned. thats a big assumption. second, you ignore the other way to accomplish this which is reduce absolute caster damage output... in particular absolute caster area damage output.

and, i agree that someone up there should take another serious look at perm haste items if were gonna allow perm invis, perm sneak, and hide items in the game. haste is out of balance and a no go, but we'll put items with effects that are easily twice the twink factor in the game.

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[This message has been edited by kiryan (edited 09-19-2002).]
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Postby kiryan » Thu Sep 19, 2002 12:32 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jurdex:
<B>The only thing perm-haste items did was make exping easier, really.

At the beginning of Soj3, Vit was given an extended durations for clerics. It was made a healing spell and falls under our spec. So shouldn't by the same logic haste be given an extended duration as it falls under the spec of an enchanter?

Dornax
Jurdex

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ench haste > all other haste minus air embodiement. necro/lichs and ele casting haste themselves at like 1-1.5 minutes is what an unsepecialized ench haste is like. (ghosts/wraiths cast haste as a specialized spell and have same duration as enc i believe)

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Postby Xisiqomelir » Thu Sep 19, 2002 1:23 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by kiryan:
<B>Let me ask you this, would giving a 20 minute long haste spell to only necros/lichs and bards make everyone happy? Somehow I don't think so. You guys dont want haste, you want a single enchanter to be able to provide all the defense and haste for any number of hitters.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think I agree.

Ragorn, you say that the only issue is the DURATION of haste. I think your real concern is having people in a hasted condition. It is not being hasted that is really bothering you. You are blaming this upon the duration of the spell, but really, don't you see that Caz and I have a point too?

You are losing hastes because you have maybe 1? 2? hasting classes per group. They cast their hastes on how many hitters that need it? If you brought just ONE more hasting class you would probably see a HUGE difference in the times when you run out of haste in a fight.

I am not trying to flame anyone, or be snide, I think I am making a relevant point. Please consider it.

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[This message has been edited by Xisiqomelir (edited 09-19-2002).]
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Postby Malacar » Thu Sep 19, 2002 4:43 pm

Nearly every group I am in has 2-3 hasting classes. Whether they are necro, enchanter, or elementalist.

9 times out of 10, we enchanters get asked to do hastes, because they last a little bit longer, and these other classes could 'be doing things more productive'. Enchanters job is to buff people up, so I don't find this request to be absurd.

Just because you group one way, and we group another, doesn't mean that our way is wrong, and your way is right.

I didn't even bother to read Kiryan's post. He's stopped using punctuation again.

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Postby thanuk » Thu Sep 19, 2002 7:36 pm

Im glad you feel the need to attack the way i zone, but i hate to break it to you... YOUR WASTING YOUR TIME HASTING YOUR HITTERS!

Your non-stop killing of a single mob theory is cute, but its not so non-stop...the invokers take about as long to remem their offense as the cleric takes for his heals, and the chanter takes for his scales/blurs/everything else to mem, so why bother leashing him?
Also weren't you the one trashing me for not using auto-rescue triggers like 2 weeks ago, and now your saying that they ruin the game?

Haste duration makes the spell useless, i don't bother using it, i don't bother asking for it. My 20 extra attacks before the spells runs out isn't enough, and if your wasting your necro's time making him haste your hitters, then its a wonder he would group with you at all. In it's current duration i find haste to be a waste of time, not worth casting, and im sure that many people agree with me. Giving it longer duration might have it casted more. I could, in effect, change my entire theory of mudding, reorganize every group and the way i play it, and change my entire school of thinking on how to do every zone to ensure that my precious melee damage got their stupid haste spell and did an extra 300 damage a round, or i could ignore the spell, do the zones just fine without it, see if the gods would increase the duration to make it worthwhile. I guess i should've just continued to ignore the spell, at least then i wouldn't have to read flames about the way i zone from someone who thinks increased haste might make the spell so unbelievably unbalanced that it is almost as powerful as the dreaded goodberry. Get off your high horse. Be constructive or be silent.


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Thanuk Pantherclaw
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Postby Adriorn » Thu Sep 19, 2002 9:58 pm

I don't understand what is so DIFFICULT to understand. The question is simple:

Think we can increase haste duration?

If you have to cast the spell more than once in a single fight, there's a problem. Doesn't matter if the group is composed of 26 hasters. If my haste drops while fighting the same fight, there's a problem. It's not a question of RECASTING it, it's a question of it should last LONGER.

Why are we bringing classes into this?
I'm already frustrated enough as it is that haste items are no longer in the game, but why does haste last such a darn short time?

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Postby Malacar » Thu Sep 19, 2002 10:16 pm

Because people expect you to bring necromancers and bards, who apparently don't mind recasting haste every 30 seconds, or whatnot.

*shrug*

I think certain people are just determined to can every single thread that involves haste.

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Postby Todrael » Fri Sep 20, 2002 12:06 am

I have the capacity to keep up to 6 hitters hasted for 100% of a zone with minimal effort. I don't always do this, because I am lazy.

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Postby Aldira » Fri Sep 20, 2002 12:21 am

My group haste rate is only about 60% with master skills, so I don't sing it very often Image Heal, sorcery, and defensive harmony are much better for zoning.
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Postby Ragorn » Fri Sep 20, 2002 3:23 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Todrael:
<B>I have the capacity to keep up to 6 hitters hasted for 100% of a zone with minimal effort. I don't always do this, because I am lazy.

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have the capability to keep 12 people continuously blessed, what's your point?

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Postby Xisiqomelir » Fri Sep 20, 2002 3:55 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ragorn:
<B> I have the capability to keep 12 people continuously blessed, what's your point?
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The point is that if one lich can keep most all of the hitters hasted ALL the time, why do we need an increase in the duration of haste?

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Postby Malacar » Fri Sep 20, 2002 5:52 am

Once again, because not all groups have a lich, let alone one with the skill of Todrael.

I still fail to see what the big deal about a duration increase is. If we were asking for another attack, then I could see the resistance.

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Postby Ragorn » Fri Sep 20, 2002 6:50 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Xisiqomelir:
<B> The point is that if one lich can keep most all of the hitters hasted ALL the time, why do we need an increase in the duration of haste?

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If one ranger can keep the entire group blessed, why do we need Divine Blessing?

If one cleric can keep 5 people protted with all prots, why do we need greater realm of protection?

If one enchanter can keep one tank stoned all the time without a problem, then why do we need dragonscales?

If necros can take the load off enchanters, why do we need time stop?

If one druid can move an entire group with moonwell, why do we need dimensional fold?

Convenience, my friend. Just because it's possible doesn't mean it has to be done the hard way. Nor does it mean someone will always be willing to do it. Doubling haste duration simply makes it more likely that hitters will get hasted and remain hasted for an entire battle.

So far, nobody has given me one reason why that is a bad thing.

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Postby Xisiqomelir » Fri Sep 20, 2002 8:50 am

In the nature of the comparisons you've made, some high-circle upgraded version of haste would make a lot of sense (Like Malacar said at the beginning-*doh* me)

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Postby Jegzed » Fri Sep 20, 2002 9:40 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ragorn:
<B>Convenience, my friend. Just because it's possible doesn't mean it has to be done the hard way. Nor does it mean someone will always be willing to do it. Doubling haste duration simply makes it more likely that hitters will get hasted and remain hasted for an entire battle.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hitters already ARE hasted all the fights, all the time, and a good necro/lich gets hastes up FASTER than a time-stopped enchanter.

If your hitters are not hasted, you can't lead a balanced group properly, and should go back to sit at 3w.




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/Jegzed - Sorcere Master - Crimson Coalition
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Postby Jorus » Fri Sep 20, 2002 10:10 am

Even if haste duration were increased I wouldn't haste significantly more than I do.

Why? Once the combat begins, nine times out of ten I have better things to do, like glance at tanks, re-mem spells, cast prismatic-spray (and don't doubt that pris beats hasting a hitter on mutlti-mob fights).

I haste hitters when I can (eg, if there is a spellup, or someone specifically asks, or if I have been keeping hastes up in general), I rarely haste tanks (about the only time I do is for single-mob, non-globe fights, or some dragons/things that have to die ASAP). I don't stress about it either way.

What WOULD make my life somewhat easier would be if there was some way to tell if a hitter is hasted. But glancing is too spammy already, so I won't suggest that.

As to who should be hasting and when? I'd love it if we had necro's or liches who hasted alot on the good side. But the simple fact is, even when I am grouped with them, I am still finding myself picking up globes, or being bugged for hastes.

Regards,
Jorus

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